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12-13-2012, 04:31 PM
  #276
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The first sign noted that an absolutely green GM might not know what he's doing.

This is going to unfold to giving out generous contracts to the first people signed and then being surprised to find out that theres no capspace at the end of the rainbow to sign crucial players that will expect and command considerable coin.

This is why experience is important people.

You mean like signing Cory Boyd last year?

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12-13-2012, 04:33 PM
  #277
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Tillman's reign here was a disaster, but don't believe everything you read either.
Where there's smoke there's likely some fire. Read about it from one or two disgruntled employees and you can go....meh. Read about it from several sources and something starts to smell. Perhaps you're not as well connected as you think?

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12-13-2012, 04:36 PM
  #278
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But Tillman was doing his job, at least on the surface. He traded RR Rhodes first week into the job and gave him every possible reason he could think of for doing it. As a new CEO coming in, you're not going to undermine your GM in your first week for God's sake, especially after the team went to the playoffs the year before. You let him do his job until you determine that it isn't happening. Tillman's demise didn't happen overnight. It was a series of events.
So what you are saying is it took 19 weeks for Rhodes to figure this out?

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12-13-2012, 04:40 PM
  #279
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Any more on the Cortez to OC here?

Although is that job even open anymore.

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12-13-2012, 05:10 PM
  #280
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Dales was one of the best punters until he got hurt. I can see why they would keep him around.
I can see it, but it makes less sense when you consider the cap hit that Shaw is going to cost us. If he's on 100k, I'd hope he does have more duties.

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12-13-2012, 05:35 PM
  #281
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So what you are saying is it took 19 weeks for Rhodes to figure this out?

If you were appointed CEO of this company and it had made the playoffs the year before after being an also ran the prior 3 years, would start to fire senior executives after a couple weeks?

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12-13-2012, 05:36 PM
  #282
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Any more on the Cortez to OC here?

Although is that job even open anymore.
Didn't look like Cortez knew how to run a team last year, but he's always seemed to run a sound offence. I'd certainly be open to looking at him.

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12-13-2012, 05:41 PM
  #283
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Any more on the Cortez to OC here?

Although is that job even open anymore.
I don't know much about him. Any info on the type of offense he runs?

Does he run the ball consistently? If so, he's hired.

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12-13-2012, 06:01 PM
  #284
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I don't know much about him. Any info on the type of offense he runs?

Does he run the ball consistently? If so, he's hired.

He ran Calgary's offence for years with a variety of quarterbacks and running backs, and had success. Joffrey Reynolds was known to touch the ball now and then under his watch.

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12-13-2012, 07:17 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
Where there's smoke there's likely some fire. Read about it from one or two disgruntled employees and you can go....meh. Read about it from several sources and something starts to smell. Perhaps you're not as well connected as you think?
Its funny that everything you state applies to Reed as well. There was some bad blood already this year. But its just hearsay and should only be taken as such.

But as far as Tillman the "disgruntled employees" are some of the players that were cut from the team this year or last. So some obvious vested interest and want to kickback obviously exist.

One mistake you're making in this, and Money alredy mentioned it, is you're taking whatever Rhodes, Reed, or Hervey is stating now as gospel. I have no idea given the circumstances why you would. Theres more than meets the eye to this.

Its my suspicion(I don't know one way or the other) that we're not getting all the laundry and all the story here. The dynamic could be that Tillman has become an easy scapegoat. Because he's gone.

Its not an agreed statment of fact Tillman wasn't here a lot. Its not an agreed statement of fact he wasn't performing his duties. Its not an agreed statement of fact that he wasn't dilligent enough and filling the job description. It is all hearsay conjecture. In some of your argument you're stating problems as if they are substantiated. They aren't, and if I'm Tillman I've sought legal council by now.

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12-13-2012, 07:26 PM
  #286
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And therein lay a big part of the problem. Tillman is not around now to offer any comment at this time, just as he was never around during the season, forcing Reed to take some of his duties by absentia. If the guy would have spent half the time running the team properly during the season instead of constantly defending the Ray trade, it may have turned out better for him.
We don't know this at all. None of this is factual.


But if the above IS true then taking a year to deal with that situation falls squarely on Rhodes shoulders.

Exactly how helpful is it that Reed, Rhodes, and Hervey are confronting Tillmans performance after the fact. Where was any intervention that could've been helpful DURING Tillmans employment? Was there any? Who knows. WE do know that Rhodes hadn't even put some conditions on Tillman. For instance to approve deals with him. Its asinine really that Rhodes is seen complaining about trading away our first pick because it happened in his watch and apparently long after he had concerns and misgivings about Tillman.

Not everything comes out clean in the wash as the three amigos would have anybody believe. I suspect two of them were a part of the problem.

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12-13-2012, 07:30 PM
  #287
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If you were appointed CEO of this company and it had made the playoffs the year before after being an also ran the prior 3 years, would start to fire senior executives after a couple weeks?
So this sets up the automatic question that if the Eskimos don't suffer a ******** of injuries(and they still made the playoffs anyway) and if they were a better club on the field this year that Tillman would still on the basis of what you're saying be here.

What say the Esks even ended up going on a playoff run? Fact of the matter is the Esks walked tillman off the plank before even finding out how the playoffs unfolded.

So apparently Rhodes did do pretty much what you suggested, just a year later.

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12-13-2012, 09:10 PM
  #288
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Its funny that everything you state applies to Reed as well. There was some bad blood already this year. But its just hearsay and should only be taken as such.

But as far as Tillman the "disgruntled employees" are some of the players that were cut from the team this year or last. So some obvious vested interest and want to kickback obviously exist.

One mistake you're making in this, and Money alredy mentioned it, is you're taking whatever Rhodes, Reed, or Hervey is stating now as gospel. I have no idea given the circumstances why you would. Theres more than meets the eye to this.

Its my suspicion(I don't know one way or the other) that we're not getting all the laundry and all the story here. The dynamic could be that Tillman has become an easy scapegoat. Because he's gone.

Its not an agreed statment of fact Tillman wasn't here a lot. Its not an agreed statement of fact he wasn't performing his duties. Its not an agreed statement of fact that he wasn't dilligent enough and filling the job description. It is all hearsay conjecture. In some of your argument you're stating problems as if they are substantiated. They aren't, and if I'm Tillman I've sought legal council by now.
This is right. There is more to this than has been revealed. ***** being covered and people looking out for their own interests, twisting facts for their gain.

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12-14-2012, 12:58 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
And therein lay a big part of the problem. Tillman is not around now to offer any comment at this time, just as he was never around during the season, forcing Reed to take some of his duties by absentia. If the guy would have spent half the time running the team properly during the season instead of constantly defending the Ray trade, it may have turned out better for him.
Was he around the year before last? When we went to the Western Finals?

Where was all the "not living in Edmonton" talk then?

Where was the "passing off gm responsibilities" to the coach then?

Its hard to say what the "real" story is here.

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12-14-2012, 01:38 AM
  #290
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I like the Hervy/Reed combo and will give them a chance.

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12-14-2012, 08:49 AM
  #291
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Man for a 100k, he better be handling all of the kicking jobs.

David William Naylor ‏@TSNDaveNaylor
Hearing that Grant Shaw's deal with Edm makes him the CFL's only six-figure guy who only performs place-kicking duties.#cfl #Esks

Yeah he absolutely needs to do handle more duties.

This way we clear out some cap space with Dales and make this more better for us. Wonder if we keep McKnight around too.
has it been confirmed he gets over 100K,or is it still just twitter rumor?
I'd be a little upset if it's true, especially if they do keep Dales.
100K for a kicker who wouldn't be doing all three jobs would be a very poor business decision, imo and a poor start for Mr. Hervey.

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12-14-2012, 08:51 AM
  #292
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I can see it, but it makes less sense when you consider the cap hit that Shaw is going to cost us. If he's on 100k, I'd hope he does have more duties.
But what you are saying makes even less since, doesn't it?

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If you were appointed CEO of this company and it had made the playoffs the year before after being an also ran the prior 3 years, would start to fire senior executives after a couple weeks?
It's not after a couple of weeks, why not fire him mid-season when things were bad? There was lot of time to fire him. Ray was dealt Dec of 2011, can't tell me that it took Rhodes until end of October to figure out Tillman wasn't doing his job.
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Didn't look like Cortez knew how to run a team last year, but he's always seemed to run a sound offence. I'd certainly be open to looking at him.
Agreed
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I don't know much about him. Any info on the type of offense he runs?

Does he run the ball consistently? If so, he's hired.
Their game last year was based on Burris so no.

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12-14-2012, 08:57 AM
  #293
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I

But as far as Tillman the "disgruntled employees" are some of the players that were cut from the team this year or last. So some obvious vested interest and want to kickback obviously exist.

Its my suspicion(I don't know one way or the other) that we're not getting all the laundry and all the story here. The dynamic could be that Tillman has become an easy scapegoat. Because he's gone.
Just throwing it out there, but some of these disgruntled employees, are they just disgruntled because they never agreed with Tillman coming in and didn't like him?

Is it really any different than the real world when a GM or Manager gets replaced and people don't like the new hire? I've seen in my industry where a new boss comes in and people don't like his way of thinking and they leave, so why would this be any different?

That and look at the mess there was when DM was here, is it not possible that some of these workers are disgruntled because Tillman had them stepping up because they just weren't cutting it?

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12-14-2012, 09:02 AM
  #294
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This is right. There is more to this than has been revealed. ***** being covered and people looking out for their own interests, twisting facts for their gain.
Shocking

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Was he around the year before last? When we went to the Western Finals?

Where was all the "not living in Edmonton" talk then?

Where was the "passing off gm responsibilities" to the coach then?

Its hard to say what the "real" story is here.
Exactly. What happened that this all of a sudden became an issue this year?
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I like the Hervy/Reed combo and will give them a chance.
My issue is I think they'll get more than a chance. Rhodes likes these guys too much and this is getting like Katz and Lowe.

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12-14-2012, 10:16 AM
  #295
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While I think this is a good move (Tillman's reign had a brutal impact on the fanbase and on the team) and think Hervey deserves a chance, I have some fears. We have a management team with very little experience. Rhodes has little experience with a pro football team. However, he doesn't run the football side; the GM does.

On that, the team has taken a lot of heat for having Rhodes, a non-football guy running a sports franchise. It doesn't matter, as he runs the business side, where he does have experience. Hervey will run the football side, and that's the area that does concern me the most.

About the GM. Hervey is a rookie at that tough job and has so little experience with all of the things he now has to do like managing the salary cap, especially.

We have a head coach who is no rookie but also has little experience at that job. Kavis managed a sideshow last season, with more on-field errors than I've ever seen and I've been following CFL football for 50 years.

I want Hervey to work out well, but we'll see soon enough as he starts to sign more players and we see what we get and for how much.

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12-14-2012, 10:19 AM
  #296
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I can see it, but it makes less sense when you consider the cap hit that Shaw is going to cost us. If he's on 100k, I'd hope he does have more duties.
He can play DB too right? He was a good one in university correct? So they could save some roster space there having him as a back-up.


Last edited by Doppler Drift: 12-14-2012 at 10:25 AM.
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12-14-2012, 10:46 AM
  #297
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While I think this is a good move (Tillman's reign had a brutal impact on the fanbase and on the team) and think Hervey deserves a chance, I have some fears. We have a management team with very little experience. Rhodes has little experience with a pro football team. However, he doesn't run the football side; the GM does.

On that, the team has taken a lot of heat for having Rhodes, a non-football guy running a sports franchise. It doesn't matter, as he runs the business side, where he does have experience. Hervey will run the football side, and that's the area that does concern me the most.

About the GM. Hervey is a rookie at that tough job and has so little experience with all of the things he now has to do like managing the salary cap, especially.

We have a head coach who is no rookie but also has little experience at that job. Kavis managed a sideshow last season, with more on-field errors than I've ever seen and I've been following CFL football for 50 years.

I want Hervey to work out well, but we'll see soon enough as he starts to sign more players and we see what we get and for how much.
I have not commented on the new GM but you have underscored a couple of items that have me concerned and should have every Eskimo fan concerned.

First and foremost the 2 men that were the leading candidates for the GM job were Hervey and Reed. Both men are inexperienced so clearly experience was not a requirement in terms of Rhodes' shortlist. So we have a man in Rhodes with little to no experience (in terms of football) narrowing his search for a GM to run the team down to 2 men with no experience simply because he likes them as people.
Rhodes may not run the football side of things (as you alluded to) but he has more impact on the football side of things than anyone else because this man with no football experience is the most influential factor in hiring the GM.

So in a nutshell we have a man with little to no clue about what it takes to make a football team successful being responsible to hire the person that will ultimately decide everything about what the team will look like on the field.

There is no experience from the top down and somehow this is part of a recipe for success?

Wow.


The question needs to be asked....how is it that a man (Rhodes)with absolutely no experience running a football team...a man who will impact this organization more than any other person was chosen to be in charge of the direction this football team takes?
How was this inexplicable decision made?

In all honesty I had to wait until some time had passed after the press conference to comment on this hiring. Len (come closer so I can blow smoke up you ass) Rhodes was painful to listen to.
The CHED crew was no better.


So now we hope for the best because hope is really all there is to hang on to at this point.


Last edited by guymez: 12-14-2012 at 11:34 AM.
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12-14-2012, 11:19 AM
  #298
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While I think this is a good move (Tillman's reign had a brutal impact on the fanbase and on the team) and think Hervey deserves a chance, I have some fears. We have a management team with very little experience. Rhodes has little experience with a pro football team. However, he doesn't run the football side; the GM does.

On that, the team has taken a lot of heat for having Rhodes, a non-football guy running a sports franchise. It doesn't matter, as he runs the business side, where he does have experience. Hervey will run the football side, and that's the area that does concern me the most.

About the GM. Hervey is a rookie at that tough job and has so little experience with all of the things he now has to do like managing the salary cap, especially.

We have a head coach who is no rookie but also has little experience at that job. Kavis managed a sideshow last season, with more on-field errors than I've ever seen and I've been following CFL football for 50 years.

I want Hervey to work out well, but we'll see soon enough as he starts to sign more players and we see what we get and for how much.
This is exactly what I've been stating as well. A combination of inexperience in the three head guys running a pro football club. I expect more keystone cops next season.

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12-14-2012, 11:34 AM
  #299
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I have not commented on the new GM but you have underscored a couple of items that have me concerned and should have every Eskimo fan concerned.

First and foremost the 2 men that were the leading candidates for the GM job were Hervey and Reed. Both men are inexperienced so clearly experience was not a requirement in terms of Rhodes' shortlist. So we have a man in Rhodes with little to no experience (in terms of football) narrowing his search for a GM to run the team down to 2 men with no experience simply because he likes them as people.
Rhodes may not run the football side of things (as you alluded to) but he has more impact on the football side of things than anyone else because this man with no football experience is the most influential factor in hiring the GM.

So in a nutshell we have a man with little to no clue about what it takes to make a football team successful being responsible to hire the person that will ultimately decide everything about what the team will look like on the field.

There is no experience from the top down and somehow this part of a recipe for success?

Wow.


The question needs to be asked....how is it that a man (Rhodes)with absolutely no experience running a football team...a man who will impact this organization more than any other person was chosen to be in charge of the direction this football team takes?
How was this inexplicable decision made?

In all honesty I had to wait until some time had passed after the press conference to comment on this hiring. Len (come closer so I can blow smoke up you ass) Rhodes was painful to listen to.
The CHED crew was no better.

So now we hope for the best because hope is really all there is to hang on to at this point.
On the bolded part, now this may scare you even more but it wasn't just Rhodes who hired Hervey. The board was involved in this decision. (Don't shoot the messenger.)

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12-14-2012, 11:42 AM
  #300
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On the bolded part, now this may scare you even more but it wasn't just Rhodes who hired Hervey. The board was involved in this decision. (Don't shoot the messenger.)
Quite honestly I am not surprised.

The thing is though with the board being as involved as it is...you would think it would be almost mandatory to have a man (in Rhodes' position) with a football background.
Why then would the board see fit to hire a man in Rhodes with no football experience?
I know you likely don't have an answer to that but it certainly would be worthwhile to hear the boards explanation.

Nobody in the media is addressing this either.

I just defies reason IMO.

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