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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Who here would like to see the NHL completely dissolve?

View Poll Results: Would you like to see the NHL crumble and see a new league created?
Yes 210 29.41%
No 504 70.59%
Voters: 714. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:01 PM
  #401
Confucius
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I don't. They need to hold the crooks that run the Leafs accountable for their mismanagement. Fans DO have the ultimate power and should, as good fans, use it to as a check against bad management. They HAVE to give people at the top an incentive to put a good product on the ice, otherwise they're just going to get screwed over and over again.
Too bad there are just too many fans for this to ever work. Now if there were another team or two around to take some fans away well that may do it.

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12-13-2012, 07:09 PM
  #402
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Too bad there are just too many fans for this to ever work. Now if there were another team or two around to take some fans away well that may do it.
I wouldn't object to that. There SHOULD be a second team in the GTA (Hamilton maybe?). The competition would give incentive to the Leafs to put a better product on the ice. The sport is always better served when everybody strives to put the best product on-ice as is possible. I think Quebec should get a team first (I'm still appalled the Nordiques left in the first place) but yes I believe there needs to be a second team in the GTA to keep the Leafs honest.

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12-13-2012, 07:13 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
I wouldn't object to that. There SHOULD be a second team in the GTA (Hamilton maybe?). The competition would give incentive to the Leafs to put a better product on the ice. The sport is always better served when everybody strives to put the best product on-ice as is possible. I think Quebec should get a team first (I'm still appalled the Nordiques left in the first place) but yes I believe there needs to be a second team in the GTA to keep the Leafs honest.
Better reason is so some fans can get to games. I saw the local tv numbers in another Forbes article. Panthers get 3,000 viewers per game, Phoenix gets 10,000, hockey hotbed Pittsburgh gets 100,000. Discussed on the Fan today Leafs get 775,000. Sort of puts it all into a proper perspective.

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12-13-2012, 07:14 PM
  #404
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Who says you have to have played in order to be a fan of a sport?
Outstanding point.

I grew up in northern Michigan about an hour or two south of ONT. No school in my town offered hockey back then (although there were private leagues).

Moved south 15 years ago. My boy plays hockey now and the high school he will be attending in 2 years offers it. A good number of schools down here do.
He may not compare to the almighty Canadian on the ice at his age level, but it's the only sport he wants to play so I make sure he does.

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12-13-2012, 07:18 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by preds1 View Post
Outstanding point.

I grew up in northern Michigan about an hour or two south of ONT. No school in my town offered hockey back then (although there were private leagues).

Moved south 15 years ago. My boy plays hockey now and the high school he will be attending in 2 years offers it. A good number of schools down here do.
He may not compare to the almighty Canadian on the ice at his age level, but it's the only sport he wants to play so I make sure he does.
Actually some high schools in the GTA are dropping hockey. Apparently the kids are just killing each other out there.

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12-13-2012, 07:19 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Better reason is so some fans can get to games. I saw the local tv numbers in another Forbes article. Panthers get 3,000 viewers per game, Phoenix gets 10,000, hockey hotbed Pittsburgh gets 100,000. Discussed on the Fan today Leafs get 775,000. Sort of puts it all into a proper perspective.
From what my friend in Hamilton tells me, at least part of the demand for Leafs tickets is artificial as corporations based around Toronto buy up huge blocks of the tickets and use them to entertain clients. BTW, my friend in Hamilton hates the Leafs as she blames them for keeping a team out of Hamilton lol

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12-13-2012, 07:20 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by preds1 View Post
Outstanding point.

I grew up in northern Michigan about an hour or two south of ONT. No school in my town offered hockey back then (although there were private leagues).

Moved south 15 years ago. My boy plays hockey now and the high school he will be attending in 2 years offers it. A good number of schools down here do.
He may not compare to the almighty Canadian on the ice at his age level, but it's the only sport he wants to play so I make sure he does.
Hey, you'll be hard pressed to find a bigger hockey fan than me and I don't even know how to skate I certainly didn't grow up playing the game, not even street hockey.

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12-13-2012, 07:21 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by preds1 View Post
Outstanding point.

I grew up in northern Michigan about an hour or two south of ONT. No school in my town offered hockey back then (although there were private leagues).

Moved south 15 years ago. My boy plays hockey now and the high school he will be attending in 2 years offers it. A good number of schools down here do.
He may not compare to the almighty Canadian on the ice at his age level, but it's the only sport he wants to play so I make sure he does.
Individually ? No one. You don't have to play to love the game. But if you are aware of a league whose interaction with the game is overwhelmingly abstract, I'd like to know it.

Or is it just a coincidence that the good table markets are coincidentally where people also participate at some level.

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12-13-2012, 07:21 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
From what my friend in Hamilton tells me, at least part of the demand for Leafs tickets is artificial as corporations based around Toronto buy up huge blocks of the tickets and use them to entertain clients. BTW, my friend in Hamilton hates the Leafs as she blames them for keeping a team out of Hamilton lol
Check the TV numbers...

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12-13-2012, 07:25 PM
  #410
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Hey, you'll be hard pressed to find a bigger hockey fan than me and I don't even know how to skate I certainly didn't grow up playing the game, not even street hockey.
Good, but you are a minority. A lot of kids become leaf fans because they dream of being a leaf when they grow up. If there were more fans like you it would be doable, but there aren't.

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12-13-2012, 07:26 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Check the TV numbers...
Oh I have no doubt the TV numbers are huge, mostly because the Leafs are the only game in town. A second team will, I think, pull some of those ratings away from the Leafs; especially if they put a competitive team on the ice and give fans a real alternative choice.

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12-13-2012, 07:28 PM
  #412
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Good, but you are a minority. A lot of kids become leaf fans because they dream of being a leaf when they grow up. If there were more fans like you it would be doable, but there aren't.
That's a problem right there, because those kids aren't becoming hockey fans: They're becoming Leafs fans. There's a big difference between the two.

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12-13-2012, 07:33 PM
  #413
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Hey, you'll be hard pressed to find a bigger hockey fan than me and I don't even know how to skate I certainly didn't grow up playing the game, not even street hockey.

I hear ya.
I grew up with football and basketball. Neither interest me now at the professional level. We still do go to a Titan (football) game down here once or twice a year. But we do about 20 Pred games a year and have for the past 9 or 10 years. The Pred players are upstanding guys and we've been able to meet them all.

It'd be a sad day if there wasn't hockey in a "non-traditional" market down here.

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12-13-2012, 07:33 PM
  #414
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That's a problem right there, because those kids aren't becoming hockey fans: They're becoming Leafs fans. There's a big difference between the two.
Once they get drafted they turn in their Leaf dreams.

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12-13-2012, 07:39 PM
  #415
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Once they get drafted they turn in their Leaf dreams.
No doubt!

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12-13-2012, 07:40 PM
  #416
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I hear ya.
I grew up with football and basketball. Neither interest me now at the professional level. We still do go to a Titan (football) game down here once or twice a year. But we do about 20 Pred games a year and have for the past 9 or 10 years. The Pred players are upstanding guys and we've been able to meet them all.

It'd be a sad day if there wasn't hockey in a "non-traditional" market down here.
I grew up playing baseball and still follow it. I've expanded my sports horizons by a long shot since then and hockey is by far my favorite sport now

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12-13-2012, 08:22 PM
  #417
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Playing a sport has little to do with popularity in my eyes. Soccer is the largest youth sport by far in the states. Look how well the MLS is doing

May have missed the overall point of the thread, but I think shrinking the league would be terrible for the health of the game. You also can't expect growth overnight. The Winterhawks (prior to the sanctions) were slowly growing in popularity in the Portland area. The CA Bay Area has fully embraced the sharks at this point. It's not unreasonable to think it will take a good amount of time for the southern teams to catch on

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12-13-2012, 08:33 PM
  #418
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Playing a sport has little to do with popularity in my eyes. Soccer is the largest youth sport by far in the states. Look how well the MLS is doing

May have missed the overall point of the thread, but I think shrinking the league would be terrible for the health of the game. You also can't expect growth overnight. The Winterhawks (prior to the sanctions) were slowly growing in popularity in the Portland area. The CA Bay Area has fully embraced the sharks at this point. It's not unreasonable to think it will take a good amount of time for the southern teams to catch on
The Winterhawks have fans that follow the team around. I've seen them up here every time the T-Birds host Portland.

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12-13-2012, 08:50 PM
  #419
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The Winterhawks have fans that follow the team around. I've seen them up here every time the T-Birds host Portland.
I was just outside Portland (Lake Oswego) for 5 years, and over the course of that time saw a ton of people start following the team. I think it would be a great place along with Seattle for an NHL team. The city absolutely fell in love with the Timbers, almost over night.

On a separate note, I'm a big fan of Tacoma. Usually stayed in Federal Way when i was up that way, but I had a few friends that went to Puget Sound, and i enjoyed my time there.

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12-13-2012, 09:20 PM
  #420
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I was just outside Portland (Lake Oswego) for 5 years, and over the course of that time saw a ton of people start following the team. I think it would be a great place along with Seattle for an NHL team. The city absolutely fell in love with the Timbers, almost over night.

On a separate note, I'm a big fan of Tacoma. Usually stayed in Federal Way when i was up that way, but I had a few friends that went to Puget Sound, and i enjoyed my time there.
I'm not a local (I'm from the Washington DC area), I moved out here back in '10 and I love it here

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12-13-2012, 09:22 PM
  #421
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That's a problem right there, because those kids aren't becoming hockey fans: They're becoming Leafs fans. There's a big difference between the two.
So kids who grow up playing the game, emulating their favorite players ( buying the sticks, the posters wearing their idols numbers) have the same value to the league as someone who scours the box scores for their fantasy league but can't be bothered to go to games or even watch them ?

And since a mod already warned me, I'm not saying that you have lace them up to be a good fan. But if you do, you have a primal direct link to the game and an important frame of reference that you can't get from a boxscore or a book. You know what it feels like when the laces dig into your palms, you know the feeling of helplessness when you realise that a guy has a step on you before anyone else does. You know that freezing your butt ( and toes off) by leaving before sunrise to get a clean sheet of ice with no ruts is a trade you would make 10 times out of 10. This is a perspective of the game that is formed by your own experiences.

These experiences are not a prerequisite to making good fans but they are the easiest way to make lifelong fans of the sport. When you have pools of kids who spend their childhood and teens playing the game you don't have to convince them of the value of the NHL, they already know.

Much of fandom is aspirational, I don't see how this is possible if 99% of the house lacks this connection because they never had the chance to play the greatest game on gods green earth at any level.

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12-13-2012, 09:31 PM
  #422
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I'm not a local (I'm from the Washington DC area), I moved out here back in '10 and I love it here
If you can handle the weather, the pacific northwest is amazing. I'm hoping to move back up that way in a couple of years

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These experiences are not a prerequisite to making good fans but they are the easiest way to make lifelong fans of the sport. When you have pools of kids who spend their childhood and teens playing the game you don't have to convince them of the value of the NHL, they already know.
Again, i ask why is soccer so different then?

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12-13-2012, 09:42 PM
  #423
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If you can handle the weather, the pacific northwest is amazing. I'm hoping to move back up that way in a couple of years



Again, i ask why is soccer so different then?
Why are cross sport comparisons always made. If mls went to hell in a hand basket I m sure that some people would care, but I would not be one because soccer was not part of the social fabric of my youth.

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12-13-2012, 09:56 PM
  #424
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Why are cross sport comparisons always made. If mls went to hell in a hand basket I m sure that some people would care, but I would not be one because soccer was not part of the social fabric of my youth.
Maybe because it was part of the social fabric of SOMEONE'S youth. The social fabric of your youth isn't any more valuable than the social fabric of anyone else's. They're all equal in the grand scheme of things. I would NEVER presume myself to claim that my experiences as a youth are somehow more valid than anyone else's.

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12-13-2012, 10:03 PM
  #425
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Why are cross sport comparisons always made. If mls went to hell in a hand basket I m sure that some people would care, but I would not be one because soccer was not part of the social fabric of my youth.
I understand that soccer may not have been part of the social fabric of your youth. As i stated in an earlier post though, soccer is the by far the most popular youth sport in America. You seem to think the best way (or easiest) to become a fan is to play the sport growing up. To gain experiences by playing the game. Why then does it struggle in popularity in the states?

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