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Morgan Rielly discussion thread.

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Old
12-12-2012, 07:40 PM
  #201
Frankie
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Originally Posted by IBeL13f View Post
To be fair, wouldn't the only reason he'd make the team be because they're better with him than with any of the NHL-calibre players he'd be beating out for that job?
i would hope so. but lets not pretend that its the best 23 players in training camp that make the team. contracts and draft position play a huge role.

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12-12-2012, 07:50 PM
  #202
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i would hope so. but lets not pretend that its the best 23 players in training camp that make the team. contracts and draft position play a huge role.
So you think they'd burn a year of his ELC on 39 games and scratch one of Gunnarsson, Gardiner or Liles, even if he didn't outplay them, just because he's a 5th-overall pick? You're right, sometimes Connollys and Lombardis get played over Kadris, but that's not exactly the situation that we'd have on our hands in this case.

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12-12-2012, 08:59 PM
  #203
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So you think they'd burn a year of his ELC on 39 games and scratch one of Gunnarsson, Gardiner or Liles, even if he didn't outplay them, just because he's a 5th-overall pick? You're right, sometimes Connollys and Lombardis get played over Kadris, but that's not exactly the situation that we'd have on our hands in this case.
well as you point out, contracts play a big role. maybe he's good enough to make the team, maybe even help the team become better, but is it worth burning a year of his elc? its a big consideration for sure.

the top 23 players in camp don't always make the team. in fact i'd say they rarely do.

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12-12-2012, 09:24 PM
  #204
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You guys do know that Poulin said if Rielly makes team Canada he will be staying for the whole tournament and not be called back for a Leafs training camp. Right?

IF he misses training camp, no way he is just given a spot on the Leafs for 1 or 9 games. He will be sent back to the WHL.

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12-12-2012, 09:30 PM
  #205
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well as you point out, contracts play a big role. maybe he's good enough to make the team, maybe even help the team become better, but is it worth burning a year of his elc? its a big consideration for sure.

the top 23 players in camp don't always make the team. in fact i'd say they rarely do.
What are you talking about? The discussion was about if he were to make the team, whether or not they'd be better for it...

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12-12-2012, 10:21 PM
  #206
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wow, you came to that conclusion by watching 2 games against a russian team you know almost nothing about, and a team canada scrimmage? that's some amazing scouting.

its one thing to argue he'd be better off playing in the nhl for his own development, its another thing to argue he'd instantly make the leafs a better team. that's an incredible leap of faith.
Let's see, I have watched Morgan play well over 100 games, and yes I believe that he is ready for the NHL.....I just used those 4 ice times as proof positive for me that he is ready.

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12-12-2012, 10:28 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by IBeL13f View Post
So you think they'd burn a year of his ELC on 39 games and scratch one of Gunnarsson, Gardiner or Liles, even if he didn't outplay them, just because he's a 5th-overall pick? You're right, sometimes Connollys and Lombardis get played over Kadris, but that's not exactly the situation that we'd have on our hands in this case.

Yes, I do believe that they will burn a year of his ELC....last year the Blues burned a year of a rookies ELC for 7 games. Morgan can play both left and right defense and has done so a lot. He also would likley move out Franson or Holzer and give Carlyle many more options.

I say he plays this year for the Leafs after the World Jr Championship if the NHL dispute gets settled.

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12-12-2012, 10:32 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Yes, I do believe that they will burn a year of his ELC....last year the Blues burned a year of a rookies ELC for 7 games. Morgan can play both left and right defense and has done so a lot. He also would likley move out Franson or Holzer and give Carlyle many more options.

I say he plays this year for the Leafs after the World Jr Championship if the NHL dispute gets settled.
I think you misinterpreted my post a bit. I have no problem with using up a year of his ELC if he outplays other guys for his spot. That post was saying that it would be extremely unlikely they would choose to use up his first pro year on a half-season without him actually de-throning any of the NHL-calibre guys we already have in the line-up.

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12-12-2012, 10:42 PM
  #209
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The ELC won't even come into consideration into this decision, IMO.

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12-12-2012, 11:47 PM
  #210
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old video but still just as amazing to watch as the firstcouple times

gotta love the kids heart lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=eae4EsGoe1k


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12-12-2012, 11:49 PM
  #211
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old video but still as amazing to watch as the firstcouple times

gotta love the kids heart lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=eae4EsGoe1k

The only penalty minutes he has received all year as well.

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12-12-2012, 11:51 PM
  #212
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The only penalty minutes he has received all year as well.
yup! He hasn't had a minor penalty since october of last year too! He's very disciplined.


Last edited by Hennig: 12-12-2012 at 11:57 PM.
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12-13-2012, 02:22 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Let's see, I have watched Morgan play well over 100 games, and yes I believe that he is ready for the NHL.....I just used those 4 ice times as proof positive for me that he is ready.
So you throw him into the NHL and 18 months from now you will be saying how much of an idiot Burke is for drafting him and he is a bust.


We found a gem. LEt him cure like a fine Scotch.

There is a reason Johnny Walker Blue is $275 for a 26oz'r.

The leafs have said he won't be called back from the WJC's and that is the best thing for him.

And I have no doubt he would give Gardiner a run fo the #2 D-man on this team right now. But we need to let him mature.

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12-13-2012, 02:24 AM
  #214
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yup! He hasn't had a minor penalty since october of last year too! He's very disciplined.
He can skate so well he doesn't get the cheap hooking and trippping penalties.

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12-13-2012, 04:48 PM
  #215
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I'd rather see him playing for the Leafs and helping them make the playoffs.
To be honest a way of shattering a rookies confidence is when there in the thick of it and being counted on the most. Sure couterier looked really good but if he didn't have giroux he wouldn't be even close to as dominant. I realize he is way better than his peers but confidence is hard to come by in a town such as toronto.

I also believe the leafs have. A team to make the playoffs right now and if they bring him in next season (after making the playoffs this season) he won't be considered our "saviour" and be under huge scruinity by the media. Waiting is never bad idea at the age of 18.

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12-13-2012, 07:18 PM
  #216
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To be honest a way of shattering a rookies confidence is when there in the thick of it and being counted on the most. Sure couterier looked really good but if he didn't have giroux he wouldn't be even close to as dominant. I realize he is way better than his peers but confidence is hard to come by in a town such as toronto.

I also believe the leafs have. A team to make the playoffs right now and if they bring him in next season (after making the playoffs this season) he won't be considered our "saviour" and be under huge scruinity by the media. Waiting is never bad idea at the age of 18.
there wont be a season this season so there will be no playoffs to make
which is good because hopefully the leafs will get another prospect just as good or better (a good chance of happening)

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12-13-2012, 07:25 PM
  #217
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there wont be a season this season so there will be no playoffs to make
which is good because hopefully the leafs will get another prospect just as good or better (a good chance of happening)
yea so thats why im in favour of him staying in the WHL and possibly MJ so he can join the marlies in there playoff run.

and at this point im kind of hoping so, hopefully the league gives back to its biggest revenue generator capitalizing on giving us and montreal top picks in this draft and having 2 dominant teams which are your 2 biggest revenue generators.

or they could give mackinnon to phenix, and try to save franchises but they need to cut the league back by 2-4 and send one of the teams to Quebec.

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12-13-2012, 08:11 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
So you throw him into the NHL and 18 months from now you will be saying how much of an idiot Burke is for drafting him and he is a bust.


We found a gem. LEt him cure like a fine Scotch.

There is a reason Johnny Walker Blue is $275 for a 26oz'r.

The leafs have said he won't be called back from the WJC's and that is the best thing for him.

And I have no doubt he would give Gardiner a run fo the #2 D-man on this team right now. But we need to let him mature.
First of all.....do not put words into my mouth.

This is not a bottle of whiskey we are talking about, but a highly skilled player and for development to take place the player must be challenged. He will not be challenged in the WHL and he can not play in the AHL, so the NHL is where he is going to be challenged.

I have had the benefit of watching him play a lot over the past 4 years and his game has matured to the point that he will need to play at a higher level.

This is not a typical player we are talking about....he is the best player we have drafted in a very long long time!

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12-13-2012, 08:16 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
To be honest a way of shattering a rookies confidence is when there in the thick of it and being counted on the most. Sure couterier looked really good but if he didn't have giroux he wouldn't be even close to as dominant. I realize he is way better than his peers but confidence is hard to come by in a town such as toronto.

I also believe the leafs have. A team to make the playoffs right now and if they bring him in next season (after making the playoffs this season) he won't be considered our "saviour" and be under huge scruinity by the media. Waiting is never bad idea at the age of 18.
Couts and Rielly have a lot in common......both Hounds. They have been away from home since grade 9. Very mature and confident.

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12-13-2012, 09:32 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by IBeL13f View Post
What are you talking about? The discussion was about if he were to make the team, whether or not they'd be better for it...
you brought up the consideration of his elc. that's what i'm talking about.

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12-13-2012, 09:59 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
wow, you came to that conclusion by watching 2 games against a russian team you know almost nothing about, and a team canada scrimmage? that's some amazing scouting.

its one thing to argue he'd be better off playing in the nhl for his own development, its another thing to argue he'd instantly make the leafs a better team. that's an incredible leap of faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBeL13f View Post
To be fair, wouldn't the only reason he'd make the team be because they're better with him than with any of the NHL-calibre players he'd be beating out for that job?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
i would hope so. but lets not pretend that its the best 23 players in training camp that make the team. contracts and draft position play a huge role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBeL13f View Post
So you think they'd burn a year of his ELC on 39 games and scratch one of Gunnarsson, Gardiner or Liles, even if he didn't outplay them, just because he's a 5th-overall pick? You're right, sometimes Connollys and Lombardis get played over Kadris, but that's not exactly the situation that we'd have on our hands in this case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
well as you point out, contracts play a big role. maybe he's good enough to make the team, maybe even help the team become better, but is it worth burning a year of his elc? its a big consideration for sure.

the top 23 players in camp don't always make the team. in fact i'd say they rarely do.
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
you brought up the consideration of his elc. that's what i'm talking about.
Sorry for such a large amount of quotes, but I think if you re-read the interaction all at once you might understand where the confusion's coming from. Your point about whether or not it's worth it to use up a year of his ELC should he earn a spot on the team (by beating out other players we currently have penciled into the roster, therefore leading to the assumption that he would be making our team better) has no relevance to what we were talking about before.

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12-13-2012, 10:00 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
First of all.....do not put words into my mouth.

This is not a bottle of whiskey we are talking about, but a highly skilled player and for development to take place the player must be challenged. He will not be challenged in the WHL and he can not play in the AHL, so the NHL is where he is going to be challenged.

I have had the benefit of watching him play a lot over the past 4 years and his game has matured to the point that he will need to play at a higher level.

This is not a typical player we are talking about....he is the best player we have drafted in a very long long time!
Don't like people putting words in your mouth? Do unto others buddy.

Johnny Walker Blue is not just some bottle of whiskey.

He doesn't need to be gettting slammed by Lucic as an 18yr old. Leave him in the WHL for atleast one more year. Maybe throw some money at Moose Jaw to move him to a decent team so he can play with talent and maybe see a Mem cup.

History shows bringing 18yr old D-men into the NHL is not a good idea. Even though he sticks out in Junior, let him keep doing it for one more year.

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12-13-2012, 10:33 PM
  #223
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As Leaf fans we should know that keeping him on this team only raises expectations. What does that mean? It means more heat from the media, it means questioning if he's ready, if he's good enough. Is he playing enough, should they send him back? All questions that can be avoided with simple patience. Let him dominate the WJHC, let him go back to junior, let him either make the playoffs or be traded to a contender and just build him up. He'd be in such a better mind frame going into next year than being forced into this situation where we'd be looking at him as a possible scapegoat. Which would be totally totally unfair for him. And don't give me any slack cause each and every one of you knows it would happen.

Whether he's ready or not for the team doesn't matter. It's whether he's ready to be the main focus. And being an 18 year old kid, if you want to kill one of your prospects you keep him on the big club and watch him getting eatten alive by the idiots in this town. He'll be ready in a year or two, but he's not there yet.

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12-13-2012, 11:01 PM
  #224
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As Leaf fans we should know that keeping him on this team only raises expectations. What does that mean? It means more heat from the media, it means questioning if he's ready, if he's good enough. Is he playing enough, should they send him back? All questions that can be avoided with simple patience. Let him dominate the WJHC, let him go back to junior, let him either make the playoffs or be traded to a contender and just build him up. He'd be in such a better mind frame going into next year than being forced into this situation where we'd be looking at him as a possible scapegoat. Which would be totally totally unfair for him. And don't give me any slack cause each and every one of you knows it would happen.

Whether he's ready or not for the team doesn't matter. It's whether he's ready to be the main focus. And being an 18 year old kid, if you want to kill one of your prospects you keep him on the big club and watch him getting eatten alive by the idiots in this town. He'll be ready in a year or two, but he's not there yet.
I'm not advocating that we keep Rielly under any circumstances, but I really take exception to the notion that the Leafs kill all these great prospects because we somehow "raise expectations" for them.

Off the top of my head, out of guys like Tlusty, Pogge, Stralman, Hedin, Pilar, Colaiacovo, Steen, Antropov, Stajan, Wellwood, Harrison, Hanson, Gustavsson, Bell, Tellqvist, Svoboda, Kronwall, Mitchell, Earl, Stalberg, who grew up in our organization who received playing time under less than ideal circumstances and didn't become front line players, I'd say none of them ever really failed because they were thrown to the fire or had expectations somehow ruin them.

These guys were just never going to be superstars because of who they were, not because the Leafs ruined them.

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12-13-2012, 11:04 PM
  #225
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Offensively, Rielly no doubt would have no trouble in the NHL. His passing and speed would be above the average NHLer.

Defensively I am a little worried though. His defensive IQ is fine, he reads plays well and is pretty good positionally. Most worried about his ability to win puck battles in the corners. He is at best average in junior in the dirty areas and he might be exposed playing against full-grown men like Rick Nash.

Ultimately we will have to see him play at least a game or two to see how well his style translates but I would be happy either way (WHL or NHL).

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