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NHL Lockout XXVIII: Don't worry about the lockout. Let me worry about blank.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:28 PM
  #851
Raym11
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Would you accept 47/53 hate?


We will die on the 50/50 hill.

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12-13-2012, 06:30 PM
  #852
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Originally Posted by LetangInTheSO View Post
As has been pointed out countless times, the owners have already "won" this negotiation. They got their 50/50, which - in reality - was their only significant goal of this lockout. They're also going to win some assortment of their secondary wants. If the lockout ended today with the ratificatoin of the NHLPA's proposal from last week (or something very close to it), Bettman would still have "won" this negotiation and he'd still have the support of the owners, IMO.

I disagree that the owners have won. If the NHLPA had accepted all along that this would end up at 50/50 then I am not sure this can be counted as a win for the owners. They were saying on Hockey Central At Noon today that the owners are mad as hell at Gary for how much they think he has given up and that Bettman is digging his heals in now because he cannot possibly give up any more without facing a severe backlash from the owners.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:31 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
*Ask for mediation*

*Mediators mediate*

*Refuse to budge on issues*

Don't understand.
From what I heard today it was the league that refused to budge on anything. Apparently their response to everything was that their current offer stands and the players could take it or leave it but that they wouldn't negotiate a single thing in that offer.

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12-13-2012, 06:32 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Raym11 View Post
We will die on the 50/50 hill.
Sorry but we're not speaking the same language.
Cripes! All you can do is laugh or go crazy!

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:32 PM
  #855
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
From what I heard today it was the league that refused to budge on anything. Apparently their response to everything was that their current offer stands and the players could take it or leave it but that they wouldn't negotiate a single thing in that offer.
That does make sense but I am curious....where did you hear that?

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:36 PM
  #856
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And this is why i'm moving away from 100% owner support. At this point, they got their win, just "give" the players a bone with the contract and CBA length and get this thing done. I mean, don't just give them the farm there, don't give them unlimited contracts and a 3 year CBA, but there's obviously room for compromise on where the two sides stand at this point. It's close enough that either side could easily end this lockout if they would just get over their dang ego.
The NHL gave them a bone, in extra make whole $$$, relinquishing off Arbitration, ELC and UFA terms and the 7 year term limit for own players.

Maybe the NHL would think about moving up a year or two for across the board term limits if the NHLPA accepted variance and stopped adding poison pills to all their proposals (In this one, it was compliance buyouts, escrow limits and mid-level exceptions as the poison pills). But the NHL will likely make the NHLPA propose that with other terms the same as the NHL offer, opposed to moving up on something like contact term so Fehr can come out and tell people how close the sides are (and expect people to think, oh that means the NHl just has to move a little more in other areas!). That's a good way for the NHL to get fleeced.

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12-13-2012, 06:36 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
And this is why i'm moving away from 100% owner support. At this point, they got their win, just "give" the players a bone with the contract and CBA length and get this thing done. I mean, don't just give them the farm there, don't give them unlimited contracts and a 3 year CBA, but there's obviously room for compromise on where the two sides stand at this point. It's close enough that either side could easily end this lockout if they would just get over their dang ego.
I've been saying this for a few days now. It's amazing how the owners have swung sentiment to where fans want them to get everything now. It's time they relent on the contract thing for an 8 year CBA and lets play.

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12-13-2012, 06:38 PM
  #858
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I really don't understand why there has to be a share of the revenue in prosports. Why aren't the owners the boss and the players the employees that are hired and fired if needed. Raises if deserved.

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12-13-2012, 06:40 PM
  #859
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I really don't understand why there has to be a share of the revenue in prosports. Why aren't the owners the boss and the players the employees that are hired and fired if needed. Raises if deserved.
It's there to protect the owners from paying too much in salaries. I'm sure the players would be happy if there was no cap at a share of revenues.

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12-13-2012, 06:41 PM
  #860
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Fehr is pretty awesome though.

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12-13-2012, 06:41 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
I've been saying this for a few days now. It's amazing how the owners have swung sentiment to where fans want them to get everything now. It's time they relent on the contract thing for an 8 year CBA and lets play.
Fehr did this to himself, in my opinion. He came out in the media and said "We're close to a deal", when he knew they weren't really. The NHL had offered concessions on their stance on a few topics, and asked for others in return. Fehr said that they're in agreement on what the NHL conceded but not what they wanted from the players in return.

Fehr said that they're close, and that the NHL has moved on certain things. Now it's time for the players to move a bit. They're just sticking to those 3 topics because as of right now those are the only three things they hold over the owners.

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12-13-2012, 06:45 PM
  #862
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Once (if) the season is cancelled, the meetings will be so few and far in between.

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12-13-2012, 06:46 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
I really don't understand why there has to be a share of the revenue in prosports. Why aren't the owners the boss and the players the employees that are hired and fired if needed. Raises if deserved.
When that was the case, the players were receiving 2/3 of the revenue. Also, labor unions exist for a reason.

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12-13-2012, 06:49 PM
  #864
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I think Bettman will be will ahead of Fehr in the grand scheme of Sports Villians.

And both of them will be pretty far down the list. Hell, in Toronto, they'd still be behind Kerry Fraser.

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12-13-2012, 06:50 PM
  #865
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This all makes me quite confident there will be a season though. They're just stalling until the drop dead date. It's so painfully obvious that it's a little insulting to all involved. What a waste of time.

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12-13-2012, 06:50 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I don't know about that. I just heard that Canadian Ryan Dempster is negotiating a 3 year $35 million deal with the Red Sox. I wouldn't call him a star. Baseball salaries are insane.
Yet, as a whole, MLB players make 40-45% of baseball revenue compared to the 50% NHL players will make.

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12-13-2012, 06:50 PM
  #867
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Once (if) the season is cancelled, the meetings will be so few and far in between.
At this point the owners need to present their best and final offer and say here it is you have until December 31st to accept or the season is cancelled if they do that it may cause the players to vote I think that is the only way this gets resolved

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12-13-2012, 06:52 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
I really don't understand why there has to be a share of the revenue in prosports. Why aren't the owners the boss and the players the employees that are hired and fired if needed. Raises if deserved.
Because the players are the business and aren't replaceable, while the owners clearly are replaceable.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:53 PM
  #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Because the players are the business and aren't replaceable, while the owners clearly are replaceable.
That's probably not the best argument in the world. In fact, it doesn't make much sense at all. There is so much more to it then what you just posted. I don't even know where to begin.

But... care to elaborate?

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:55 PM
  #870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Because the players are the business and aren't replaceable, while the owners clearly are replaceable.
Owners are replaceable but there are far more available players than owners. An owner is a lot harder to replace than a player.

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12-13-2012, 06:55 PM
  #871
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
This all makes me quite confident there will be a season though. They're just stalling until the drop dead date. It's so painfully obvious that it's a little insulting to all involved. What a waste of time.
Yeah this is exactly how I feel. I'm 55% percent sure a deal gets done, and there's a season, but it will go until right before the games from January 15th are to be cancelled. 55/45 isn't too confident, but it's how I feel though. If games are cancelled from January 15th I expect the rest of the season will go with it unless a deal has been made, and they're cancelled to rewrite the schedule cause I think those games will need to be cancelled anyway.

I don't think a deal gets done until second week of January. It will be a deal, or no deal, and the season is called.

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12-13-2012, 06:56 PM
  #872
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
This all makes me quite confident there will be a season though. They're just stalling until the drop dead date. It's so painfully obvious that it's a little insulting to all involved. What a waste of time.
This is how I feel. I don't think I've felt this confident that we'll have a season throughout this whole process.

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12-13-2012, 06:56 PM
  #873
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I'd advise you to read a history book.
Is it the one that includes the Yankees in the playoffs nine out of every 10 years because they can spend 10 times as much money as everybody else?

The excitement!

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:56 PM
  #874
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Because the players are the business and aren't replaceable, while the owners clearly are replaceable.
Because all the players and all the owners are all the same as the ones from the 80's.

Both are replaceable. Players are generally more easily replaceable than billionaires.

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12-13-2012, 06:57 PM
  #875
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
I've been saying this for a few days now. It's amazing how the owners have swung sentiment to where fans want them to get everything now. It's time they relent on the contract thing for an 8 year CBA and lets play.
If the difference was just 8 years (and even that is a 60% increase on the limit the owners want) maybe they would be close to a deal. But there's still the gap in variance (back diving contracts would still be alive and well in the players proposal, NHL is not going to accept that), the CBA term differences are much bigger than they appear on paper (owners want 10 w/ Owners opt out at 8, players want 8 w/ PLAYER opt out at 6). And on top of those differences, players added poison pills such as compliance buyouts, escrow limits and mod level exceptions, all back door attempts by the NHLPA to receive more than 50% or the revenue on TOP of make whole.

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