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Roster Talk '13 — Canada V4.0 (Final Roster Named)

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Old
12-13-2012, 08:01 PM
  #651
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Let's come back to the bolded players after the tournament - except for Danault who I think is a shoo in on any team. I feel like these are the types of players that are going to be exposed in this tournament and turn into useless tweeners. If there was ever a year to pick more rugged players with defensive acumen it is in a lockout year. No one is going to shutdown RNH/Huberdeau. Even the 06 team had such high scorers as Jeremy Colliton, Stephen Dixon and Colin Fraser.
Llol who are they going to put infront of the net, hudon, Lipton tea, drouin ??? Llolll
Goodby Canada , hope they pick a better coach next year. Oh by the way Murphy sucks big time.

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12-13-2012, 08:01 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Let's come back to the bolded players after the tournament - except for Danault who I think is a shoo in on any team. I feel like these are the types of players that are going to be exposed in this tournament and turn into useless tweeners. If there was ever a year to pick more rugged players with defensive acumen it is in a lockout year. No one is going to shutdown RNH/Huberdeau. Even the 06 team had such high scorers as Jeremy Colliton, Stephen Dixon and Colin Fraser.
Well your examples of Fraser, Colliton and Dixon are sort of weird. Fraser played for Sutter in Red Deer so it was a familiarity thing like Murphy now, while Colliton and Dixon were returning players from 2004, no way they were getting cut. They were your Howden/Jenner type players at that time. Not stars but moving parts and this team has those too with guys like Danault, Lipon and Jenner.

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12-13-2012, 08:03 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
Oli Maata disagrees

Also, the last time HC sent a team with no forward taller than 6'1 was in 2009.... and I will stop there
Makes no sense since there are 3, plus 3 exactly that height. This isn't a team full of small players. Have people actually looked at the height and weight of potential US and Russian rosters?

Team Canada
5'10.5" x 1
5'11" x 2
5'11.5" x 1
6' x 3
6'1" x 3
6'2" x 1
6'3" x 1
6'4" x 1

Average weight is 188.

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12-13-2012, 08:03 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Taking defensive guys doesn't work, their defense doesn't end up meaning much but they hold the puck far less and have things like the Russian debacle happen.

Taking skilled guys who are a lot tougher than some people make them out to be, but who also hold the puck a lot wins tournments. Many (Including myself) called Hay a diaster-in-waiting before the tournement, and his style was. Spott knows how international tournements are won in todays game, not the game of 15 years ago like Hay did. Cameron of 2 years ago was similar but he made an effort to take more skilled guys, but ended up cutting the 2 top defensemen in camp (Murray and Murphy), while both of those guys were tearing up their leagues and were much more talented then guys he took.

Which reminds me of that 2011 world junior camp. It was before most people knew who Murphy was, no one around to say he was horrible defensively; at least no one that got taken seriously, and he as well as Murray were the two guys really had a problem with taking. Not to mention many had them slotted together in the top 6, but many now despite Murphy being 10x the defender want him as the 7th.

Russian debacle, you mean losing 6-5?

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12-13-2012, 08:03 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
Last year's team lacked high-end offense and players that could create dynamic moments/scoring chances out of thin air. This is fixed this year while you still have your grinders/worker bees. It's going to be one of the best entries ever.
Take a look at last years team again.

Skill Guys:
Bournival
Connolly
Huberdeau
Pearson
Scheifele
Schwarz
Stone
Strome

Grinders:
Gallagher
Hamilton
Howden
Jenner
DSP

The problem wasn't too many grinders but rather the skill guys turned into useless tweeners. Bournival, Connolly, Pearson and even Scheifele were moreorless useless in the tournament. Meanwhile the four (DSP hurt) grinders all made a huge impact in the tournament.

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12-13-2012, 08:04 PM
  #656
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Pretty polarizing line-up; people are either loving the speed & skill or hating the lack of size & toughness.

One thing I do like is seeing Team CANADA diverging from their previous line-up philosophy. Will it work? I don't know, but it is reassuring to see them try something different.

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12-13-2012, 08:04 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Russian debacle, you mean losing 6-5?
The hole they put themselves in. A more skilled team; despite not being the same level defensively/physically, would have held the puck more and not imploded like that.

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12-13-2012, 08:05 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Taking defensive guys doesn't work, their defense doesn't end up meaning much but they hold the puck far less and have things like the Russian debacle happen.

Taking skilled guys who are a lot tougher than some people make them out to be, but who also hold the puck a lot wins tournments. Many (Including myself) called Hay a diaster-in-waiting before the tournement, and his style was. Spott knows how international tournements are won in todays game, not the game of 15 years ago like Hay did. Cameron of 2 years ago was similar but he made an effort to take more skilled guys, but ended up cutting the 2 top defensemen in camp (Murray and Murphy), while both of those guys were tearing up their leagues and were much more talented then guys he took.

Which reminds me of that 2011 world junior camp. It was before most people knew who Murphy was, no one around to say he was horrible defensively; at least no one that got taken seriously, and he as well as Murray were the two guys people really had a problem with them not taking. Not to mention many had them slotted together in the top 6, but many now despite Murphy being 10x the defender want him as the 7th.
You guys know nothing. Yzerman took a big rugged team to Vancouver in 2010 and won gold.
This team will win against Germany and maybe Finland if they meet. Lllolllll

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12-13-2012, 08:07 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Take a look at last years team again.

Skill Guys:
Bournival
Connolly
Huberdeau
Pearson
Scheifele
Schwarz
Stone
Strome

Grinders:
Gallagher
Hamilton
Howden
Jenner
DSP

The problem wasn't too many grinders but rather the skill guys turned into useless tweeners. Bournival, Connolly, Pearson and even Scheifele were moreorless useless in the tournament. Meanwhile the four (DSP hurt) grinders all made a huge impact in the tournament.
Yeah, when Bournival and Pearson are your ultra-skill guys... don't exactly know what you're expecting. Schiefle, Strome and Huberdeau were 18 as well, this is a 19-year-old tournament. This entry with RNH, those high picks a year older, and these high-end offense guys like Drouin and MacKinnon will be very dangerous and light this tournament up. Stamkos and Tavares ended up being some of the biggest contributors that one year. I firmly believe this is a good mix of skill and grit, you need the high-end offense.

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12-13-2012, 08:07 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
Well your examples of Fraser, Colliton and Dixon are sort of weird. Fraser played for Sutter in Red Deer so it was a familiarity thing like Murphy now, while Colliton and Dixon were returning players from 2004, no way they were getting cut. They were your Howden/Jenner type players at that time. Not stars but moving parts and this team has those too with guys like Danault, Lipon and Jenner.
I'm hoping Lipon proves me wrong but I don't feel like he belongs with the other two. Clarke MacCarthur would be another one from that dream team roster.

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12-13-2012, 08:08 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by MyNameIsNobody View Post
You guys know nothing. Yzerman took a big rugged team to Vancouver in 2010 and won gold.
This team will win against Germany and maybe Finland if they meet. Lllolllll
How many rugged players can you name on that team? Morrow, Perry, Weber, Pronger. A few outliers but it's actually less than this team. It was built on puck possesion and chemistry, not ruggedness. It was a highly skilled team who meshed together, unlike the 2006 team of old guys who didn't work well together.

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Old
12-13-2012, 08:09 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
I'm hoping Lipon proves me wrong but I don't feel like he belongs with the other two. Clarke MacCarthur would be another one from that dream team roster.
What are Camara and Ritchie then? Those are two straight up bangers with some skill, isn't that what you are looking for? I agree Lipon is more of an all-around versatile kind of guy not a big grinder/masher but he will slide in fine to a checker/role player role.

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12-13-2012, 08:11 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
It's not just hitting - though make no mistake this team will not dominate physically. It's moreso the defensive shutdown ability and board play that Canada usually excels with that I'm concerned about. Danault and Jenner are reliable but they will likely both be centres. Not much as far as shutdown wingers go on this roster. Spott went with pure skill.
ok so defensive centres on 2 of the 4 lines? and 4 willing and able wingers. This is Team Canada not a normal junior CHL team, these star players are capable of more things than just what they are known for

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12-13-2012, 08:11 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
Yeah, when Bournival and Pearson are your ultra-skill guys... don't exactly know what you're expecting. Schiefle, Strome and Huberdeau were 18 as well, this is a 19-year-old tournament. This entry with RNH, those high picks a year older, and these high-end offense guys like Drouin and MacKinnon will be very dangerous and light this tournament up. Stamkos and Tavares ended up being some of the biggest contributors that one year. I firmly believe this is a good mix of skill and grit, you need the high-end offense.
Well it was the best skill guys available with the NHL in session. That would have been a crazy team if the lockout was last year. I think Canada will win the gold medal in this tournament but I think we're in for more of these "Russian debacles" with the roster picked. This team can score in spades but it will also bleed goals in my opinion.

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12-13-2012, 08:13 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
How many rugged players can you name on that team? Morrow, Perry, Weber, Pronger. A few outliers but it's actually less than this team. It was built on puck possesion and chemistry, not ruggedness. It was a highly skilled team who meshed together, unlike the 2006 team of old guys who didn't work well together.
Off topic but the line that was built on skill and chemistry was the Sharks line and they were useless. People criticized the Richards, Morrow selections like crazy but in the end those guys made a huge difference while the one-dimensional skill guys ala Thornton, Marleau, Heatley were nowhere to be found.

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12-13-2012, 08:15 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
What are Camara and Ritchie then? Those are two straight up bangers with some skill, isn't that what you are looking for? I agree Lipon is more of an all-around versatile kind of guy not a big grinder/masher but he will slide in fine to a checker/role player role.
Oh I like Camara and Ritchie a lot. Lipon is a prime example of the type of player that I think will struggle in this tournament. He is expected to slide into the checker/role player role like you said but that's not his game and I don't think he'll be as effective as a guy like McNeill who I'm still shocked got cut. Guy was on fire coming in, had a good camp, draft pedigree, International experience, etc.

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12-13-2012, 08:15 PM
  #667
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Really surprised Brossoit was cut... especially after Binnington's performance today. Brossoit saw by far the most shots of any of the goalies, 2nd best save percentage (.960), and seemed most confident/adept handling the puck. Based on camp performance he absolutely deserved to be # 2 at least. I thought with his camp performance, plus an exceptional game against the Russians in the SSS he should have been on this team.

Makes me wonder if Spott had already decided to go with the 3 OHL'ers based on a level of familiarity/comfort before camp even started?

I feel bad for guys like Brossoit and Corrado who, based on their selection camp performance, should have made the team. I would have no problem with HC doing away with the selection camp and just picking a team based on things like summer camp, league play, and the SSS... it seems like they are pretty much doing that now.

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12-13-2012, 08:16 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
People say this now but might not be saying it once we play USA/Russia. This is a great roster for people that want to paste Germany 18-0. I'm not convinced it's a roster capable of winning close games on a regular basis. Not nearly enough defensive responsibility for my liking and I feel like some of these "skilled" forwards are going to turn into tweeners very quickly.
Yeah let's go to Russia on a big ice surface and bring a bunch of defensive minded players..we'd get killed. We have to bring speed and skill to the table. Size on a big ice surface isn't as important as being able to make plays. If this was played in Canada or the U.S then it's a different story. You have to look at each tournament differently. This tournament is going to be about which team can out skate the other. I'm glad HC is starting to change their mindset when it comes to tournaments hosted in Europe.

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12-13-2012, 08:17 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Off topic but the line that was built on skill and chemistry was the Sharks line and they were useless. People criticized the Richards, Morrow selections like crazy but in the end those guys made a huge difference while the one-dimensional skill guys ala Thornton, Marleau, Heatley were nowhere to be found.
Heatly useless? Are u guys for real? He was one of the guys throwing his weight on the Russians during the semis get real and go back and watch the game.

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12-13-2012, 08:18 PM
  #670
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Originally Posted by goaliedad29 View Post
Really surprised Brossoit was cut... especially after Binnington's performance today. Brossoit saw by far the most shots of any of the goalies, 2nd best save percentage (.960), and seemed most confident/adept handling the puck. Based on camp performance he absolutely deserved to be # 2 at least. I thought with his camp performance, plus an exceptional game against the Russians in the SSS he should have been on this team.

Makes me wonder if Spott had already decided to go with the 3 OHL'ers based on a level of familiarity/comfort before camp even started?

I feel bad for guys like Brossoit and Corrado who, based on their selection camp performance, should have made the team. I would have no problem with HC doing away with the selection camp and just picking a team based on things like summer camp, league play, and the SSS... it seems like they are pretty much doing that now.
Corrado was a bit off today and I think that tilted the decision. Dumba played himself off the team this week. Camara played himself on the team this week. As for the goalies I think Paterson and Subban were locked in from day one. Paterson because he's an underager and can return next year and Subban because he's the best we have. The other goalie was a crapshoot and Binnington's numbers are far better than Brossoit's this year.

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12-13-2012, 08:21 PM
  #671
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Yeah let's go to Russia on a big ice surface and bring a bunch of defensive minded players..we'd get killed. We have to bring speed and skill to the table. Size on a big ice surface isn't as important as being able to make plays. If this was played in Canada or the U.S then it's a different story. You have to look at each tournament differently. This tournament is going to be about which team can out skate the other. I'm glad HC is starting to change their mindset when it comes to tournaments hosted in Europe.
I don't think scoring was ever going to be a problem with 4 of the top 5 players in the tournament in Canada's top six forwards. I respect the disciplined approach with the refs overseas hence leaving Wilson off. This is the type of team that will cause heart attacks trying to play with leads late in close games. Hopefully they have an ample lead built up before that time which is very possible with all this firepower.

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12-13-2012, 08:22 PM
  #672
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Only us Canadians would debate a gold medal winning team..

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12-13-2012, 08:22 PM
  #673
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Heatly useless? Are u guys for real? He was one of the guys throwing his weight on the Russians during the semis get real and go back and watch the game.
I am the only person who is even close to being on your side in this discussion. Heatley was garbage for the vast majority of the tournament...

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12-13-2012, 08:22 PM
  #674
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Oh I like Camara and Ritchie a lot. Lipon is a prime example of the type of player that I think will struggle in this tournament. He is expected to slide into the checker/role player role like you said but that's not his game and I don't think he'll be as effective as a guy like McNeill who I'm still shocked got cut. Guy was on fire coming in, had a good camp, draft pedigree, International experience, etc.
I am a big Dub watcher and have seen Lipon and McNeill both tons, watched all the camp games, and for a bottom-six role as a checking winger I agree with the Lipon decision. McNeill can be really inconsistent, some games he might not even throw a hit unless he gets really mad. He has never really shown he can depended on to be intense for a really heavy stretch, Lipon was a battler in the playoffs last year, didn't see a lot of quit in him and a lot of determination. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

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12-13-2012, 08:24 PM
  #675
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Well, instead of obviously flaming us foolish enough to respond to you, why don't you explain your very liberal definition of rugged instead of making broad, sweeping generalizations?
Rugged

Strongly made and capable of withstanding rough handling.

This team is as soft as it comes. People on this board who approve of this selection will be the fist to ***** at the end of this tournament

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