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NHL Lockout XXVIII: Don't worry about the lockout. Let me worry about blank.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:35 PM
  #901
vanwest
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
So let me get this straight. If you guys were middle tier players right now, you'd be ok with the NHLPA dragging this out until the deadline?
There is no indication that the middle tier players aren't satisfied. I got into this debate before with others who claim the silent majority is about to revolt. I don't buy it but others do. The one thing that I think Fehr has done well is keep at least a united front throughout this. I'm not a fan of his but I think he has communicated well with the players. I'm sure that I will get flamed for that though!

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12-13-2012, 07:36 PM
  #902
Mike Jones
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
So let me get this straight. If you guys were middle tier players right now, you'd be ok with the NHLPA dragging this out until the deadline?
The economics for the players are horrible. You, as a player, are willing to sacrifice and lose a season and a half of salary - money you will not get back - just to make a point nobody cares about?

There has to be a diagnostic term to describe that kind of collective mental state. "Delusional" just doesn't seem to cover it anymore.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:38 PM
  #903
mossey3535
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
There is no indication that the middle tier players aren't satisfied. I got into this debate before with others who claim the silent majority is about to revolt. I don't buy it but others do. The one thing that I thank Fehr has done well is keep at least a united front throughout this. I'm not a fan of his but I think he has communicated well with the players. I'm sure that I will get flamed for that though!
I don't care what you or anyone thinks about how much the union is fractured. That kind of argument is a waste of time because neither of you can prove anything.

I'm asking YOU to put yourself in their shoes and answer the question. So the current bargaining tactics meet your needs? There is more than enough information for you to make an informed decision about this.

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12-13-2012, 07:38 PM
  #904
Bushay
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Is it the one that includes the Yankees in the playoffs nine out of every 10 years because they can spend 10 times as much money as everybody else?

The excitement!
The Yankees in the playoffs that many times is good for the overall health of the league. Ratings and revenue are at an all time high. Similar to what Bettman has done for the game. The flyers have spent as much money as any of them through the years and what do they have to show for it. Not a good comparison.

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12-13-2012, 07:40 PM
  #905
Crescent Street
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Can anyone tell me why these players should even have a union to begin with?

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12-13-2012, 07:42 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
So let me get this straight. If you guys were middle tier players right now, you'd be ok with the NHLPA dragging this out until the deadline?
If you listen to them on twitter and interviews it totally seems so....they have been "convinced" of their cause.

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12-13-2012, 07:46 PM
  #907
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Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for the kind words. Really appreciate it!

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Lucy. Lucy. Lucy.
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12-13-2012, 07:46 PM
  #908
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So... meeting tomorrow? Or no?

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:46 PM
  #909
flyers28giroux
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I guess the players did not learn their lesson eight years ago, and assume that they are going to win this battle which is not going to happen. It's pretty sad to watch.

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12-13-2012, 07:47 PM
  #910
MikeK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crescent Street View Post
Can anyone tell me why these players should even have a union to begin with?
Fehr told them it was a good idea.

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12-13-2012, 07:48 PM
  #911
Mike Jones
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Originally Posted by flyers28giroux View Post
I guess the players did not learn their lesson eight years ago, and assume that they are going to win this battle which is not going to happen. It's pretty sad to watch.
Wasn't much of a lesson - they won.

Which is why this current mess is so frustrating. What do they say? They're grabbing defeat out of the jaws of victory this time around.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:49 PM
  #912
LetangInTheSO
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Originally Posted by Crescent Street View Post
Can anyone tell me why these players should even have a union to begin with?
There are some valid reasons. Safety is actually chief among them. It's good that the players have a collective entity to push back on issues like scheduling, ice/arena conditions, training facilities, etc. Heck, even with these safeguards in place, it's been difficult to curtail some of the game's nasty injury problems. I would not want to see a league run with less regard for the players' safety (which would undoubtedly be the case absent a union). Moreover, before there was a union, the owners colluded to keep labor costs down. Nobody hates a union more than I do, but I don't really see a viable alternative to addressing the issues I've outlined above other than a union...

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12-13-2012, 07:51 PM
  #913
GeeoffBrown
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Originally Posted by flyers28giroux View Post
I guess the players did not learn their lesson eight years ago, and assume that they are going to win this battle which is not going to happen. It's pretty sad to watch.
Really? cuz it seems every time the NHL comes out with a "final offer" they seem to come up with an even better one the long the NHLPA holds out.

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12-13-2012, 07:56 PM
  #914
Stuck in Socal
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I can't believe we are gonna lose a whole season again. This is unbelievable. Oh we'll one more month till the drop date.

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12-13-2012, 07:58 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Tra La La View Post
Yep



Fehr was advising Goodenow back when they had the 2 year plan last time. Fehr never once planned on there being any hockey this season.
So if this goes until December 2013, just what exactly is it the players think they will have won?

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12-13-2012, 07:58 PM
  #916
FanSince2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
The economics for the players are horrible. You, as a player, are willing to sacrifice and lose a season and a half of salary - money you will not get back - just to make a point nobody cares about?

There has to be a diagnostic term to describe that kind of collective mental state. "Delusional" just doesn't seem to cover it anymore.
Not only the lost season and a half of salary, but if there is contraction down to 24 teams as has been mentioned, that's 150 lost player jobs.

Go PA!

Go for the WIN!!!

****-***s!

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:59 PM
  #917
StittsvilleJames
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Originally Posted by GeeoffBrown View Post
Really? cuz it seems every time the NHL comes out with a "final offer" they seem to come up with an even better one the long the NHLPA holds out.
Regardless of what the NHL is giving them, the deals are getting worse because it is costing them salary to get these better deals.

I mean, Sure, they get an extra 100 million in make whole, but that's only because the owners have saved more than that in salary! This is a ridiculous argument, and I wish people would stop making it.

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12-13-2012, 08:02 PM
  #918
PCooper
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
So let me get this straight. If you guys were middle tier players right now, you'd be ok with the NHLPA dragging this out until the deadline?
If it's me, at this point? Yes. I'm upset that we got this far in the first place and I sure as hell don't want to lose a season, but we've come this far, why not give it another 2-3 weeks and take it to the deadline? My boss has been telling me the best offer will come then, and the NHL has seemed to come back with offers that are a little bit better each time, after saying "that's it." So yeah, sure.

On the outside looking in it's stupid, they're losing another ridiculous paycheque (or two) and I'm really not sure the final deal will be much better than what's there now, but if I'm invested personally in this another couple weeks is fine by me.

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Old
12-13-2012, 08:07 PM
  #919
FanSince2014
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Originally Posted by PCooper View Post
If it's me, at this point? Yes. I'm upset that we got this far in the first place and I sure as hell don't want to lose a season, but we've come this far, why not give it another 2-3 weeks and take it to the deadline? My boss has been telling me the best offer will come then, and the NHL has seemed to come back with offers that are a little bit better each time, after saying "that's it." So yeah, sure.

On the outside looking in it's stupid, they're losing another ridiculous paycheque (or two) and I'm really not sure the final deal will be much better than what's there now, but if I'm invested personally in this another couple weeks is fine by me.
Oh, your boss said it?

I'm just gonna get off HFBoards for the next 2-3 weeks.

His boss said it.


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Old
12-13-2012, 08:07 PM
  #920
DyerMaker66
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
That's probably not the best argument in the world. In fact, it doesn't make much sense at all. There is so much more to it then what you just posted. I don't even know where to begin.

But... care to elaborate?
Why do I need to elaborate? The NHL doesn't exist without the top 700 players in the world; the nhl can exist without the owners: They are merely place-holders. The community could run the franchises if they chose to and if the population wanted them to. Ron Burkle is not needed in the best hockey league in the world, Sidney Crosby is.

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Old
12-13-2012, 08:09 PM
  #921
One7nine
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Not saying either side is right or wrong but when negotiating contracts that cover groups of people you have to remember that the concessions and give backs that you make this year are the baseline for the concessions and givebacks that will be expected next time you have to sit at the table.

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Old
12-13-2012, 08:10 PM
  #922
DyerMaker66
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Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
Owners are replaceable but there are far more available players than owners. An owner is a lot harder to replace than a player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Because all the players and all the owners are all the same as the ones from the 80's.

Both are replaceable. Players are generally more easily replaceable than billionaires.
They aren't needed though: The government of Ontario could run the Leafs if they (and their population) wanted to. Owners are just the middle-man.

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Old
12-13-2012, 08:11 PM
  #923
Nose of Sutter
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I'm curious for people's opinions here, what do you guys think happens to the PA and the league for that matter if this season is lost? Will it be good or bad for either side? (obviously it will be bad for both parties but as far as maybe negotiating the next CBA or just an ego or psychological win for either side)

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Old
12-13-2012, 08:12 PM
  #924
tbcwpg
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They aren't needed though: The government of Ontario could run the Leafs if they (and their population) wanted to. Owners are just the middle-man.
Theoretically, yes. Realistically, no.

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Old
12-13-2012, 08:13 PM
  #925
who_me?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crescent Street View Post
Can anyone tell me why these players should even have a union to begin with?
the only legal way to extort money.

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