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Sadly here is proof the owners never planned on hockey in December

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Old
12-13-2012, 02:26 PM
  #51
DL44
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Do people not think the NHL has already derived schedules for every scenario already?

I would bet at the time they did original schedules where they are privy to every building schedule,,
..they likely (and easily could of) did a Nov 2nd 82 game schedule, a Dec 1st schedule, a Dec 15th schedule and Dec 31st schedule, as well as a Mid-Jan schedule - probably the final chance schedule..

I would find it mind-boggling if they didn't..

Of course admitting to such a thing, people would jump on Bettman for lying by stating he hasn't contemplated a drop dead date.. but here's the thing... he doesn't have to contemplate a drop dead date because the schedule and calender dictates it for him.
WE could use common sense to figure that out.. well.. the media already has anyway.

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12-13-2012, 03:32 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
No, you can't.
Why not? In today's day and age, you have teams submit their arena availability, and let a computer figure out some possible schedules based on various criteria and logarithms, and let the league look through the generated schedules to verify that one will work. If the league needs a schedule pronto, I have no doubt they could come up with one in a week. You haven't given any concrete reason they couldn't, and shy of an intimate knowledge of the process, I really doubt you can.

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12-13-2012, 03:35 PM
  #53
madhi19
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Even if a CBA would have been signed, the entire schedule would have had to be redone anyway, so they would have just not scheduled a game in NY on that day.
Exactly what I was about to post the moment they started cancelling games the old schedule went by the window. The Rangers would have just played on the road yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Why not? In today's day and age, you have teams submit their arena availability, and let a computer figure out some possible schedules based on various criteria and logarithms, and let the league look through the generated schedules to verify that one will work. If the league needs a schedule pronto, I have no doubt they could come up with one in a week. You haven't given any concrete reason they couldn't, and shy of an intimate knowledge of the process, I really doubt you can.
I think that all the league really need to come up with a schedule is 24 hours. They get updated well in advance of all booking and all teams are told to leave enough dates open so the main variable will be travel arrangement for Refs and league officials. The TV networks would likely need more time than the league anyway.


Last edited by madhi19: 12-13-2012 at 03:41 PM.
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12-13-2012, 04:55 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
I am making this a new thread as I want the media people who have have the ability to email Bill Daly or other NHL officials to explain to us how MSG could book this concert on 11/15

Proof the NHL owners had no intention of playing in December? The Sandy concert was announced on November 15th

http://www.billyjoel.com/news/all-st...urricane-sandy

The Montreal-Rangers game was NOT cancelled until a week later on November 23rd

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-...all-star-game/


Please do not merge this in the lockout thread where it will be lost - this shows the NHL had NO INTENTION of settling.

You do realize the old schedule has been canceled long ago? Maybe all of the new schedules had the Rangers on the road on the 15th.

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:04 PM
  #55
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They've rescheduled individual games in the past because of extreme weather issues. There's no reason they couldn't have done the same with this.

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12-13-2012, 06:50 PM
  #56
Fugu
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Originally Posted by aj8000 View Post
And most likely lockouts that could end at any moment. I would be willing to bet that there was a clause regarding moving the concert date if the lockout had ended and the arena was required for the above mentioned game.
They may be doing it on a rolling basis, e.g., as more games are cancelled, they re-do the schedule based on the arena dates that are already set months in advance.

Concerts aren't that easy to re-schedule. Let's say you have, oh, The Rolling Stones touring the US and Canada. You can't just tell them to come back a couple days later, due to their own schedule and the logistics of setting up equipment (or the ice) and so on.

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Originally Posted by bustaheims View Post
They've rescheduled individual games in the past because of extreme weather issues. There's no reason they couldn't have done the same with this.
They add a game often as a back-to-back the next time the two affected teams play. If they can't do that, it may get tacked on to the end of the season.

You are talking about 1 game though. What's being discussed is the rescheduling of nearly 50 games for 30 teams in 30 different venues.

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12-13-2012, 07:08 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
They add a game often as a back-to-back the next time the two affected teams play. If they can't do that, it may get tacked on to the end of the season.

You are talking about 1 game though. What's being discussed is the rescheduling of nearly 50 games for 30 teams in 30 different venues.
Sure, but this whole discussion spiralled out of the theory that the league allowing an event that would have resulted in rescheduling a single game meant they had no intention of having games in December.

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Old
12-13-2012, 07:27 PM
  #58
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most players had contracts that had the break agreement on december 15th to 20 to return to NA until Jan 6th here in Europe

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12-13-2012, 07:33 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
That makes no sense since the NHL would require a balanced schedule. Don't believe what the media is feeding you.

Actually it makes perfect sense.

If they had only lost say twenty games they would have just picked right up where they were. Now that they are looking at a 48 (or slightly more) game season the schedule will have to be redone and they expect to only play within their own conference. There has been talk of how unfair that will be to Detroit and Winnipeg.

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12-13-2012, 07:34 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Conflicted Habs fan View Post
Compelling evidence to show how the NHL is operating on a predetermined timeline. You have to admire the overly buttered faux angry Bettman who put up a truly drama queen performance for our consumption.
I wonder what he would have done had the players given in to their demands and signed. He probably would have refused and held out for even more.

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12-13-2012, 07:36 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Why not? In today's day and age, you have teams submit their arena availability, and let a computer figure out some possible schedules based on various criteria and logarithms, and let the league look through the generated schedules to verify that one will work. If the league needs a schedule pronto, I have no doubt they could come up with one in a week. You haven't given any concrete reason they couldn't, and shy of an intimate knowledge of the process, I really doubt you can.
I saw something on TV a year or two ago that showed that the NHL still does their schedule manually - they do not use a computer. That isn't to say they couldn't come up with a schedule in a week, just that it wouldn't be done on a computer.

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12-13-2012, 08:57 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You are talking about 1 game though. What's being discussed is the rescheduling of nearly 50 games for 30 teams in 30 different venues.
They re-did 48 games for all the teams last shortened season. Why do you feel they were able to do it then but would be unable to do it now?

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12-13-2012, 09:00 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
I saw something on TV a year or two ago that showed that the NHL still does their schedule manually - they do not use a computer. That isn't to say they couldn't come up with a schedule in a week, just that it wouldn't be done on a computer.
Interesting. I remember reading about the couple who *used* to do the schedule manually. They switched to computer generated schedules and that's when it started being so crazy with screwed up travel, etc. I wonder if what you saw means they wised up and went back to having good old humans do this?

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12-13-2012, 09:14 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
They re-did 48 games for all the teams last shortened season. Why do you feel they were able to do it then but would be unable to do it now?
This. Why are people insisting that this would have been a truncated schedule, instead of a rebuilt-based-on-48 games schedule, like last shortened season? They removed cross-conference games, and the season extended into May.


Last edited by Turbofan: 12-13-2012 at 09:23 PM.
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Old
12-13-2012, 09:23 PM
  #65
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This would not be grounds for a lawsuit as the OP said.

I believe that the back of your ticket has a section about canceling/rescheduling the game without notice. Even if the season started on time and the Rangers wanted to move this game to fit the concert in on 12-12-12, they could have done that and you agreed to allow them to move the date of the game when you bought the ticket.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:36 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
There is nothing shady.

The schedule would have to be completed redone once a new CBA has been reached.

You don't just pick up with the schedule that was originally created.
Got it on post # 12. Once you go past the point of being able to save an 82 game schedule, the whole thing would need to be re-done to ensure competative balance. I'm sure the league has many schedules in place depending on the start date. In this day and age redoing a schedule is not rocket science. It's not like they have some guy in a back room with a pad of paper, pencil, eraser and a calendar spread out in front of him.

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:03 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
They re-did 48 games for all the teams last shortened season. Why do you feel they were able to do it then but would be unable to do it now?
You know this for a fact, or was someone just remembering how they think it happened 18 yrs ago?

I'm not sure what the NBA did.

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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Got it on post # 12. Once you go past the point of being able to save an 82 game schedule, the whole thing would need to be re-done to ensure competative balance. I'm sure the league has many schedules in place depending on the start date. In this day and age redoing a schedule is not rocket science. It's not like they have some guy in a back room with a pad of paper, pencil, eraser and a calendar spread out in front of him.

You can't ensure everything once your season is chopped up. You have inflexible arena dates, which again, are set months ahead of time. Now, the dates that were committed to NHL games are probably still open, but you have to re-do completely the travel schedules. What if the team you want to play on your available dates [for your competitive balance schedule] has the same home dates blocked out? Or the travel doesn't work out because teams don't want to be ping pong balls across their conferences?

What you do have is the schedule as already set with specific teams and specific arena dates. Doing your approach requires reinventing the wheel while jumping through all sorts of hoops to get dates and travel to line up, but this time without the months of lead time on the arena dates. It's not like the arena operators haven't been working to fill around the NHL schedule once it was released.

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12-13-2012, 10:05 PM
  #68
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The Killers concert was canceled on December 14th. Things like this do happen, and sometimes they happen in advance. So that date potentially becomes available for maneuvering the Rangers there and bumping the 12/12/12 date (and reworking the schedule for games player in a row and other issues.)

There's also a week in January with open dates for Montreal, the Rangers, and MSG it would appear. Obviously, the All-star break isn't happening. How does anyone here know that the teams didn't already find an alternate date in advance? Perhaps, and I know this is hard to consider, they were even required to submit an alternate date? Perhaps, there are already alternate schedules already made up?

While there could be something to this, there surely isn't any kind of causality worth mentioning being presented here. There's also a number of reasonable reasons that are just as likely as to what would have happened with the schedule that still allow for the 12/12/12 concert to have gone forward as it did.

,
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Old
12-13-2012, 10:18 PM
  #69
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Obviously the league can't go off the old schedule, but they still go through the procedure of chopping off the schedule to free up dates for booking other events. Many of the same dates that were scheduled for home games would still be used in a short season, but not all will be regardless. The Devils had 22 home games scheduled from January 31 on in the old schedule, they're probably not gonna be playing any 22 home games in that short a time period now.

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12-13-2012, 11:09 PM
  #70
colchar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Interesting. I remember reading about the couple who *used* to do the schedule manually. They switched to computer generated schedules and that's when it started being so crazy with screwed up travel, etc. I wonder if what you saw means they wised up and went back to having good old humans do this?
Could be. Unfortunately, I don't remember squat about the details except that it is done manually. I am fairly certain it was on a CBC show like W5 or something like that. I suppose we might find the info with some judicious searching on Google.


Last edited by colchar: 12-17-2012 at 08:50 PM.
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Old
12-13-2012, 11:16 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You know this for a fact, or was someone just remembering how they think it happened 18 yrs ago?
Here is the results of all games from the shortened season, which started on January 20th.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leag...995_games.html

Here is the original schedule (part 2, starting from January)

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...ey/S4yvZn72RbM

They are nothing alike.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:24 PM
  #72
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This was a relief concert on short notice. I'm sure potential Rangers games is not a top priority at a venue like Madison Square Garden where something could be happening literally every night, and especially when it could be used to raise much needed funds for residents!!

My understanding on dates was at the beginning of the year teams were told they could book up to 30 days out from current date.

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12-13-2012, 11:28 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You know this for a fact, or was someone just remembering how they think it happened 18 yrs ago?
I tried to find the original 1994-1995 schedule (the one for all 82 games) to compare it to the shortened schedule, but have been unsuccessful. The quote and link below should be enough, as I've also included links to the season before and the season after the shortened season showing that there was play between conferences back then so not having them in 1994-1995 was the change they made to accommodate having only 48 games.

Quote:
Regular season
Due to the 199495 NHL lockout, the league shortened the season length from 84 games, the length of the previous two seasons, to 48. Furthermore, the season would last from January 20 to May 3; this was the first and only time in NHL history that the regular season extended into May. Regular-season games would be limited to intra-conference play (Eastern Conference teams did not play Western Conference teams).
Wikipedia

Link to 1995-1996 schedule showing play between conferences:
Click here

Link to 1993-1994 schedule showing play between conferences:
Click here

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Old
12-14-2012, 12:47 AM
  #74
KaylaJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Here is the results of all games from the shortened season, which started on January 20th.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leag...995_games.html

Here is the original schedule (part 2, starting from January)

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...ey/S4yvZn72RbM

They are nothing alike.

Also note all the cities those games were supposed to be played in. That whole season (which is actually listed in the 94-95 NHL Guide & Record Book, with Messier on the cover) featured several non NHL markets.


As for the NBA, yes, they had to make a whole new schedule. In fact it was known the NBA would have to make a new schedule in October after they canceled the first few weeks in November because Clippers & Chicago got permission from the NBA to give away scheduled late November/December dates. Interestingly enough by the time Nov 30th came around there was already a tentative agreement in place for a new CBA and by the time Dec 13 rolled around the lockout was over with training camp having opened on Dec 9thish.


Last edited by KaylaJ: 12-14-2012 at 01:15 AM. Reason: had a herp derp moment
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Old
12-14-2012, 02:51 PM
  #75
HansH
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Actually it makes perfect sense.

If they had only lost say twenty games they would have just picked right up where they were.
Um, no.

Even IF by some miraculous occurrence, the date of the start of the season happened on a day when EXACTLY twenty games had been cancelled for ALL THIRTY TEAMS (which would never happen, as teams play different numbers of games in the same stretch all the time), you STILL would have to completely re-do the schedule because not every team would have lost 10 home games and 10 road games. Some would have lost 7 home and 13 road, some would have lost 14 home and 6 road.

You honestly think that an owner would accept that he gets less ticket revenue than his fellow owner, because he has fewer home games left in the truncated (not re-done) schedule?

Balderdash.

As soon as we went past a single week of game cancellations, there was going to be a re-done, not truncated, schedule. Anyone who doesn't realize that isn't looking at basic math, home/away balance, and calendars.

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