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Derrick Pouliot | Defenseman | Portland (WHL) | 1st Round, 8th overall

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12-13-2012, 03:06 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
I saw a tweet that sums up my opinion really well on Morrow:

""Two months into his rookie season, and three days past his 20th birthday, it looks like itís time for the training wheels to come off for Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins defenseman Joe Morrow."

He goes and posts a -4 rating that night. I may be underestimating how long it takes a defender to adjust to a new team, but last night was inexcusable.
You are. He needs to play better for sure, but this is a totally different system. Despres has had his struggles as well. All of these dmen take time to adjust to the pro game. The best looking rookie dman has been Dumoulin and he played under virtually the same system in college. Let's be patient with Joe.

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12-13-2012, 03:14 PM
  #677
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You are. He needs to play better for sure, but this is a totally different system. Despres has had his struggles as well. All of these dmen take time to adjust to the pro game. The best looking rookie dman has been Dumoulin and he played under virtually the same system in college. Let's be patient with Joe.
I saw an interview on the Pens website where Dumoulin said that his coach showed his team clips of Pens games and said "this is the system that we are going to run". When you have people like Kreider on your team as well, I can understand why. Also remember that Despres has mostly been mediocre his whole AHL career, but was solid in the NHL in his 20 games or so. Maybe some players just under-perform in the AHL.

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12-13-2012, 03:40 PM
  #678
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I saw an interview on the Pens website where Dumoulin said that his coach showed his team clips of Pens games and said "this is the system that we are going to run". When you have people like Kreider on your team as well, I can understand why. Also remember that Despres has mostly been mediocre his whole AHL career, but was solid in the NHL in his 20 games or so. Maybe some players just under-perform in the AHL.
Yup. Some players excel in the AHL but can't translate that to the NHL for a number of reasons (Chris Bourque is a good example). Other players seem to better in the NHL. From what I saw of Despres in the NHL last year, I'm not overly concerned about his play in the AHL. Morrow may be the same way. He already has an elite NHL point shot, skating ability, and physicality. He just needs to adapt to the system and work out the kinks. I think both will be fine.

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12-13-2012, 04:00 PM
  #679
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I dont see why looking for players in the NHL that put up PPG in the WHL would be good for? Are you saying if you put up PPG in the WHL youre a lock to make the NHL? Since you say not many ppl have done it, it almost sounds like its a disadvangtage scoring at PPG? Morrow was a PPG player last year, and while i think hes gonna break out of his slump hes far from a lock of being a successful NHLer. Kichton has done it 3 seasons in a row counting this one, and i dont see him crusing into the NHL anytime soon either.

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12-13-2012, 04:47 PM
  #680
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For Pouliot, it's the rest of his game I'm more interested in seeing vast improvements in. I have very little concerns about Pouliot's ability with the puck on his stick. It's how effective he is when the puck isn't on his stick that will determine whether he'll be a legitimate top pairing defenseman who can be trusted in all situations, or a guy who needs sheltered minutes defensively and whose only real task is running the PP.

If he can follow a guy like Letang's career trajectory, I'll be ecstatic. But I'd be a little disappointed if Goligoski is Pouliot's upside, simply because I'd want a defenseman taken that high to be utilized in all game situations, not just the offensive ones. (note: not suggesting Goligoski is a train wreck defensively, just that he's not someone you'd ideally want playing PK or on the ice with a 1 goal lead with a minute to go in the third period)

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12-13-2012, 04:53 PM
  #681
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Looking over Pouliot's overall makeup, I would be pretty pleased with a Goligoski, honestly. People often forget that GoGo's offensive abilities were very, very high level. And as much flak as he got for his defensive deficiencies (and there were certainly moments)... he wasn't a complete disaster. Better than other offensive or even "two way" defensemen around the league.

If Pouliot displays the same ability with the puck at the highest level as Goligoski did... I think we'd probably have to call that a win. Depending on how much you get hung up on draft position, of course. Which could obviously turn out to be pretty important considering what was potentially left on the table.

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12-13-2012, 04:54 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
If he can follow a guy like Letang's career trajectory, I'll be ecstatic. But I'd be a little disappointed if Goligoski is Pouliot's upside, simply because I'd want a defenseman taken that high to be utilized in all game situations, not just the offensive ones. (note: not suggesting Goligoski is a train wreck defensively, just that he's not someone you'd ideally want playing PK or on the ice with a 1 goal lead with a minute to go in the third period)
Depends if there turn out to be any great all situation defenders in the draft that were picked after him. Still, it really doesn't matter. A guy like Karlsson had tremoundously positive impacts on games this past season and he hardly played on the PK.

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12-13-2012, 05:06 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
For Pouliot, it's the rest of his game I'm more interested in seeing vast improvements in. I have very little concerns about Pouliot's ability with the puck on his stick. It's how effective he is when the puck isn't on his stick that will determine whether he'll be a legitimate top pairing defenseman who can be trusted in all situations, or a guy who needs sheltered minutes defensively and whose only real task is running the PP.

If he can follow a guy like Letang's career trajectory, I'll be ecstatic. But I'd be a little disappointed if Goligoski is Pouliot's upside, simply because I'd want a defenseman taken that high to be utilized in all game situations, not just the offensive ones. (note: not suggesting Goligoski is a train wreck defensively, just that he's not someone you'd ideally want playing PK or on the ice with a 1 goal lead with a minute to go in the third period)
I've heard comparisons to Letang for Pouliot, and I can definitely see the similarities. If he becomes as good as Letang, I'll poop bricks. I think a lot more likely comparison is Whitney or Goligoski. Remember, Gogo is a number-2 D, and is a lot better now than he was in Pitt (as in defensively, he's a lot better).

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12-13-2012, 05:19 PM
  #684
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Depends if there turn out to be any great all situation defenders in the draft that were picked after him. Still, it really doesn't matter. A guy like Karlsson had tremoundously positive impacts on games this past season and he hardly played on the PK.
Really, I'd be fine with another Gogo. Pouliot's upside is probably at least a better Gogo, and I'd be happy with that. My only issue is that Pouliot isn't a really big shooter (as in he doesn't have a hard shot like Morrow), and he is more of a passer. We need someone with a cannon, not another passer. Then again, we have Morrow, who (hopefully) will develop like he's supposed to.

And I don't really care if Pouliot would play on the PK, because we will have Harrington, Dumoulin (he's huge), Letang and Despres on the PK.

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12-13-2012, 09:17 PM
  #685
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I've heard Brian Campbell and Duncan Keith comparisons as his ceiling and I'd say it's closer to Brian Campbell. I haven't seen him play much at all really, but noticed a couple of things. Seems like a very smooth skater, maybe even smoother than Letang, with less explosiveness though. Also, he seems to use his skating to thwart for-checkers and as soon as he can has that head up looking for passes he can make. He seems to make decisions with the puck on his stick very quickly. The thing I liked most about him when reading up on him was that he may be the best passing defenseman from the past draft, and it wouldn't surprise me if that turns out to be true. I think he could learn some things from Harrington as far as using his skating and smarts to defend because he definitely has the wheels to.

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12-13-2012, 09:29 PM
  #686
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I've heard Brian Campbell and Duncan Keith comparisons as his ceiling and I'd say it's closer to Brian Campbell. I haven't seen him play much at all really, but noticed a couple of things. Seems like a very smooth skater, maybe even smoother than Letang, with less explosiveness though. Also, he seems to use his skating to thwart for-checkers and as soon as he can has that head up looking for passes he can make. He seems to make decisions with the puck on his stick very quickly. The thing I liked most about him when reading up on him was that he may be the best passing defenseman from the past draft, and it wouldn't surprise me if that turns out to be true. I think he could learn some things from Harrington as far as using his skating and smarts to defend because he definitely has the wheels to.
No, I think Rielly has that honor of the best passer, but the rest I agree with. I couldn't remember the comparison I heard, which was Campbell, so I just used Gogo, which works as well. I think I heard Morrow compared to Keith though.

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12-13-2012, 09:34 PM
  #687
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Nobody expected Pouliot to make team Canada on draft day and that was when we thought there'd be an NHL season. I don't see this as much of a surprise.
Neither do I. The surprise was that he was drafted 8th, and the annoying thing is that we were the ones to do so.

This is the only downer about Pouliot being a Pen. He is clearly a good/very good prospect, but if Grigorenko and Forsberg for instance - two prospects the likes of which we surely needed more - are not going to be significantly better NHL'ers, I am going to be super surprised.

Heck, I am not convinced that Pouliot is top6 among best Pens D-prospects. Not just here and now ability where obviously he isn't, but as regards NHL impact down the line. Adding such a player with an 8th overall pick, considering the forward pipeline and the availability of much more highly touted talents.... that just blew my mind.

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12-13-2012, 09:38 PM
  #688
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Neither do I. The surprise was that he was drafted 8th, and the annoying thing is that we were the ones to do so.

This is the only downer about Pouliot being a Pen. He is clearly a good/very good prospect, but if Grigorenko and Forsberg for instance - two prospects the likes of which we surely needed more - are not going to be significantly better NHL'ers, I am going to be super surprised.

Heck, I am not convinced that Pouliot is top6 among best Pens D-prospects. Not just here and now ability where obviously he isn't, but as regards NHL impact down the line. Adding such a player with an 8th overall pick, considering the forward pipeline and the availability of much more highly touted talents.... that just blew my mind.
He's number 1, according to HF. I'd trust them more than some random guy ranting on the internet

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12-13-2012, 10:02 PM
  #689
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Zing! I suppose we will just have to see.

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12-13-2012, 10:11 PM
  #690
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Joe Morrow has never played for Canada at the WJC right? I think people are putting too much weight on that tourney.

Don't start with the Morrow was drafted 23rd, DePo 8th. 2012 was a ****** draft class I hope everyone can come to terms with that.

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12-13-2012, 10:26 PM
  #691
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Joe Morrow has never played for Canada at the WJC right? I think people are putting too much weight on that tourney.

Don't start with the Morrow was drafted 23rd, DePo 8th. 2012 was a ****** draft class I hope everyone can come to terms with that.
No arguments here. When the 3rd overall pick barely played at all the year before, you know there's something wrong there.

And I think Morrow either got cut on the final cuts or he did play. I'm leaning on the 1st.

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12-13-2012, 10:26 PM
  #692
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Joe Morrow has never played for Canada at the WJC right? I think people are putting too much weight on that tourney.

Don't start with the Morrow was drafted 23rd, DePo 8th. 2012 was a ****** draft class I hope everyone can come to terms with that.
What does overall quality of the draft class have to do with anything? People are directly comparing Pouliot to the more highly-touted players available at #8.

There's obviously much yet to be decided, but Pouliot's going to be under a microscope because he was an off-the-board pick, in the top 10, as a major piece of a trade involving a young star, at a position where our cup already runneth over.

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12-13-2012, 10:41 PM
  #693
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What does overall quality of the draft class have to do with anything? People are directly comparing Pouliot to the more highly-touted players available at #8.

There's obviously much yet to be decided, but Pouliot's going to be under a microscope because he was an off-the-board pick, in the top 10, as a major piece of a trade involving a young star, at a position where our cup already runneth over.
Nothing, but I've seen that argument used to justify the case of Morrow before.

Clearly some people here have already written off DePo after 6 measly months. Hockey Canada runs a tighter ship than camps Grigs and FF are apart of, and we shouldn't gauge his development based on the WJC.

Who cares how highly-touted FF and Grigs were. We don't know who's the better player yet. The fact that people are saying that this pick sucks is just stupid on their part. Get over it. You're not in the office, at the rink, or even in the business.

People need to relax and just let things pan out. That's all I'm saying. **** half of the people here were writing off Bennett in September and now they are all over his ****. If DePo turns out to live up to his potential I can guarantee the same people who criticized him will do the same.

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12-13-2012, 11:16 PM
  #694
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Nothing, but I've seen that argument used to justify the case of Morrow before.
Alright, but this is a Pouliot thread, and we're talking about his selection over certain other players in the 2012 Draft.

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Clearly some people here have already written off DePo after 6 measly months. Hockey Canada runs a tighter ship than camps Grigs and FF are apart of, and we shouldn't gauge his development based on the WJC.
If anybody's writing off Pouliot or judging him based solely on not making the WJC team, they deserve all the criticism they get.

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Who cares how highly-touted FF and Grigs were. We don't know who's the better player yet. The fact that people are saying that this pick sucks is just stupid on their part. Get over it. You're not in the office, at the rink, or even in the business.
Believe it or not, a good portion of people here make concerted efforts to see these prospects and develop opinions on them. Discussing those opinions, even when they don't mesh with the team's, is what the Hockey's Future message board was designed for.

Sometimes people who aren't in the office, at the rink, or even in the business end up being right (and there's usually dissenting opinions from those within the game, too). Stick around and see.

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People need to relax and just let things pan out. That's all I'm saying. **** half of the people here were writing off Bennett in September and now they are all over his ****. If DePo turns out to live up to his potential I can guarantee the same people who criticized him will do the same.
Is that so?

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12-13-2012, 11:40 PM
  #695
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Alright, but this is a Pouliot thread, and we're talking about his selection over certain other players in the 2012 Draft.



If anybody's writing off Pouliot or judging him based solely on not making the WJC team, they deserve all the criticism they get.



Believe it or not, a good portion of people here make concerted efforts to see these prospects and develop opinions on them. Discussing those opinions, even when they don't mesh with the team's, is what the Hockey's Future message board was designed for.

Sometimes people who aren't in the office, at the rink, or even in the business end up being right (and there's usually dissenting opinions from those within the game, too). Stick around and see.



Is that so?
Honestly, I don't understand why you feel the need to patronize me with a condescending reply. I understand that a large proportion of individuals on this board make an effort to understand the game of hockey, and specifically take an interest in the Penguins organization. With that comes a great deal of knowledge.

I'm not questioning anyones opinion. I'm just surprised that people are so capable of basing such a strong opinion without having everything come together.

And your bolded part...really? I don't want to dig too far deep (or at all), but c'mon. A lot of people have been writing off Bennett for awhile. The fact is, a lot of people posting here seem to jump the gun with prospects.

I can give you a condescending reply and say that while people have an opinion on DePo, I have an opinion on posters here. I'm not attacking anyone, kinda like you are, and I respect peoples opinions. With that said, a lot of posts seem to be "DePo sucks, pick sucks, our scouting sucks". No empirical evidence to support it.

As for the bolded part: sure people may end up being "right", but that plays into the hindsight argument. If someone can give me a comprehensive and concrete argument focusing on why DePo was the absolute wrong decision then go for it, but until then stop acting like you know how things are going work out.

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12-14-2012, 12:06 AM
  #696
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Honestly, I don't understand why you feel the need to patronize me with a condescending reply. I understand that a large proportion of individuals on this board make an effort to understand the game of hockey, and specifically take an interest in the Penguins organization. With that comes a great deal of knowledge.
I'm not being condescending. I'm clearly outlining the function of the site, as the insinuation seemed to be that people who weren't involved in the game in a professional capacity weren't allowed to have a dissenting opinion.

Quote:
I'm not questioning anyones opinion. I'm just surprised that people are so capable of basing such a strong opinion without having everything come together.
Again. Hockey's Future, not Hockey's Present.

And that's not condescension, that's pointing out a fact that's being overlooked.

Quote:
And your bolded part...really? I don't want to dig too far deep (or at all), but c'mon. A lot of people have been writing off Bennett for awhile. The fact is, a lot of people posting here seem to jump the gun with prospects.
Yes, really. Most people who have taken issue with the Bennett pick have only done so relative to Kuznetsov, they weren't writing him off as a prospect. There's a difference.

I don't mean to harp on this, but people are misrepresenting positions here.

Quote:
I can give you a condescending reply and say that while people have an opinion on DePo, I have an opinion on posters here. I'm not attacking anyone, kinda like you are, and I respect peoples opinions. With that said, a lot of posts seem to be "DePo sucks, pick sucks, our scouting sucks". No empirical evidence to support it.
No.

Quote:
As for the bolded part: sure people may end up being "right", but that plays into the hindsight argument. If someone can give me a comprehensive and concrete argument focusing on why DePo was the absolute wrong decision then go for it, but until then stop acting like you know how things are going work out.
Evaluating a prospect based on personal viewings, professional rankings, and statistics is not a hindsight argument. It is the exact opposite of a hindsight argument.

Several people throughout the thread have explained in great detail what they like and dislike about Pouliot, and why they believe a prospect like Grigorenko or Forsberg would've been preferable.

Going on record as disliking a pick doesn't mean you're pretending you know how things will work out any more than going on record as liking it does. It means you've developed an opinion, that's it.

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12-14-2012, 12:33 AM
  #697
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What does overall quality of the draft class have to do with anything? People are directly comparing Pouliot to the more highly-touted players available at #8.

There's obviously much yet to be decided, but Pouliot's going to be under a microscope because he was an off-the-board pick, in the top 10, as a major piece of a trade involving a young star, at a position where our cup already runneth over.
Ok, this stuff really, really annoys me. What board? Whose board? Just because the national collection of scouting services had Pouliot a whole, what, 8 picks lower (?), he becomes some massively unconventional pick? What about all the other teams that had Pouliot in their Top-10 (which there were)? Are they just out to lunch?

It's been said before and I'll say it again. If every team released their Top-30, there would be a massive amount of people going "Huh?? What are they thinking," just because it would contrast with the general consensus lists generated by a mass scouting services. Just silly..


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12-14-2012, 12:37 AM
  #698
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Yes, I understand the purpose of the site. Yes, I understand that some people have explained their reasoning behind their lack of hope with DePo. Not sure why you think otherwise. I'm addressing the fact that if you intend to make these bold assumptions then just please support them with solid opinion (which some have), and not just saying "that pick sucked, Grigs > DePo, WTF were we doing". That just shows a lack of knowledge, ignorance to the process and impatience.

Again, all I'm trying to say is people are entitled to their opinion, but I'd like to understand why they have this opinion. YOU can read in between the lines all you want, but really you're picking at straws. I'm on your side here champ.

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12-14-2012, 01:18 AM
  #699
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He's number 1, according to HF. I'd trust them more than some random guy ranting on the internet
And me, I'll trust the Penguins scouts who feel DePo is the best passing Dman in the 12 draft over some guy running an Internet hockey site. That's just how I go....

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12-14-2012, 05:56 AM
  #700
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And me, I'll trust the Penguins scouts who feel DePo is the best passing Dman in the 12 draft over some guy running an Internet hockey site. That's just how I go....
What, someone using logic? What is this blasphemy?

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