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Justin Schultz

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:55 AM
  #451
simplefan
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
The way Schultz plays, having players like RNH, Eberle, Hall definitely makes him more potent but I seriously think you're understating his game. He's a puck possession type player. He's driving the play. He doesn't need others to be effective.

And of course you can project him to be like Karlsson. Why does what Karlsson's original projection matter? That doesn't make any sense.

Also you do realize that the OKC Barons aren't even in a playoff spot right? And are only 10th best at scoring in the AHL? Not exactly killing it for a team so stacked.
I never questionned his talent level. The way he plays is really impressive. But the only reason I would compare him to Karlsson or project him to be a Karlsson type of player is that his team, thus being stacked, is not really tearing it up. No matter how much you score in the AHL, if you don`t have that extra drive like Karlsson and Schultz have, you can`t translate to the NHL


So like Karlsson, he IS the dynamo of his team in the AHL. If he keeps playing like this, Justin Schultz will be an incredible player. Not many defensemen can be dynamos, heck not many players are so important that if all a team doesnt work, he can win a game by himself.

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12-13-2012, 11:58 AM
  #452
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Erik Karlsson is a REALLY REALLY special player. No one expected him would be that good....not offensively necessarily. But to be such an effective defenseman.

You cannot project Schultz to be like Karlsson because Karlsson was not initially projected to be a number 1 defenseman....maybe a number 2 with liabilities. But he`s a solid number 1 defenseman.

Schultz is a really interesting defenseman. He could end up being a Mike Green. But sorry, he`s playing on a stacked team and if he didn`t have those talented players he would be posting much humble numbers, about 10-20 pts in 20 games. Heck Karlsson posted 0 g 11 a in the AHL in 12 games with such a bad team.
How about no? 10 points is laughable and shows that you haven't been watching him this year. 20 points IMO is still on the low side of what he'd have if he played on another AHL team, I'm still thinking he'd be at 25+ points and still leading all D in scoring. He has been that good. Hell he may even have more points if he weren't relied upon so heavily on the PK.

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Old
12-13-2012, 12:00 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
How about no? 10 points is laughable and shows that you haven't been watching him this year. 20 points IMO is still on the low side of what he'd have if he played on another AHL team, I'm still thinking he'd be at 25+ points and still leading all D in scoring. He has been that good. Hell he may even have more points if he weren't relied upon so heavily on the PK.
So tell me in the NHL, you would project him to score how much:

20G 50A
30g 60a


In the AHL, how much without RNH, Eberle, Hall, Paarjavi.....:

10G 20A ?


I`m kinda ignorant

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12-13-2012, 12:29 PM
  #454
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It's easier to teach a young guy defence than it is to teach a young guy how to be an offensive catalyst from the back-end.

Oilers should be envied for picking up this potential stud.

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12-13-2012, 12:32 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by simplefan View Post
So tell me in the NHL, you would project him to score how much:

20G 50A
30g 60a


In the AHL, how much without RNH, Eberle, Hall, Paarjavi.....:

10G 20A ?


I`m kinda ignorant
In the AHL as long as he had a few good playmakers on his team I'd say that he'd be sitting around the 8-18-26 mark or so and as high as 30 points. He has been a driving force on our club and often times our best offensive player on a team with Hall, RNH, and Eberle. That is not something to be taken lightly IMO.

For the NHL, it's really hard to say. I figured that if he played a full rookie year he would've had the most productive rookie year by a D since Myers. His long terms potential? It's tough to say, he'll be expending more energy on defense at the next level although he probably won't be relied upon as our top PK guy so that could offset it a bit. 30 goals by a D is insane and something that we've only seen from Green in recent years so I would be hard pressed to "bet" on him getting there. That said I could see him being a point/game guy in his prime years if he reaches his full potential and continues to be here with our team full of highly skilled forwards. 20 goals could also be within reach for him in his prime. Now I realize these numbers sound extremely lofty and homerish, but he has shown me enough at the AHL level to make me think that he could get there, whether he does or not will depend on his transition to the next level and how he is able to balance his energy at both ends of the rink.

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12-13-2012, 12:33 PM
  #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
It's easier to teach a young guy defence than it is to teach a young guy how to be an offensive catalyst from the back-end.

Oilers should be envied for picking up this potential stud.
It was basically a free high lottery pick, we are VERY lucky to have gotten him.

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12-13-2012, 01:01 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
In the AHL as long as he had a few good playmakers on his team I'd say that he'd be sitting around the 8-18-26 mark or so and as high as 30 points. He has been a driving force on our club and often times our best offensive player on a team with Hall, RNH, and Eberle. That is not something to be taken lightly IMO.

For the NHL, it's really hard to say. I figured that if he played a full rookie year he would've had the most productive rookie year by a D since Myers. His long terms potential? It's tough to say, he'll be expending more energy on defense at the next level although he probably won't be relied upon as our top PK guy so that could offset it a bit. 30 goals by a D is insane and something that we've only seen from Green in recent years so I would be hard pressed to "bet" on him getting there. That said I could see him being a point/game guy in his prime years if he reaches his full potential and continues to be here with our team full of highly skilled forwards. 20 goals could also be within reach for him in his prime. Now I realize these numbers sound extremely lofty and homerish, but he has shown me enough at the AHL level to make me think that he could get there, whether he does or not will depend on his transition to the next level and how he is able to balance his energy at both ends of the rink.
with the way he's playing, he can finish the year 80 pts

But in the NHL, you expect him to be better than Doughty, Letang, Karlsson, Rielly.
Thats unrealistic.

Having watched him, i see him as a Green type of player which fits in perfectly in Oilets dynamic. He projects to be Karlsson's competition for years.

He will be a 50-70 pts puck moving defenseman, playing top minutes, PK

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12-13-2012, 01:53 PM
  #458
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we are very lucky to have won the schultz sweepstakes, he will definately be competition for karlsson. he will be playing with more talented players once the nhl starts and i dont think his production will be any different. as for his dgame its pretty decent he is generally very good position wise and has great hockey i.q he will fit into the nhl fairly well and will get much better with time. i see him taking rookie of the year

i can't wait till he proves all the doubters wrong :p

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12-13-2012, 01:57 PM
  #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplefan View Post
with the way he's playing, he can finish the year 80 pts

But in the NHL, you expect him to be better than Doughty, Letang, Karlsson, Rielly.
Thats unrealistic.

Having watched him, i see him as a Green type of player which fits in perfectly in Oilets dynamic. He projects to be Karlsson's competition for years.

He will be a 50-70 pts puck moving defenseman, playing top minutes, PK
One of these is not like the others.

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12-13-2012, 02:08 PM
  #460
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haha yeah i like how rielly fits into that category somehow

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12-13-2012, 02:16 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
One of these is not like the others.
Those are literally the words I was thinking when I read that.

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12-13-2012, 02:18 PM
  #462
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I like Justin Schultz, because of him we got Gardiner

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12-13-2012, 04:37 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by OilFury View Post
haha yeah i like how rielly fits into that category somehow
Don't laugh, i mentionned his name to please Leaf fans. Speaking about Rielly, it leads to another discussion, who will be better Schultz or Rielly, which I will not engage in.

My point is people pencil Schultz to be a 90 pts dman which he will not be, at least not naturally. Let me explain, with RNH,Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, expect his numbers to be boosted greatly.

Karlsson plays for a **** team, and he scores 78 pts. He's obviously the only dynamo of the team.

I'm not questionning if Schultz will be, which I think he might be. I'm just saying until he proves himself, there's no way he will be better than Letang, Doughty and Karlsson.

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12-13-2012, 05:51 PM
  #464
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you mention rielly with doughty and karlsson etc to please leaf fans when he hasn't even played a pro game? :p why not please oil fans and say schultz is the next paul coffey then?

yes playing with the kids will definately boost his production, as does karlsson playing with spezza,michalek,alfredsson

ohwell we will see whenever there is a season.. if theres a season?

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12-13-2012, 06:49 PM
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplefan View Post
with the way he's playing, he can finish the year 80 pts

But in the NHL, you expect him to be better than Doughty, Letang, Karlsson, Rielly.
Thats unrealistic.

Having watched him, i see him as a Green type of player which fits in perfectly in Oilets dynamic. He projects to be Karlsson's competition for years.

He will be a 50-70 pts puck moving defenseman, playing top minutes, PK
Currently 23gp. 11-23-34

The AHL season is 76 games. That would mean that in his next 53 games he would get 46 points? Suddenly his ppg would fall from 1.478 down to 0.868? Basically falling off by 0.610 points/game? When he's only had all 3 of RNH, Hall, and Eberle in the lineup for a dozen games? Meanwhile we expect him to fall that hard when in all likelihood he will be playing at least 30 of his last 53 games with all 3? I don't see it.

As for him being "better" than guys like Doughty and Pietrangelo, I never said that he would be, they are both far superior 2 way players and are much physically stronger than Schultz, however he could be better than them offensively which is what we were talking about. Doughty's best offensive season to date was 59 points, Pietrangelo's was 51. While both could and likely will improve on those numbers sometime in the next 3-4 years I don't see why Schultz should be considered an inferior offensive player to them. Of course he hasn't played at the NHL level yet, but what he has shown at this level is nothing short of amazing.

IMO 50 points in his prime is setting the bar too low considering the forwards that he should be playing with and the PP that we should have. That said he might not hit 50 for a year or two until he settles into the NHL game.

Take a look at this list, he is so far clear of every other D in the league right now scoring wise that it is nothing short of incredible. Gardiner had 30 points in the NHL last year and Schultz has twice as many points in 1 more game. Faulk was one of the brightest young D in the NHL last year (22 points in 66 games) and he's 14 points back despite playing on a very good Charlotte team. OEL had 32 points last season and is the only D that has played 15 or more games who is over 1PPG and he's just a hair over it with 17 points in 16 games. All 3 of the guys that I've listed above are young and improving as well, it's not like they have seen their best days fly by.

He is currently outscoring a guy that had 76 points in the NHL last year. Karlsson (78 points) was the only D last season to have outscored Eberle in the NHL. Not saying that it's the same, but it is kind of a mind **** when you think about it IMO.

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12-13-2012, 07:27 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by simplefan View Post
Don't laugh, i mentionned his name to please Leaf fans. Speaking about Rielly, it leads to another discussion, who will be better Schultz or Rielly, which I will not engage in.

My point is people pencil Schultz to be a 90 pts dman which he will not be, at least not naturally. Let me explain, with RNH,Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, expect his numbers to be boosted greatly.

Karlsson plays for a **** team, and he scores 78 pts. He's obviously the only dynamo of the team.

I'm not questionning if Schultz will be, which I think he might be. I'm just saying until he proves himself, there's no way he will be better than Letang, Doughty and Karlsson.
This post makes me want to bang my head against a wall. Find me one post where someone claimed Schultz will come in and be better than those 3, or put up 90 points in his rookie year

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12-13-2012, 07:32 PM
  #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplefan View Post
Don't laugh, i mentionned his name to please Leaf fans. Speaking about Rielly, it leads to another discussion, who will be better Schultz or Rielly, which I will not engage in.

My point is people pencil Schultz to be a 90 pts dman which he will not be, at least not naturally. Let me explain, with RNH,Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, expect his numbers to be boosted greatly.

Karlsson plays for a **** team, and he scores 78 pts. He's obviously the only dynamo of the team.


I'm not questionning if Schultz will be, which I think he might be. I'm just saying until he proves himself, there's no way he will be better than Letang, Doughty and Karlsson.
Jason Spezza had arguably his best NHL season last year. Michalek also scored over 30 goals. You are selling these guys short.

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12-13-2012, 10:47 PM
  #468
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You lost Schultz for nothing because your GM didn't sign him or trade him before he hit free agency. Schultz had no obligation to play for the Ducks and had every right to test the market. It sucks, but it happens. See Blake Wheeler or Riley Nash.

I'd take the bolded with a grain of salt. The accusations made by members of the Ducks organization are just one side of the story so it's silly to take them as fact. It would make sense for them to lie to get a little sympathy or to try to cover up their own incompetence by claiming Schultz misled them.
Its not accusations when in interviews Schultz said the same thing to the reporters. How Edmonton was always the place he had in mind, and blah blah blah.

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12-13-2012, 11:20 PM
  #469
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Jason Spezza had arguably his best NHL season last year. Michalek also scored over 30 goals. You are selling these guys short.
This Ottawa team is filled with 3/4th line players. Michalek was not a factor on any of the goals scored. He just had the chance of being fed by Karlsson and Spezza. Then, Spezza being primarily a passer needs quality wingers to pass to, not 4th line scrubs. Alfredsson is 40 years old now.

This is why I said Ottawa was such a bad team.

#PAUSE. 2011-2012, Jason Spezza's best season? Offensively? No. He posted above 90 pts before, twice I think. All around? Definitely.

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12-13-2012, 11:43 PM
  #470
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Jason Spezza had arguably his best NHL season last year. Michalek also scored over 30 goals. You are selling these guys short.
And that's where it ends (plus an old Alfie) for the Sens offensive output. Make no mistake, our team was poor.

Does Karlsson project to be Karlsson ever again? Karlsson might settle as a 70 point player. Not valid to say you can't compare because Shultz will not get 80 points.

Karlsson is a smooth/quick skater, hold the pucks and can skate from end to end, and shoots a ton. If Shultz has some of those attributes and projects to be 50+ scorer in the NHL, it's a valid to compare the two. Specifically, does Shultz pass the puck (like Redden) or also rush/carry (like Karlsson)?

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12-14-2012, 01:04 AM
  #471
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Don't laugh, i mentionned his name to please Leaf fans.
Lmao! awesome.

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12-14-2012, 01:34 AM
  #472
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Schultz is very impressive. Gardiner is a natural comparison to make, as they played on the same team, and play a somewhat similar style. Gardiner I think is a little faster, and a bit more of a natural in his own end, but Schultz seems to be on another level offensively. Much better wrist shot, better puck handler, better hockey IQ, just a smoother and more dangerous offensive player. Gardiner put up 30 points as a rookie, and IMO should put up a number of 40-50 point seasons in his prime, so Schultz being quite a bit better offensively means he's a serious, serious talent. Obviously he hasn't proven himself in the NHL yet, but I don't think it's crazy to say that he has the upside to be one of the top offensive dmen in the league.

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12-14-2012, 01:42 AM
  #473
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Its not accusations when in interviews Schultz said the same thing to the reporters. How Edmonton was always the place he had in mind, and blah blah blah.
Schultz saying that he always had Edmonton in mind isn't some sort of confirmation that he misled the Ducks.

They are totally different things.

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12-14-2012, 01:58 AM
  #474
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Karlsson deserves a lot of credit as an offensive force. But at the same time, Spezza was having a fantastic year. His FO% was ridiculous.

Schultz is going to have way more issues than Karlsson.

1. He doesn't even have a roster spot yet (really he does, but don't tell Potter)
2. The Oil get stuck in their own zone way to often.
3. The best centers FO wise play on our 3rd/4th lines.
4. The west has much better goaltending than the east. (Aside from Lundqvist)
5. The Oil are always injury plagued.
6. And way more expectations from management

I love Karlsson, but it isn't fair to compare him and Schultz. Eventually Schultz "could" put up 70 points, but that relies heavily on the team as a whole. If Eberle scores, so does Schultz.

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12-14-2012, 02:12 AM
  #475
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Karlsson deserves a lot of credit as an offensive force. But at the same time, Spezza was having a fantastic year. His FO% was ridiculous.
Schultz is going to have way more issues than Karlsson.
I'm going to address these issues objectively:


1. He doesn't even have a roster spot yet (really he does, but don't tell Potter)
Let's be honest. The spot is his, and will be hard to lose
2. The Oil get stuck in their own zone way to often.
So did the Sens. Karlsson changed it. Hopefully Schultz will be able to thanks to the style of game he plays. He does need a great neutralizer of a D partner (A Smid-type) to help relieve pressure in the zone and retrieve the puck for him. I trust our centers' ability to help with the generation of a break-out.
3. The best centers FO wise play on our 3rd/4th lines.
This is a major problem. Schultz isn't going to be given much time with Horcoff/Belanger, and Gagner/RNH are poor FO players. Getting possession off the bat will definitely be difficult. A luxury Karlsson does enjoy in Ottawa.
4. The west has much better goaltending than the east. (Aside from Lundqvist)
This is definitely true. There is a noticeably stronger defensive presence in the WC, as well as better goaltending.
5. The Oil are always injury plagued.
It's true. And it tends to happen to our top-6 forwards more than anyone else
6. And way more expectations from management
Not a real factor IMO

I'm going to add a big one that I see:
7. Schultz doesn't have an NHL-calibre slapshot
While not amazing, Karlsson's slapshot is definitely effective and allows him to get a lot of goals. Schultz and Karlsson have arguably equal wrist shots, but a defenseman's bread and butter should be their slapshot. Teams are going to figure out really quick that they don't need to respect Schultz's slapshot or one-timer, and it may remove his effectiveness on the PP.

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