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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
12-14-2012, 07:29 AM
  #76
DesertDawg
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WOW
Hanzal on the Oilers' 3rd line? He was the #1 center for the team that made it to the conference finals! Talk about undervaluing a player...

The shortsightedness of the OP in valuing the Coyote's needs by trading their #1 center, a position that the Coyotes have a need to strengthen. Or that the Flyers would be willing to trade Couturier and Simmonds for a rookie. Or what that #1 draft pick will mean (could be the best player involved or valued as a through in).

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Old
12-14-2012, 09:27 AM
  #77
Rutkowski
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If there's not a season and the lottery is made in the same way that the last one was that first rounder isn't worth THAT much. Sure, it's a first-rounder, but it's not going to be a particularly early one on average.

But hey, this is a steal for the Coyotes, didn't you know? Nevermind that it'd make Boyd Gordon our #2 center.

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12-14-2012, 09:57 AM
  #78
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I think people are evaluating the Coyotes side of things through the scope of fantasy hockey. Eberle would lead the team in scoring. There would like be more points, overall, in replacing Yandle and Hanzal with Eberle and Gagner. All of this is true.

The Coyotes have not enjoyed success by being a team with great fantasy value on the roster. They win because they are maddening to play against. They are a boa constrictor of a team. Keeps you close until you slip up and than chokes you out. Very difficult to play against. Martin Hanzal is as important a gear in this machine as any other player we have. Substituting Hanzal would Gagner makes us tremendously easier to play against. We instantaneously become an extremely soft team. Doan and Hanzal are the only two physical presences in the top six that help us not get completely run over night after night.

Do this deal and we've only got Doan left. Beyond that it is Eberle, Vrbata, Sullivan, Gagner, Vermette, Boedker, and Korpikoski anchoring the top nine. That is not a team that wins hard fought battles and playoff rounds. I know it probably sounds ridiculous to non Coyotes fans that one guy, Martin Hanzal, can change the complexion of the team so much, considering his offensive output, but it is frankly undeniable.

People tend to emphasize the loss of Whitney and point to it as a reason why Vrbata will become ineffective. There is a reason why both Vrbata and Whitney resurrected their careers in Phoenix. That reason is largely Martin Hanzal. He does every single bit of actual work for the entire line. Makes life pretty easy of guys like Whitney and Vrbata.

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Old
12-14-2012, 10:03 AM
  #79
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Couturier and Simmonds for Yakupov? I wouldn't do that trade now because it's so unclear how good Yakupov will end up being. A few years down the road, it's possible we'd look back and say how it would have been a no-brainer for the Flyers, but I'd prefer to take the "safe" route and stick with the more proven guys.

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Old
12-14-2012, 10:22 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
WOW
Hanzal on the Oilers' 3rd line? He was the #1 center for the team that made it to the conference finals! Talk about undervaluing a player...

The shortsightedness of the OP in valuing the Coyote's needs by trading their #1 center, a position that the Coyotes have a need to strengthen. Or that the Flyers would be willing to trade Couturier and Simmonds for a rookie. Or what that #1 draft pick will mean (could be the best player involved or valued as a through in).
Pheonix has no legitimate number one scoring center. Hanzal is great at what he does, but he`s not a number one center on any other team. Basically, you`re only argument is whether or not he`s better than Coutourier, and at this point he`s proven more, but most teams would probably give the younger player with more offensive upside the better offensive time, and would give the more reliable defensive player the shut down, own zone time. So I don`t see how having Hanzal as the Oilers 3rd line center is so ridiculous.

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Old
12-14-2012, 10:44 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Pheonix has no legitimate number one scoring center. Hanzal is great at what he does, but he`s not a number one center on any other team. Basically, you`re only argument is whether or not he`s better than Coutourier, and at this point he`s proven more, but most teams would probably give the younger player with more offensive upside the better offensive time, and would give the more reliable defensive player the shut down, own zone time. So I don`t see how having Hanzal as the Oilers 3rd line center is so ridiculous.
I agree that Hanzal being a third center on some others teams isn't so ridiculous, and most other teams he wouldn't be more than a second right now, and thats really why any proposal involving him on these boards tend to go downhill real quick. Other teams/fans want to give up second/third line value for OUR top line center, so it simply will never work. Given our system, how effective Hanzal is in shutting down the top centers in our division, our lack of a true top line center and lack of any real depth at the position to speak of, trading Hanzal is tantamount to suicide if we aren't getting back what other teams would, rightfully from their standpoint of how their going to use Hanzal, consider massive overpayment based on how we have to use him.

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:28 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Hanzal is great at what he does, but he`s not a number one center on any other team.
Try Toronto

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:37 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Too bad you can`t logically remove that 8 point game. It makes as much sense as someone saying that Gagner will be a 150 point player if he can take those two weeks and do it for an entire year. Makes no sense at all, you can`t pick and choose your games.
Except statistical abnormalities getting removed is very relevant when it comes to a player's actual skill getting evaluated. If he had a couple of those games per season, or hell, during his career then yes they'd be relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Pheonix has no legitimate number one scoring center.
And yet he is Phoenix' first line center. No, he doesn't provide the points but he did let Vrbata and Whitney to it instead. Getting rid of him for a non-center only makes the problem worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sceva Sct View Post
I agree that Hanzal being a third center on some others teams isn't so ridiculous, and most other teams he wouldn't be more than a second right now, and thats really why any proposal involving him on these boards tend to go downhill real quick. Other teams/fans want to give up second/third line value for OUR top line center, so it simply will never work. Given our system, how effective Hanzal is in shutting down the top centers in our division, our lack of a true top line center and lack of any real depth at the position to speak of, trading Hanzal is tantamount to suicide if we aren't getting back what other teams would, rightfully from their standpoint of how their going to use Hanzal, consider massive overpayment based on how we have to use him.
Pretty much this, yeah.

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Old
12-14-2012, 12:07 PM
  #84
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...and as Coach Tip has stated, It's not 1 individual player, but how well each line plays well together, how each player compliments each other on both ends of the ice. Hanzal's worth is how he can keep the defensive limitations of his wings to a minimum impact and still chip in on offense. Also how he can assist in creating space for the odd man rushes. Or that he is not 1 dimensional, just because he is great on defense, which tends to hamper his stats, but he does have good hands, a big body and decent at face-offs. Yes he brings in a lot of intangibles that does not show up on the stats - except in wins - and isn't that the stat that really matters.

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Old
12-14-2012, 06:55 PM
  #85
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what about Yakupov for pk subban tinordi and a second choice ?

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Old
12-14-2012, 06:58 PM
  #86
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I was gonna say this proposal is a joke.

Then I saw who the op was. Not the least bit suprised.

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