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San Antonio Rampage @ OKC Barons, Friday 12/14 6PM MDT

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:24 AM
  #1
Bryanbryoil
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San Antonio Rampage @ OKC Barons, Friday 12/14 6PM MDT

@
RAMPAGE: 10-12-0-3 VS BARONS: 11-9-1-2

Game InfoGame Day: Friday December 14th 2012
Game Time: 6:00PM MDT

Radio:
PPV AHL Neulion


LineupsBARONS: TBD, My Guess At This Point
Hamilton #13-Arcobello #26-Eberle #7
Hall #22-Lander #16-Paajarvi #19
Hartikainen #10-Green #12-Cornet #15
Byers #34-Vande Velde #29-Pitlick #9

Deck #8-J. Schultz #5
Marincin #28-Teubert #33
Henry #39-Fedun #27

Danis #35
Roy #31

Scratches:

Healthy: D Plante #4

Injured: D Davidson #3 (Testicular Cancer), C Martindale #17 (Knee, Practicing With Team), C/W House #21 (Concussion, Practicing With Team), W Tyrvainen #14 (Broken Wrist), Ringwald #6 (Wrist)

Loaned To WJC's: C Nugent-Hopkins #18

Reassigned To Stockton: W Abney #36

Suspended: W Pelss #23


RAMPAGE: TBD Roster


Who to watch?BARONS TO WATCH: Anyone not named Hall, Eberle, or Schultz have been called out by the coaching staff and both the forward lines and the defense pairs have been juggled. It's time to see if they take it to heart or not. The Barons have the leagues best PP and the leagues worst PK, how often do you see a team so successful on one end of special teams and so brutal in the other?

RAMPAGE TO WATCH: Goalie Jacob Markstrom beat the Barons back to back games and was named AHL player of the week partly because of his play against the Barons.


Quotable"It's the same guys scoring goals we have to get contributions from other lines we just do and that's something that I can't explain, last year we had scoring spread around. I'm not running my lines any different and so those guys have to come to the party, enough's enough."-Barons head coach Todd Nelson after Tuesday's loss against Peoria on his teams lack of secondary scoring.


Season Series
DateLocationResult
10/19OKC 5-2 OKC
11/4San Antonio 2-0 San Antonio
12/8San Antonio 4-3 San Antonio
12/9San Antonio 3-2 San Antonio

Team Comparison
 BaronsRampage
Games2325
Points2523
Wins1110
GF7366
GA7075
Power Play %23.215.3
Penalty Kill %78.185.8


Team Leaders
BaronsRampage
GOALS: Eberle (14)Rallo (10)
ASSISTS:Schultz (23)Rheault and Shore (12)
POINTS: Schultz (34)Rheault (19)
+/-: Marincin (+11)Caruso (+4)



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12-14-2012, 02:30 AM
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If the Barons lose this game is it time to start thinking about firing Nelson?!?

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12-14-2012, 02:32 AM
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If the Barons lose this game is it time to start thinking about firing Nelson?!?
No, but you'd have to think that it won't be helping his cause to find work at the next level IMO.

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12-14-2012, 05:40 AM
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I for one am going to start calling for Nelson's head. He was stating in the last interview that he didn't have an idea why there was no secondary scoring this year. He looked lost and frustrated. Not exactly an inspiring picture of leadership.

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12-14-2012, 06:26 AM
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Yeah, I haven't been impressed with Nelson at all this year. Repeatedly in key moments this team is looking as if it is not organized and well coached. Excuses are over, its nearly Xmas and team still not looking like a team.

This is a club making critical errors at the worst times and resulting in giving away a lot of pts late in games. This club is finding ways to lose instead of win.

Against Peoria one goal down we get a key PP opportunity with 5mins left and just after Peoria had gained the lead. The club looked disorganized throughout the PP, could not enter in sync, had trouble getting possession in opponent end because of being outnumbered, and did not do one correct breakout in the whole PP. Nelson watches this futile attempt for the full two minutes then calls a time out with 1minute left and the team looked equally confused at that point and never had solid possession once while pulling the goalie and inevitably gave up the empty net goal. I'm not saying this is a reason to can a coach but its just the latest in a string of mismanagement and disorganization that I've seen.

Finally, Nelson mumbling about secondary scoring is inane when the team is playing no defined system in which to obtain secondary scoring. Most of us realize that when players aren't going they need to concentrate even more on doing the small things, covering, backchecking, and providing good defensive support to obtain puck possessions and provide puck support to get good puck movement and transition. Then work the puck downlow and drive and bang the net. I don't see this team doing that a lot. I see forwards jumping offence before the D has a chance to outlet the puck, I don't see consistenty puck support, I see forwards often far too apart from D, I also see forwards chronically getting caught in opposition end turning pucks over and odd man rushes coming against. 2 3 on 1's were granted in about 1min of play against Peoria. Inexcusable.

Nelson "can't explain it"? Its his job to know, figure it out, and explain the problems adequately to players. Pretty bad quote there. Doesn't inspire confidence.

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12-14-2012, 08:35 AM
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Funny how Nelson was considered a hero on these boards last season and now early into an AHL season he should be fired. Oh the joys of the Oiler board.

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12-14-2012, 09:03 AM
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Personally I feel that merely firing Nelson is inadequate, we probably need to go and kick his dog or key his car so that the message really gets through.

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12-14-2012, 09:45 AM
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The bad news is I'm starting to dread Barons games in the same way I dreaded Oilers games... do we have to play today?

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12-14-2012, 10:35 AM
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Hope yall dont mind if I put this in here.

Rampage Gameday


Just a little perspective from the other side.

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12-14-2012, 10:59 AM
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These line changes are going to go poorly. Putting Eberle, Hall, and Hartikainen on 3 seperate lines isn't going to increase even strength scoring.

Hopefully they can draw a lot of penalties.

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12-14-2012, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
These line changes are going to go poorly. Putting Eberle, Hall, and Hartikainen on 3 seperate lines isn't going to increase even strength scoring.

Hopefully they can draw a lot of penalties.
I think teams (I know for a fact the Rampage did) have been putting their best defensive players on a line and putting them out there against the #1 line of the Barons. In our case, it worked and the Barons got little to no secondary scoring. I think the shakeup might be to get some of the skill spread out, effectively negating the opportunity to shut them down and to also jumpstart some of those secondary players. I understand the logic behind it.

With all that said, I kind of agree with you. Not sure it's the best idea.

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12-14-2012, 11:13 AM
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Funny how Nelson was considered a hero on these boards last season and now early into an AHL season he should be fired. Oh the joys of the Oiler board.
Personally I was never a fan of him last season either. You can check that. You're assuming inconsistency where its probably more the case of just people having varied opinions on the coach.

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12-14-2012, 11:15 AM
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These line changes are going to go poorly. Putting Eberle, Hall, and Hartikainen on 3 seperate lines isn't going to increase even strength scoring.

Hopefully they can draw a lot of penalties.
One things that star players should be able to do is elevate the play of normal players. Its actually something thats good for a young player to get a grasp on and especially on a club like the Oil where we get lots of men down and lineup reconfiguration.

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12-14-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RampageNate View Post
I think teams (I know for a fact the Rampage did) have been putting their best defensive players on a line and putting them out there against the #1 line of the Barons. In our case, it worked and the Barons got little to no secondary scoring. I think the shakeup might be to get some of the skill spread out, effectively negating the opportunity to shut them down and to also jumpstart some of those secondary players. I understand the logic behind it.

With all that said, I kind of agree with you. Not sure it's the best idea.
The defensive strategy you just described would act to decrease primary scoring and increase secondary scoring. Other teams are clearly lining their best defensive players up against Hall and Eberle but that hasn't prevented them from scoring at all. In theory the rest of the line up should be getting softer match ups because the first line is attracting so much attention.

My concern here is that the new strategy teams like the Rampage will adopt is to converge on Eberle, Hall, and to a lesser extent Hartikainen because they know that no one else on the ice can really hurt them.

A recent example of this is the CHL teams containing Nail Yakupov during the Subway Series.

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12-14-2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
The defensive strategy you just described would act to decrease primary scoring and increase secondary scoring. Other teams are clearly lining their best defensive players up against Hall and Eberle but that hasn't prevented them from scoring at all. In theory the rest of the line up should be getting softer match ups because the first line is attracting so much attention.

My concern here is that the new strategy teams like the Rampage will adopt is to converge on Eberle, Hall, and to a lesser extent Hartikainen because they know that no one else on the ice can really hurt them.

A recent example of this is the CHL teams containing Nail Yakupov during the Subway Series.
You are absolutely right. That's what it should do. However, it's not currently working that way as none of the Barons secondary scorers are scoring with any consistency. Teams are almost saying, we are going to minimize what your #1 line does and take our chances with the others.

We aren't in disagreement about this. I'm not sure it's a good idea. But like I said, I do understand the logic behind it. The current strategy hasn't worked for 3 weeks. Time to shake things up.

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12-14-2012, 11:28 AM
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One things that star players should be able to do is elevate the play of normal players. Its actually something thats good for a young player to get a grasp on and especially on a club like the Oil where we get lots of men down and lineup reconfiguration.
That's a fine thing to say but here's what's going to happen: everytime Eberle and Hall touch the puck two defenders are going to converge on them leaving Arcobello, Hamilton, Lander, and Paajarvi a few seconds of opportunity to produce a scoring chance after Eberle or Hall are forced to dish the puck.
Spoiler alert: they will squander that opportunity.

Even Gretzky needed a Kurri on his line to produce.

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12-14-2012, 11:31 AM
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You are absolutely right. That's what it should do. However, it's not currently working that way as none of the Barons secondary scorers are scoring with any consistency. Teams are almost saying, we are going to minimize what your #1 line does and take our chances with the others.

We aren't in disagreement about this. I'm not sure it's a good idea. But like I said, I do understand the logic behind it. The current strategy hasn't worked for 3 weeks. Time to shake things up.
I agree with you that the secondary players haven't taken advantage of the opportunity provided for them.

At the end of the day I think the previous configuration was the lesser evil compared to this one.

Shaking the line up a bit makes sense. I'd even break Hall and Eberle up. However, I'd give Eberle Hartikainen to work with rather than Hamilton.

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12-14-2012, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RampageNate View Post
I think teams (I know for a fact the Rampage did) have been putting their best defensive players on a line and putting them out there against the #1 line of the Barons. In our case, it worked and the Barons got little to no secondary scoring. I think the shakeup might be to get some of the skill spread out, effectively negating the opportunity to shut them down and to also jumpstart some of those secondary players. I understand the logic behind it.

With all that said, I kind of agree with you. Not sure it's the best idea.
This was tried before when all of Hall RNH and Eberle were not producing together and failed. I think since you are missing a key part of the puzzle in RNH, Hall and Eberle might as well be playing on different lines. Arcobello can't handle the talent on his wings.

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12-14-2012, 11:34 AM
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That's a fine thing to say but here's what's going to happen: everytime Eberle and Hall touch the puck two defenders are going to converge on them leaving Arcobello, Hamilton, Lander, and Paajarvi a few seconds of opportunity to produce a scoring chance after Eberle or Hall are forced to dish the puck.
Spoiler alert: they will squander that opportunity.

Even Gretzky needed a Kurri on his line to produce
.
You must be young.

Actually Gretzky could produce with pretty much anybody. You're using the worst possible example to demonstrate your point. Dave Semenko scored an NHL hat trick playing on a line with Wayne Gretzky. When Blair Mcdonald famously wanted to re-up his contract after scoring a bunch of goals playing with Wayne the first NHL season Sather quipped: "So what, a fire hydrant could score 40 goals playing with Wayne Gretzky" Callighen's play was greatly elevated as well.

Wayne could produce with a lot of players. Jarri just happened to be the most complimentary player.

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12-14-2012, 11:40 AM
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Martindale and House are practicing with the team... any prognosis if they'll be back in the 3 game set this weekend?

Our PK is suffering badly.

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12-14-2012, 11:42 AM
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Yes Fire Nelson. If you can't win every single game by 10 goals then you are fired

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12-14-2012, 11:47 AM
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Yes Fire Nelson. If you can't win every single game by 10 goals then you are fired
How about if you haven't won a game since November 25, in the AHL, and with a collection of NHL stars in your lineup and what would likely be one of the better PP's in the NHL at your disposal.

What then?

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12-14-2012, 11:56 AM
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How about if you haven't won a game since November 25, in the AHL, and with a collection of NHL stars in your lineup and what would likely be one of the better PP's in the NHL at your disposal.

What then?
Hyperbole much? Give your head a shake. Lets fire the guy that had a great season last year over a stretch of what 5 games? Yep great GMs in this place.

The AHL is not some bush league. A couple of extra players isn't going to make some team invincible. If you haven't noticed every NHL is locked out and every team has a few guys that would be in the NHL right now if it was on.

11-9-1-2 is their record not 0-25

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12-14-2012, 11:56 AM
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You must be young.

Actually Gretzky could produce with pretty much anybody. You're using the worst possible example to demonstrate your point. Dave Semenko scored an NHL hat trick playing on a line with Wayne Gretzky. When Blair Mcdonald famously wanted to re-up his contract after scoring a bunch of goals playing with Wayne the first NHL season Sather quipped: "So what, a fire hydrant could score 40 goals playing with Wayne Gretzky" Callighen's play was greatly elevated as well.

Wayne could produce with a lot of players. Jarri just happened to be the most complimentary player.
I was alive during the seasons you're speaking about, but just barely.

Perhaps Gretzky wasn't the best example but the game has tightened up just a bit since the early 80s and none of these kids are going to be the greatest of all time. You should also note that Gretzky wasn't scoring with plugs in the late 80s through the 90s.

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12-14-2012, 12:00 PM
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Hyperbole much? Give your head a shake. Lets fire the guy that had a great season last year over a stretch of what 5 games? Yep great GMs in this place.

The AHL is not some bush league. A couple of extra players isn't going to make some team invincible. If you haven't noticed every NHL is locked out and every team has a few guys that would be in the NHL right now if it was on.

11-9-1-2 is their record not 0-25
A few guys? Check the lineup. We have 4 players that are, or would be NHL stars on any club in the NHL. We have several other players on the Barons with NHL experience and some of them being highly touted draftpicks.

Are you seriously going to sit here and argue that its all the same from one team to the next?

Nelson is coaching this absolutely stacked club to a losing record in the AHL. Can't be a problem though..

Or that he doesn't seem to know whats wrong.

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