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Ranking the teams top 6

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:05 PM
  #26
Nash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
what do you think about almost ALL of them playing in the KHL?
The KHL allows guys to play at a much younger age, but few if any are impact players on their squads.

As for Lessy claiming 6 guys could be in top six roles in the NHL, that's ridiculous. Only RNH is guaranteed. Most of the guys he is probably talking about are centers, which have a tough time transitioning immediately into the top two lines. Maybe Strome, since the Islanders are weak. Other than that, I don't see it.

The two junior programs have played the summer tournament and SSS. They are pretty even. Claiming one is clearly superior is silly. I give the edge to Russia based on number of returning players, home & international ice, and goaltending. Subban hasn't had the chance to change that last part, but may in Ufa.

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:25 PM
  #27
CRSeven
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1. Russia
2. Canada
3. Finland
4. Sweden
5. USA
6. Czech Republic

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Old
12-11-2012, 01:43 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash View Post
The KHL allows guys to play at a much younger age, but few if any are impact players on their squads.

As for Lessy claiming 6 guys could be in top six roles in the NHL, that's ridiculous. Only RNH is guaranteed. Most of the guys he is probably talking about are centers, which have a tough time transitioning immediately into the top two lines. Maybe Strome, since the Islanders are weak. Other than that, I don't see it.

The two junior programs have played the summer tournament and SSS. They are pretty even. Claiming one is clearly superior is silly. I give the edge to Russia based on number of returning players, home & international ice, and goaltending. Subban hasn't had the chance to change that last part, but may in Ufa.
Well to be fair, if they were impact players on KHL teams - they would either be KHL stars or all be like Kuznetsov- that would be extreme. Still, their 20+games experience at a very high level is quiet valuable, whereas all these claimed NHLers haven't played a single game yet, except RNH- and even he didn't play in NHL this year.

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Old
12-11-2012, 02:00 PM
  #29
Nash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Well to be fair, if they were impact players on KHL teams - they would either be KHL stars or all be like Kuznetsov- that would be extreme. Still, their 20+games experience at a very high level is quiet valuable, whereas all these claimed NHLers haven't played a single game yet, except RNH- and even he didn't play in NHL this year.
That depends on how you value development. There are merits to both playing tougher competition and to refining your game against your peers. Many prospects have been ruined by being rushed too early. Playing minimal minutes and not playing in the top six puts young players outside the role they are playing towards. Sometimes it kills their confidence and does less to improve them. Thriving in a lower league is sometimes best for younger guys. I think because the KHL plays fewer games and practices more that development isn't hurt as much. The NHL is different though. I'd rather see players have an extra year in the minors/juniors before stepping into the NHL, unless they are one of those one or two exceptional players each draft.

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Old
12-11-2012, 02:21 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Well to be fair, if they were impact players on KHL teams - they would either be KHL stars or all be like Kuznetsov- that would be extreme. Still, their 20+games experience at a very high level is quiet valuable, whereas all these claimed NHLers haven't played a single game yet, except RNH- and even he didn't play in NHL this year.
Scheifele has played 7 games in the NHL.

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Old
12-11-2012, 03:11 PM
  #31
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Russia
Canada
USA
Sweden
Finland
Czechs

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Old
12-11-2012, 03:33 PM
  #32
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1. Canada
2. Russia
3. Finland
4. Sweden
5. USA
6. Czechs

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Old
12-11-2012, 04:09 PM
  #33
DaveG
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1 - Russia
2 - Canada
3 - US
4 - Finland
5 - Sweden
6 - Czechs

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:30 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash View Post
The KHL allows guys to play at a much younger age, but few if any are impact players on their squads.

As for Lessy claiming 6 guys could be in top six roles in the NHL, that's ridiculous. Only RNH is guaranteed. Most of the guys he is probably talking about are centers, which have a tough time transitioning immediately into the top two lines. Maybe Strome, since the Islanders are weak. Other than that, I don't see it.

The two junior programs have played the summer tournament and SSS. They are pretty even. Claiming one is clearly superior is silly. I give the edge to Russia based on number of returning players, home & international ice, and goaltending. Subban hasn't had the chance to change that last part, but may in Ufa.
I guess I worded it poorly but never did I claim that 6 guys would have top six roles in the NHL at this point. RNH for sure and MAYBE Huberdeau/Scheifele but even those two would be a stretch. I did say however that 4-5 members of Canada's top six forward group would be in the NHL right now (not top six necessarily). RNH, Huberdeau, Scheifele and Strome would be in the NHL in all likelihood if there was a season right now.

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Old
12-11-2012, 09:32 PM
  #35
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RNH>Yakupov
Huberdeau>Grigorenko
Scheifele>Kucherov
Strome>Slepyshev
MacKinnon>Sigarev
Rattie>Zlobin

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:02 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
1 - Russia
2 - Canada
3 - US
4 - Finland
5 - Sweden
6 - Czechs
The most reasonable I've seen.

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Old
12-14-2012, 12:39 PM
  #37
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I think people that put Finland over Sweden or especially USA are overrating Finland. We're closest to the top-4 than we've been in years, but we're still not ahead in player material.

Canada
Russia
USA
Sweden
Finland
Czech Republic

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Old
12-14-2012, 12:46 PM
  #38
SmellOfVictory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Not to sound like a homer but anyone who doesn't have Canada first in this thread is delusional (while there's a lockout). The majority, if not the entire top six would be in the NHL right now with some being top 6 guys in the NHL...
Lockout being the major factor. With lockout, they're incredibly strong. Without lockout, they lose their top 3-4 forwards, pretty much guaranteed. Possibly Hamilton as well.

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Old
12-14-2012, 12:47 PM
  #39
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1.Russia
2. Canada
3. Sweden
4. USA
5. Finland
6. Czech Republic

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Old
12-14-2012, 12:50 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
RNH>Yakupov
Huberdeau>Grigorenko
Scheifele>Kucherov
Strome>Slepyshev
MacKinnon>Sigarev
Rattie>Zlobin
I'm not sure each of these are true. At least you can't really state them like facts. Besides what do you know of guys like Slepyshev and what info do you base these opinions on?

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:03 PM
  #41
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1. Canada - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Jonathan Huberdeau, Mark Schiefele, Ryan Strome, Nathan MacKinnon, Brett Ritchie

2. Russia - Nail Yakupov, Mikhail Grigorenko, Nikita Kucherov, Alex Khokhlachev, Maxim Shalunov, Anton Zlobin

3. U.S.A - Alex Galchenyuk, J.T Miller, Johnny Gaudreau, Stefan Noesen, Vince Trocheck, Rocco Grimaldi

4. Sweden - Filip Forsberg, Sebastian Collberg, William Karlsson, Victor Rask, Elias Lindholm, Rickard Rakell

5. Finland - Aleksander Barkov, Teuvo Teravainen, Joel Armia, Markus Granlund, Mikka Salomaki, Artturi Lehkonen

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:10 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Lockout being the major factor. With lockout, they're incredibly strong. Without lockout, they lose their top 3-4 forwards, pretty much guaranteed. Possibly Hamilton as well.
Absolutely. Without lockout they might not even be top 2 in the tournament. While there is a lockout however I don't think it's close.

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:12 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by YARR123 View Post
I'm not sure each of these are true. At least you can't really state them like facts. Besides what do you know of guys like Slepyshev and what info do you base these opinions on?
Which ones are even debatable? I'll admit I don't know much about Slepyshev but Ryan Strome has a pretty huge lead still in the OHL scoring race aka the best junior league in the world. He'd be in the best league in the world if there was an NHL season right now - same can't be said for Slepyshev (wouldn't be in NHL this year).

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:13 PM
  #44
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1. Canada AINEC
2. Russia
3. Finland
4. USA
5. Sweden
6. Czech

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:53 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Which ones are even debatable? I'll admit I don't know much about Slepyshev but Ryan Strome has a pretty huge lead still in the OHL scoring race aka the best junior league in the world. He'd be in the best league in the world if there was an NHL season right now - same can't be said for Slepyshev (wouldn't be in NHL this year).
RNH vs Yakupov is debatable imo, how ever blasphemous that might sound to some people. They're the same age, both are 1st overall picks, RNH has had the chance to play in the NHL, Yakupov has not. Nobody has seen them play against each other or against same players this year.

Also woudn't Strome be playing in the AHL?

What I've heard, Grigorenko vs Huberdeau isn't that clear cut either.

I'm not saying you're wrong with your comparisons, I'm just questioning your assumptions.

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:38 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by YARR123 View Post
RNH vs Yakupov is debatable imo, how ever blasphemous that might sound to some people. They're the same age, both are 1st overall picks, RNH has had the chance to play in the NHL, Yakupov has not. Nobody has seen them play against each other or against same players this year.

Also woudn't Strome be playing in the AHL?

What I've heard, Grigorenko vs Huberdeau isn't that clear cut either.

I'm not saying you're wrong with your comparisons, I'm just questioning your assumptions.
I'm an Oilers fan and at this point it isn't really close between RNH and Yakupov. RNH was near a PPG in the NHL last year as an 18-year-old. He's a first line centre in the best league in the world. He is head and shoulders above everyone in this tournament. I think Yakupov is the second best player in the tournament but he's a step below RNH and half a year younger which however miniscule it may sound does make a difference at this level. I'm sure the Islanders would love for Strome to be playing in the AHL but that isn't possible at his age so he's stuck being a man amongst boys in the OHL. I think Huberdeau is a much better player than Grigorenko at this point as well and there's also the 19-year-old factor as well.

I think the Russians are a very dangerous and talented team and if they can find chemistry look out. I also think that on paper in the lockout year it's Canada and then everyone else - people are going to be all over me for saying that but we'll see how it plays out.

Since 05 (anomaly) Canada has been easily the best team in this tournament. There have been close games and Canada obviously hasn't won gold every year but they've been the best since the last lockout without question. The medal count speaks for that. Every one of these years Canada has been missing multiple players and more than any other country to the best league in the world. This year would have been no different.

I don't want to be the cocky Canadian guy and truth be told in a single elimination tournament anything can happen. Let's just say there's a reason why Canada has to send provincial entries into tournaments not affected by the NHL.

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:55 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
I'm an Oilers fan and at this point it isn't really close between RNH and Yakupov. RNH was near a PPG in the NHL last year as an 18-year-old. He's a first line centre in the best league in the world. He is head and shoulders above everyone in this tournament. I think Yakupov is the second best player in the tournament but he's a step below RNH and half a year younger which however miniscule it may sound does make a difference at this level. I'm sure the Islanders would love for Strome to be playing in the AHL but that isn't possible at his age so he's stuck being a man amongst boys in the OHL. I think Huberdeau is a much better player than Grigorenko at this point as well and there's also the 19-year-old factor as well.

I think the Russians are a very dangerous and talented team and if they can find chemistry look out. I also think that on paper in the lockout year it's Canada and then everyone else - people are going to be all over me for saying that but we'll see how it plays out.

Since 05 (anomaly) Canada has been easily the best team in this tournament. There have been close games and Canada obviously hasn't won gold every year but they've been the best since the last lockout without question. The medal count speaks for that. Every one of these years Canada has been missing multiple players and more than any other country to the best league in the world. This year would have been no different.

I don't want to be the cocky Canadian guy and truth be told in a single elimination tournament anything can happen. Let's just say there's a reason why Canada has to send provincial entries into tournaments not affected by the NHL.
Which they routinely lose.....

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:55 PM
  #48
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1. Canada AINEC
2. Russia
3. Finland
4. USA
5. Sweden
6. Czech
Love it.

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:10 PM
  #49
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1. Canada
2. Russia
3. Finland
4. USA
5. Sweden
6. Czech Republic

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:14 PM
  #50
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In terms of draft "pedigree" I'd say Czech is debatable in rivaling Finlands top six.

Hertl-Faksa-Frk
Hyka-Jaskin-Beran

Teravainen-Granlund-Armia
Salomaki-Barkov-Lehkonen

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