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Jordan Staal traded to Carolina for Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin, 8th overall

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:24 AM
  #501
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
That is completely matter of opinion. In my opinion, if someone goes out of their way to make a hit then gets back in position, I view that as good positioning. That's completely opinionated. And I was trying to make a familiar comparison for Dumoulin. My original was Seabrook, but some people may not of known him. I used Orpik because he will probably be taking Orpik's spot if/when he leaves. I doubt the Pens would let him go, but he's slowly getting worse. We don't see any more free candy from him.
It may be your opinion, but it flies in the face of every hockey coach when they are discussing good defensive positioning. You never "go out of your way" to make a hit and still be in good position. That isn't to say that you can't lay someone out and be in position, you just need to pick your spots. Sometimes Orpik does that, and other times he makes boneheaded plays and runs for a hit. Having that type of dman is a valuable tool because it makes the forwards think twice about receiving a pass or carrying the puck in.

Early in Orpik's career, he was a pure head hunter. He constantly went out of position to make hits. As he matured, he learned to pick his spots and became a very valuable defender. I wouldn't have called him strong positionally (that's never been his strength) but he wasn't bad. This past season, he struggled in that area.

The point is, and I haven't seen enough of Dumoulin to speak expertly, this situation or attributes don't really mirror the way Dumo plays at all (from the times I've seen him play, the reports I've read, and the comments of posters who have seen him frequently). Bortuzzo is the closest we have to an Orpik replacement and that's still a stretch.

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:56 AM
  #502
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Bortuzzo is the closest we have to an Orpik replacement and that's still a stretch.
Bort is more Michalek than Orpik.

The only prospect with Orpik like traits is Ruopp.

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12-14-2012, 12:01 PM
  #503
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I don't know, Michalek is super soft. Bort doesn't hit like Orpik (few do), but he's definitely closer to Orpik than Michalek IMO. Bort does have a mean streak whereas Michalek has...none.

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12-14-2012, 12:03 PM
  #504
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This trade still stinks. I strongly dislike Staal for taking the exact same deal to play in Carolina. Ya, his right but it still irrationally irks me.

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12-14-2012, 12:04 PM
  #505
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This trade still stinks. I strongly dislike Staal for taking the exact same deal to play in Carolina. Ya, his right but it still irrationally irks me.
That doesn't make sense. Exactly because Staal was going to sign the same deal in Carolina it is a great trade. And Rutherford showed his class.

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12-14-2012, 12:09 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
I'm not worried about it.

If fans can rationalize (and even fully endorse) taking Staal where the Penguins did... they'll eventually set aside their better judgement and do the same with this pick, as well.
Picking Staal where we did won us a Stanly Cup. I'll take that any day.

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Old
12-14-2012, 12:24 PM
  #507
Le Magnifique 66
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Picking Staal where we did won us a Stanly Cup. I'll take that any day.
If you can go back in time, you would still take Staal over Toews and Backstrom? To be very honest and I have nothing against Staal and like the guy but I'd take the other 2 before Jordan

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12-14-2012, 12:28 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
If you can go back in time, you would still take Staal over Toews and Backstrom? To be very honest and I have nothing against Staal and like the guy but I'd take the other 2 before Jordan
In a world with Malkin & Crosby? Yes I do stick with the pick.

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12-14-2012, 12:29 PM
  #509
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In a world with Malkin & Crosby? Yes I do stick with the pick.
1 of the 3 could have moved to the wing. Having one of those world class players playing 3rd line center is such a waste

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12-14-2012, 12:38 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Gallatin View Post
Picking Staal where we did won us a Stanly Cup. I'll take that any day.
Oh?

I say Max Talbot "won us the Cup."

That seems about as reasonable of a statement.

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12-14-2012, 12:51 PM
  #511
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One of those picks would have been totally off the list for merely not being a good old Canadian boy.

Down to Toews or Staal. I don't really think they lost out very much here since I think both would have done well in each others position. Meaning the outcome is pretty much the same give or take. Staal had the size and that's what I'm going to see them focusing on going with the Staal name factor.

Really, the Pens wouldn't have lost much picking either. Staal had the stuff from the beginning, and he was held back only due to not having full reins like everyone else.

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12-14-2012, 01:01 PM
  #512
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Haha, you are so funny Jiggy.

You should get a high five!!!

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12-14-2012, 01:05 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Milliardo View Post
That doesn't make sense. Exactly because Staal was going to sign the same deal in Carolina it is a great trade. And Rutherford showed his class.
This.

Staal was going to Carolina either way, if we didn't trade him, he would have signed there as a UFA next off season, Shero made the right move, he got a solid 3rd line center and 2 solid D prospects for a core player that wanted to go play with his brother (and made it known).

Plus, do you guys think players don't notice this? Ray Shero traded Staal where he wanted to go, other teams came calling and Shero told them he wasn't available.

He traded Zbynek Michalek to a place he and his wife were familiar with and where Zbynek fits as a hockey player, with the Phoenix Coyotes under Dave Tippet.

Shero is a pretty classy GM, thinking about players' interests.

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12-14-2012, 01:14 PM
  #514
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Eh. I'm pretty sure if the leafs or rangers stepped up their offers, Staal would not be going to Carolina. Only reason he went there is b/c other GMs weren't willing to risk giving up a lot for potentially one year of Staal.

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12-14-2012, 01:32 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Haha, you are so funny Jiggy.

You should get a high five!!!
Ya, uh, I'll pass.

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:38 PM
  #516
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There's no doubt short term this team lost this trade so everyone better hope the rest of the pieces pan out. Anything can happen, and nothing is proven other than Sutters play to date.

Brandon Sutter isn't gonna cover this loss by himself.

Carolina has another Staal under contract.

I wonder who Carolina picks at #8?

Would have been nice to take someone with immediate impact. *within first couple years*

Yep, we have no need for someone like that.

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12-14-2012, 01:42 PM
  #517
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Yea, I'd say my biggest issue with the pick is that Pouliot won't have an impact on this team for 3-4 years at least. With how rare top ten picks are with Cup contending teams, I would have liked to get someone who can help us win in the immediate future.

But if DP pans out as a #3 PP QB in a few years from now, can't really argue with the pick.

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12-14-2012, 01:55 PM
  #518
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No one else we picked would've had an impact within 2 years.

Do people really think someone like Filip Forsberg was going to be a vital piece of a cup run two years from now? Based on what?

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12-14-2012, 02:04 PM
  #519
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I can understand wanting someone immediately, but I don't think the Pens NEEDED anything immediate. Now we are talking the difference of fan and management opinions. Fans may have given up on guys like Tangradi, but I don't think management has, and I think management is high on Beau Bennett, so in their eyes, they probably didn't see a desperate need for a guy like Forsberg when they made that Neal trade, and have Tangradi & Bennett in their prospect pool.

What they wanted was a dynamic offensive defenseman and they think Pouliot is that guy.

Sure guys like Pouliot, Tangradi and Bennett are unproven, but so are any other draft prospects and unless you have a top 3-5 pick, you're not getting immediate help.

So I do not see the issue with drafting guys that take a couple years to develop and give them a chance in the NHL, in hockey, you never know what players you have until they play for your team, I don't care if it's a 1st overall pick or a last overall pick.

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12-14-2012, 02:45 PM
  #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallatin View Post
Picking Staal where we did won us a Stanly Cup. I'll take that any day.
I really don't think this is a good argument, unless you believe Backstrom or Toews playing on our third line with TK and Cooke would have made us a weaker team?

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:47 PM
  #521
Ugene Malkin
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Capgeek shows a possible turnover in a couple seasons where there can be a case saying a good portion of the team could be different in 2014/15. Considering that I'd say he could have an impact on the team. No one is saying he will be a defacto or no one is talking about cup runs with him. By the way, cup runs means making it out of the first round. As they sit I'm not so sure they will.

There's a lot ifs being thrown around and not many absolutes for good reason.

I'd want to think a guy like Forsberg or Grigorenko would make guys like Tangradi, Kennedy, and some others in the next coming seasons redundant by the time one of them join the team.

Take your pick for various reasons.
http://capgeek.com/penguins/


Lets not forget about a lower cap.

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12-14-2012, 02:57 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by Tasty Biscuits View Post
No one else we picked would've had an impact within 2 years.

Do people really think someone like Filip Forsberg was going to be a vital piece of a cup run two years from now? Based on what?
I was hoping for Grigorenko. I can see why Tampa and Winnipeg passed on him. But we shouldn't have IMO.

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:15 PM
  #523
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The Rutherford showing class thing is getting entirely overblown. Carolina has made the playoffs once in the last 6 seasons. If that streak went to 7, he probably would of gotten canned. That's why he made the deal, not because he was trying to be a good Samaritan to help Shero out.

Keeping the 8th pick and Dumoulin doesn't do him much good if Carolina misses the playoffs and he's out of a job and Staal signs with Carolina's new regime in the off-season. It makes a ton of sense to sacrifice those future assets in order to secure his job past the 2012-2013 season.

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12-14-2012, 04:29 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I was hoping for Grigorenko. I can see why Tampa and Winnipeg passed on him. But we shouldn't have IMO.
Still, if you're talking about an immediate impact, he has no place on the roster. I'm sure he could fetch a decent return though if he tore it up in the A and they gave him a limited NHL showcase.

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:53 PM
  #525
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Grigs is a natural center who isn't Canadian. He doesn't have a spot on our roster, unless one of Sid or Geno would get hurt. I can see why people would have wanted Forsberg, that's who I wanted, but I'm in no way or shape mad about the Pouliot pick.

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