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Wii U: Nintendo's Next Generation Console Part 2

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Old
12-11-2012, 05:26 PM
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Wii U: Nintendo's Next Generation Console Part 2

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:12 PM
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Continuing the talk from the last thread.

Nintendo couldn't rely on their core gamer anymore when going to the Wii because their audience was either tiny, or their core audience just hated buying games. The software sales for Gamecube games are abysmal.

It was the audience that gave up on them first.

I'd consider myself a long time Nintendo fan, and the Wii to me, was miles ahead of the Gamecube in terms of compelling first party software.

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12-11-2012, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
Continuing the talk from the last thread.

Nintendo couldn't rely on their core gamer anymore when going to the Wii because their audience was either tiny, or their core audience just hated buying games. The software sales for Gamecube games are abysmal.

It was the audience that gave up on them first.

I'd consider myself a long time Nintendo fan, and the Wii to me, was miles ahead of the Gamecube in terms of compelling first party software.
Nintendo titles did pretty well on the Gamecube actually, it's the third parties that really suffered.

Top 5 selling Gamecube (using the 22 million Gamecubes number) games:
1) Super Smash Brothers Melee - 7.09 million (32% of GC owners owned melee)
2) Double Dash - 7 million(31.8%)
3) Super Mario Sunshine - 5.9 million (27%)
4) Wind Waker - 4.6 (21%)
5) Luigi's Mansion - 2.64 (12%)

So the game attach rate is actually pretty good!

However, top third party games:
1) Sonic Adventure 2 - 1.73 million (7.8%)
2) Resident Evil 4 - 1.6 (7.2%)
3) Sonic Mega Collection - 1.45 (6.6%)

Third parties did significantly worse sales wise than Nintendo first party.

The audience was there for Nintendo products, but not so much third party which led to third parties all but giving up on the Gamecube. The other issue with the Gamecube is that it never really succeeded in Europe unfortunately.

Fun fact: The attach rate for Melee is the same as the attach rate for Mario Kart Wii, the best selling Wii game that isn't Wii Sports. Of course, there's a large difference in millions of units sold, but the core was definitely there for the Gamecube.

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12-11-2012, 07:06 PM
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I've been off Nintendo for some time but almost bought a Wii early this year, then almost a WiiU recently (until I had to drop $750 for a new phone...)...

Problem for me when the gamecube came out was lack of a DVD player. Such a simple thing, then Wii lack of HD.

Not sure where the WiiU fits yet. Waiting to see how the 3rd party developers receive it as the development kits start to go out for PS4 and the 720 or whatever.

That and since I have a new PC the added expense for console + console price games on a Wii U over my 360 or PS3 just doesn't seem worth it unless there was something truly revolutionary... but the offering looks pretty mediocre so far.

EDIT: Too be fair if I didn't have a PS3 or a 360 i'd probably look first at the Wii U.

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12-11-2012, 09:55 PM
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I'm going to hold out on a PS4/720 for however long I can and just go Wii U/PC. Need to have my Nintendo titles, and I'll get the superior version of most third party releases. I've never owned a Sony console so I should do alright ignoring them, but I'm worried about missing out on stuff like the NHL games, or possibly some Japanese titles if they skip PC.

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12-11-2012, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
Nintendo titles did pretty well on the Gamecube actually, it's the third parties that really suffered.

Top 5 selling Gamecube (using the 22 million Gamecubes number) games:
1) Super Smash Brothers Melee - 7.09 million (32% of GC owners owned melee)
2) Double Dash - 7 million(31.8%)
3) Super Mario Sunshine - 5.9 million (27%)
4) Wind Waker - 4.6 (21%)
5) Luigi's Mansion - 2.64 (12%)

So the game attach rate is actually pretty good!

However, top third party games:
1) Sonic Adventure 2 - 1.73 million (7.8%)
2) Resident Evil 4 - 1.6 (7.2%)
3) Sonic Mega Collection - 1.45 (6.6%)

Third parties did significantly worse sales wise than Nintendo first party.

The audience was there for Nintendo products, but not so much third party which led to third parties all but giving up on the Gamecube. The other issue with the Gamecube is that it never really succeeded in Europe unfortunately.

Fun fact: The attach rate for Melee is the same as the attach rate for Mario Kart Wii, the best selling Wii game that isn't Wii Sports. Of course, there's a large difference in millions of units sold, but the core was definitely there for the Gamecube.
Now you're getting into apple's and oranges. People will crap on the Wii for a lack of third party support, and will cite the key reason being it's too weak of a console. This is entirely correct, the Wii would never be able to play games like Skyrim or Gears of War or Uncharted. But the point is the Gamecube did have the power to play the equivalent games from the Xbox or PS2, yet it still fell way behind on 3rd party support.

This would suggest that Nintendo's problem is not simply a matter of how much horsepower the console has under the hood, but it's something much deeper. I would suspect it has something more to do with Sony and Microsoft being massive multi-purpose corporations that are simple better at it. I mean Sony was able to win the Bluray/HD-DVD format wars purely through backroom dealings, and Microsoft is Microsoft, with a strong connection to all the Western PC game developers that jumped ship with them to consoles.

I would also take an educated guess that the 'core gamer group that just wants Nintendo to be the Nintendo of old' can be represented through the Gamecube sale numbers. If Nintendo made a Gamecube 2 instead of the Wii that could actually play the 360 and PS3 games & create a Zelda game in glorious HD and all that, they probably would have sold only 20-25 million consoles. Kind of the same fallacy that FFVII fans have in thinking that all Square has to do to get out of their rut is remake VII in glorious HD and they'll just start printing money.

This is why Nintendo had to do something different or they'd just end up the same as Sega. With the Wii-U even if the casual crowd shrinks from what it was on the Wii, Nintendo will still be better off than if they just catered directly to the core Nintendo gamer crowd. We're going to buy anyways because we still need to get our Mario and Zelda fix after all.

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12-12-2012, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by RandV View Post
Now you're getting into apple's and oranges. People will crap on the Wii for a lack of third party support, and will cite the key reason being it's too weak of a console. This is entirely correct, the Wii would never be able to play games like Skyrim or Gears of War or Uncharted. But the point is the Gamecube did have the power to play the equivalent games from the Xbox or PS2, yet it still fell way behind on 3rd party support.

This would suggest that Nintendo's problem is not simply a matter of how much horsepower the console has under the hood, but it's something much deeper. I would suspect it has something more to do with Sony and Microsoft being massive multi-purpose corporations that are simple better at it. I mean Sony was able to win the Bluray/HD-DVD format wars purely through backroom dealings, and Microsoft is Microsoft, with a strong connection to all the Western PC game developers that jumped ship with them to consoles.

I would also take an educated guess that the 'core gamer group that just wants Nintendo to be the Nintendo of old' can be represented through the Gamecube sale numbers. If Nintendo made a Gamecube 2 instead of the Wii that could actually play the 360 and PS3 games & create a Zelda game in glorious HD and all that, they probably would have sold only 20-25 million consoles. Kind of the same fallacy that FFVII fans have in thinking that all Square has to do to get out of their rut is remake VII in glorious HD and they'll just start printing money.

This is why Nintendo had to do something different or they'd just end up the same as Sega. With the Wii-U even if the casual crowd shrinks from what it was on the Wii, Nintendo will still be better off than if they just catered directly to the core Nintendo gamer crowd. We're going to buy anyways because we still need to get our Mario and Zelda fix after all.
Oh, I've never said console power was the problem..because ultimately publishers don't tend to develop for the most powerful game console out, because that's limiting their market. Nintendo's problem is that they've never been very good at supporting third party since the days of SNES, and with the Wii, they've fallen behind on things like trophies/achievements, online infrastructure, online storefronts and running a true online console. Those are the kinds of things that third parties do pay attention to, and like I said in a previous post, now Nintendo is trying to play catch up, both graphically and systematically.

We tend to forget that previous to this generation, 20+ million consoles was viewed as a success if the company made money (Sony was an exception with over 100 million units sold). The Super Nintendo, lauded as one of the greatest consoles of all time, only sold ~50 million units total and was considered a massive success in its day (Sega Genesis sold 40 million for comparison).

As a matter of fact, if you take Nintendo consoles alone (they've been greatly successful in the handheld market and no one will argue otherwise, even if the 3DS is currently struggling) you can see a fascinating trend:

NES: 61.91 million
SNES: 49.10 million
N64: 32.93 million
Gamecube: 21.74 million
Wii: 100+ million

Until the Wii, Nintendo was losing more and more ground with each console generation. Interestingly, the Gamecube is a good contrast to one of it's generation competitors, the Xbox which sold 24 million and the numbers are really comparable. The major difference was, of course, Nintendo always profited on the Gamecube and the Xbox lost Microsoft millions of dollars.

Where am I going with this? Well this is the first gen where all three systems will likely surpass 100 million units sold, which means the market for gamers has no doubt greatly expanded (not counting PC). The problem for Nintendo is that the Wii in it's last days was viewed as an entry point for a gamer to then buy a "big boy" system once the Wii lost it's luster, and I really hope Nintendo can shake that stigma and I'm not sure they understand that train of thought considering they named the system the "Wii U".

The Wii U has nothing unique about it on paper aside from the fact that it can play Nintendo's first party line up and I really hope they can differentiate the system in the long run, because I really do want Nintendo to succeed. Nintendo really needs to learn to develop symbiotic relationships with third party developers, because it burns them almost every generation.

And while yes, people will always line up to buy Zelda and Mario and Pokemon, Nintendo has to make sure those franchises constantly evolve, because as demonstrated by the numbers earlier, their fanbase was shrinking every generation. I don't think they should be going into this trying to replicate the Wii's success, the market has changed too much, casual gaming has changed too much, their competitors have changed too much and the chances of replicating the Wii are slim.

Edit: As I've been voicing my concerns about third party, Kotaku puts out this article: http://kotaku.com/5967668/most-of-ea...skipping-wii-u


Last edited by Orpheus: 12-12-2012 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Adding an article
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12-12-2012, 02:24 PM
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The Wii U launch by the numbers

The Wii U launch by the numbers:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1...p#.UMjXvqziiuk





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12-12-2012, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
There's more to the world than the US numbers, where the Wii U will no doubt sell well. It'll also sell well in Japan, it's Europe (arguably the biggest market now) that the console doesn't seem to be doing well in.

Hopefully they figure Europe out. For example, in the UK they had a rather abysmal first sales week, and are already on the decline in week 2.

If you want to compare it to the other two consoles in 2012 as of December 1st:

Ps3 has sold 9,214,702 units or 837,700 units a month.
Xbox has sold 7,925,854 units or 720,532 units a month.

So once the monthly sales for the Wii U come in plus the holiday sales for the other two, it'll be easier to make comparisons, but the true comparisons probably won't be valid until Marchish, because of the new console sales boost. It's not doing bad, but Nintendo really needs to keep up the momentum and not let it fall off the cliff like the 3DS (slightly different circumstances, but comparable)


Last edited by Orpheus: 12-12-2012 at 02:42 PM.
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12-12-2012, 02:59 PM
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interesting that more people opted for the more expensive deluxe model. I went with the basic, figuring to buy a harddrive regardless and not being overly interested in Nintendoland.

As for the numbers, the hardware looks about right with what my eyes have been telling me, and the software sales don't surprise me. The ports are nice, but a lot of people who would have bought those games, likely already have on other systems. I figure the main driver of software is Mario, with maybe ZombieU and now Black Ops2 leading the second tier of titles.

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12-12-2012, 04:55 PM
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interesting that more people opted for the more expensive deluxe model. I went with the basic, figuring to buy a harddrive regardless and not being overly interested in Nintendoland.

As for the numbers, the hardware looks about right with what my eyes have been telling me, and the software sales don't surprise me. The ports are nice, but a lot of people who would have bought those games, likely already have on other systems. I figure the main driver of software is Mario, with maybe ZombieU and now Black Ops2 leading the second tier of titles.
Considering Nintendoland is $60 separately, you actually save money going with the deluxe, plus only the deluxe comes with 10% back deal on digital purchases.

Plus the people who buy these things early are the enthusiasts, and it makes sense they'd go with the more expensive option.

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12-12-2012, 05:47 PM
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Excited for to open my Wii U on Christmas day.

Anybody play Scribblenauts yet? I'm thinking about buying it.

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12-12-2012, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
Considering Nintendoland is $60 separately, you actually save money going with the deluxe, plus only the deluxe comes with 10% back deal on digital purchases.

Plus the people who buy these things early are the enthusiasts, and it makes sense they'd go with the more expensive option.
Deluxe makes a ton of sense if you're interested in Nintendoland. A collection of minigames just didn't grab me, though. Saved the $50 and put that towards Scribblenauts and Darksiders 2, instead.

I wish the US had gotten the Zombiu package that Europe got. I would have been all over that.

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12-13-2012, 10:48 AM
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Toki Tori 2 is delayed.

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12-14-2012, 11:14 AM
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Nba2k13

Quote:
Senior Producer of NBA 2K13 Rob Jones has said that in many ways the Wii U version of the hit basketball title is "superior" to versions on other platforms - which is quite impressive considering it's also been released on the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 and PC.
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/201...ior_experience

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12-14-2012, 03:33 PM
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Marketing speak for "Please buy our game!"

I really wish developers would let their work speak for itself. I hate this kind of talk from anyone.

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12-14-2012, 10:23 PM
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Rayman Legends demo is out, DLed it but haven't tried it, having too much fun with Mario U

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12-16-2012, 12:35 AM
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We did an early Christmas because of family obligations, so the kid/I got the Wii U out today and hooked up. He killed all afternoon playing Scribblenauts Unlimited, and I killed the evening with Darksiders 2.

I don't get the negative Scribblenaut reviews. Yeah, I couldn't sit down and just jam on it for five hours, but I don't think I'm the target audience, either. The kid loved it.

Also, it was a good move to take it out when we first got it and do the updates before repackaging it and putting it under the tree. Fun system so far, though.

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12-16-2012, 03:26 AM
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Still waiting on the new Zelda title to be revealed at E3 before I decide to pick one up or not.

Already know I'll be grabbing the new Xbox next Christmas so I'm in no rush.

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12-16-2012, 09:20 AM
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Still waiting on the new Zelda title to be revealed at E3 before I decide to pick one up or not.

Already know I'll be grabbing the new Xbox next Christmas so I'm in no rush.
Never been a huge Zelda fan, never got into the older games but enjoyed Twilight Princess, but if it looks anything like the demo reel they've showed in the past I'm in. I'm really curious to see what the next Zelda and Metroid look like.

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12-16-2012, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
We did an early Christmas because of family obligations, so the kid/I got the Wii U out today and hooked up. He killed all afternoon playing Scribblenauts Unlimited, and I killed the evening with Darksiders 2.

I don't get the negative Scribblenaut reviews. Yeah, I couldn't sit down and just jam on it for five hours, but I don't think I'm the target audience, either. The kid loved it.

Also, it was a good move to take it out when we first got it and do the updates before repackaging it and putting it under the tree. Fun system so far, though.
My wife loves Scibblenaughts. We both have wasted time on trips playing it on the ipad, and she's enjoying Unlimited on the PC.

To me it should be a solid 8 or 9 to reviewers, but there's always guys who either don't understand the audience the game is meant for, or the guys who now go out of their way to low score big games on Metacritic to look like they're the "tough" reviewers who cut the bull.

I forget the name but I clicked on one reviewer and he scores every big name game with terrible scores, and then if its some lesser known, lesser hyped game he always scores them through the roof. Its an obvious ploy and its pretty pathetic to try to be the hipster review site where everything popular is bad, and everything that goes under the radar is some special diamond in the rough that only this review site acknowledged.

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12-16-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnbannedRStar View Post
My wife loves Scibblenaughts. We both have wasted time on trips playing it on the ipad, and she's enjoying Unlimited on the PC.

To me it should be a solid 8 or 9 to reviewers, but there's always guys who either don't understand the audience the game is meant for, or the guys who now go out of their way to low score big games on Metacritic to look like they're the "tough" reviewers who cut the bull.

I forget the name but I clicked on one reviewer and he scores every big name game with terrible scores, and then if its some lesser known, lesser hyped game he always scores them through the roof. Its an obvious ploy and its pretty pathetic to try to be the hipster review site where everything popular is bad, and everything that goes under the radar is some special diamond in the rough that only this review site acknowledged.
Makes me think of Armond White, a movie critic. Every once in awhile he'll just come out of left field with a review that goes against everyone else's thoughts on a movie. It's a clear attention grab and BS move, but people keep falling for it.

Anyway, yeah, Scribblenauts Unlimited is a pretty easy 8/10 for me. the kid went from whining about not getting Mario U to just total attention and glee over making a "ginormous trex" in no time. And I had fun with chthulu.

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12-16-2012, 11:51 AM
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Makes me think of Armond White, a movie critic. Every once in awhile he'll just come out of left field with a review that goes against everyone else's thoughts on a movie. It's a clear attention grab and BS move, but people keep falling for it.

Anyway, yeah, Scribblenauts Unlimited is a pretty easy 8/10 for me. the kid went from whining about not getting Mario U to just total attention and glee over making a "ginormous trex" in no time. And I had fun with chthulu.
One of the rare games these days you can be ok with your kid playing, and even more rare that they'll actually learn and stimulate their brain while playing.

In that sense the game really flew under the radar as far as I'm concerned.

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12-16-2012, 01:27 PM
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One of the rare games these days you can be ok with your kid playing, and even more rare that they'll actually learn and stimulate their brain while playing.

In that sense the game really flew under the radar as far as I'm concerned.
Love that the kid can work on his vocabulary a bit, see it pop up on screen, interact with it. And it's fun. Another game that I'm trying to get my kid into is the Professor Layton series on the ds/3ds. Some of the puzzles are a bit over his head, and it discourages him a bit, but it's another fun series that makes you think a bit while playing. I would love to see a Professor Layton game come to the U.

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12-16-2012, 01:32 PM
  #25
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Love that the kid can work on his vocabulary a bit, see it pop up on screen, interact with it. And it's fun. Another game that I'm trying to get my kid into is the Professor Layton series on the ds/3ds. Some of the puzzles are a bit over his head, and it discourages him a bit, but it's another fun series that makes you think a bit while playing. I would love to see a Professor Layton game come to the U.
Yep. Its definitely another kid friendly game that makes them think. Some of the puzzles can be pretty tough like you said, but hopefully that just adds to the longevity.

I think it would work great on the WiiU. There's probably some great puzzle ideas they could come up with from having the second screen.

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