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Lockout Thread #4: Tentative agreement!

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:38 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Millions like the 300 million the players have clawed back on the make whole from one of the owners numerous "final, final, we really mean it, going going gone, this is it, final" offers?

And Fehr isn't my hero, I'm hoping the players get as little as possible in these negotiations as this works better from a fan perspective.

I'm not pro-Fehr as much as I'm anti- silly little opinionated narratives that have not basis in reason
Ah. The Fox News of HF Oil!

HotToddy- fair and balanced, Phoenix Coyotes and Craig Mactavish notwithstanding.

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12-14-2012, 05:17 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
The owners aren't stupid, they've heard/read what was said that Fehr said that he could get them a better deal even though the last proposal seemed to be a good one. This is them giving Don the bird.

agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
This whole thing reminds me of the "Canada on Strike" South Park episode.

It's time the NHL gives the PA some bubblegum and gift certificates to Bennigan's, so they feel like they've won something, and end the lock-out.
lmao.

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Old
12-14-2012, 09:04 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Do writers like to throw their credibility out the window by writing an incredibly biased article like that?

That was a challenge to get through. Just an abomination.
Care to discuss why or are you just going to follow whatever opinion and narrative that you've formed in your mind.

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12-14-2012, 11:53 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Care to discuss why or are you just going to follow whatever opinion and narrative that you've formed in your mind.
That's a pretty ironic accusation, don't you think?

Quote:
So says the man who so cares about "our fans" that he is willing to jettison a second full season in a decade just to pick off what meat is left on the carcass. This man must live in a house without mirrors.
After that blurb about Bettman, there's no way I can take a single word this "writer" has wrote at face value.

Not to mention the handful of facts he took out of context and twisted into supporting his agenda.


I'm not sure how anyone can think that article was well written or objectively presented. We should probably just agree to disagree if you think it was and save ourselves the time.

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:10 PM
  #80
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411653

players are going to vote on whether they should give the executive the right to issue statement of disclaimer of interest... this doesn't mean the executive would actually follow through with it, but rather just give the executive the power to do so if they choose to do so (if that makese sense)

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12-14-2012, 01:18 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Pretty good Grantland piece of Fehr and the lockout

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...hr-nhl-lockout

Who's the writer, Fehr's brother-in-law? What an absolute crock. Goes on and on about how the poor players had their "clocks cleaned" the last CBA, but says nothing about prior agreements 20 years earlier which completely tilted the gameboard in their favour , and the obscene scads of money and increases in salary they've made since they were "scammed" so badly.

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:18 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411653

players are going to vote on whether they should give the executive the right to issue statement of disclaimer of interest... this doesn't mean the executive would actually follow through with it, but rather just give the executive the power to do so if they choose to do so (if that makese sense)
Wouldn't it make more sense to have the players vote on the latest offer by the NHL?

What the the elite few afraid of?

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:26 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Booya42 View Post
Wouldn't it make more sense to have the players vote on the latest offer by the NHL?

What the the elite few afraid of?
well, they kind of ARE voting on it, don't you think? if they vote against giving the executive the right to file for disclaimer, wouldn't that be interpreted as voting for the NHLs current offer? or at least it would be interpreted as voting for more meaningful movement from the NHLPA

the NHLPA are mostly sheep though, they will vote to give power to the executive

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:38 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Pretty good Grantland piece of Fehr and the lockout

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...hr-nhl-lockout
I'm a big Grantland guy, but don't know if I've ever liked one of Charles P. Pierce's articles. He seems to write with goal of fostering disagreement, which is confusing since they never allow comments on his articles.

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:55 PM
  #85
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Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika

NHL is beating the NHLPA to court, filing a complaint to declare legality of the lockout and an unfair labor practice charge. Here we go.

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:59 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika

NHL is beating the NHLPA to court, filing a complaint to declare legality of the lockout and an unfair labor practice charge. Here we go.
Anybody still think there's hope for a season?

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:01 PM
  #87
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From Mark Spector's twitter:

Quote:
The NHL files a Class Action Complaint in Federal Court in New York seeking a Declaration confirming the ongoing legality of the lockout.

Simultaneously w/Complaint, the NHL also filed an Unfair Labor Practice Charge with the National Labor Relations Board alleging that by threatening to "disclaim interest," the NHLPA has engaged in an unlawful subversion of the collective bargaining process and conduct that constitutes bad faith bargaining under the National Labor Relations Act." War's on folks

This gets UGLY now. NHL gets out ahead of the PA's threat to dissolve. Like a divorce, lawyers will do well here.


Last edited by dnicks17: 12-14-2012 at 04:07 PM.
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Old
12-14-2012, 04:42 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika

NHL is beating the NHLPA to court, filing a complaint to declare legality of the lockout and an unfair labor practice charge. Here we go.
I guess this is why you don't telegraph what you're doing PA ha ha

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:47 PM
  #89
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They telegraphed it because it was a scare tactic lol. NHL is on the ball. They shouldn't underestimate Gary and co. like that.

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:51 PM
  #90
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wow, the NHL going to court first means this IS ON NOW... doesn't meant there won't be a season, but it means that things got a lot uglier, that's for sure

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:53 PM
  #91
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So Bettman is calling out Fehr's BS in the legal system now?

Good Fehr hasn't been negotiating in good faith since well before the last season ended.

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:18 PM
  #92
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You would think the players would have done this much sooner. If they are pretty close to a deal, no point doing this bluff now. Bad faith negotiating.

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:19 PM
  #93
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Have there been any funny player quotes today?

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:43 PM
  #94
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This is not good id on't think the season is lost just yet, it's an interesting move by the league as soon as they sensed the pa may look to disclaim interest the nhl made the first move to get to court

Here's an interesting tweet from a lawyer and sports analyst in response to darren dreger

@EricOnSportsLaw: @DarrenDreger So if anything todays NHL lawsuit may pressure NHLPA to consider settlement unless they file own lawsuit in California

This could get real messy in court or perhaps this pressures the pa to try and make a deal

The nhl's unfair labour practice charge is with regards to the pa threatening to disclaim interest the nhl says that is bad faith bargaining not the actual bargaining that happen with don fehr

@KatieStrangESPN: #CBA NHL also files an Unfair Labor Practice Charge with the NLRB, alleging that NHLPA's threat to disclaim interest is bad faith bargaining

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:49 PM
  #95
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The NHL was well prepared for any disclaimer of interest. Having represented the NBA and NFL in other labour negotiations, Proskauer Rose knew this was likely. I don't see the NHLPA winning anything in the courtoom.

However, I also don't agree that the BoG will continue this lockout until they get everything they want. A lot of NHL teams don't make money. But we also see that when owners buy teams, it is a stepping stone to building much larger entertainment companies.

A lot of the benefits from owning a hockey team are difficult to internalize. To some degree I think you could argue the NHL is a quasi public good (civic pride, etc). Owners have come up with other creative ways of maximizing the value of a franchise. See Katz and this whole arena gong show in Edmonton right now. Without the Oilers, Katz would have absolutely no leverage in building up his real estate holdings and Rexall Sports.

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:55 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
well, they kind of ARE voting on it, don't you think? if they vote against giving the executive the right to file for disclaimer, wouldn't that be interpreted as voting for the NHLs current offer? or at least it would be interpreted as voting for more meaningful movement from the NHLPA

the NHLPA are mostly sheep though, they will vote to give power to the executive
Not really. To decertify they needed a full majority IIRC but to just dissolve they need 1/3rd

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:55 PM
  #97
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"We are a union, we will stand together! They think they can break us? Well, we'll dissolve to show everyone that we can not be broken!"

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12-14-2012, 06:13 PM
  #98
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Ok, we are fnally to the litigating part of the process.

I love the smell of law suits in the morning.

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Old
12-14-2012, 06:51 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
Who's the writer, Fehr's brother-in-law? What an absolute crock. Goes on and on about how the poor players had their "clocks cleaned" the last CBA, but says nothing about prior agreements 20 years earlier which completely tilted the gameboard in their favour , and the obscene scads of money and increases in salary they've made since they were "scammed" so badly.
Fehrs mistress more like.

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Old
12-14-2012, 06:55 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matador View Post
The NHL was well prepared for any disclaimer of interest. Having represented the NBA and NFL in other labour negotiations, Proskauer Rose knew this was likely. I don't see the NHLPA winning anything in the courtoom.

However, I also don't agree that the BoG will continue this lockout until they get everything they want. A lot of NHL teams don't make money. But we also see that when owners buy teams, it is a stepping stone to building much larger entertainment companies.

A lot of the benefits from owning a hockey team are difficult to internalize. To some degree I think you could argue the NHL is a quasi public good (civic pride, etc). Owners have come up with other creative ways of maximizing the value of a franchise. See Katz and this whole arena gong show in Edmonton right now. Without the Oilers, Katz would have absolutely no leverage in building up his real estate holdings and Rexall Sports.
Yes, why not accept that teams can just bleed money. Then the owners can hold the cities they are in over a barrel and force cities to use tax money to keep them there.

SO we get to the point that millions are paid to hockey players by little old ladies, with the threat that if they dont pay, they get evicted from their homes.

Thats such a fair and reasonable situation.

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