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NHLPA exec board asks players to empower PA dissolution; NHL files w/Fed court+NLRB

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:55 PM
  #51
DL44
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
It's basically the executive board going to it's membership and telling them to vote yes or else bad stuff happens.
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
That's a good point. They must be pretty confident of the vote passing, or they wouldn't risk having one.
Here's where you hope the power of the secret ballot comes into effect....

Would be interesting to see a whole bunch of NO votes, but players can 100% shrug their shoulders say 'hey man, i voted yes'.

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:55 PM
  #52
Erik Estrada
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Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
The NHL has filed a class action complaint in Federal Court in New York seeking a declaration confirming the legality of the lockout.

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/st...05736878096384

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:58 PM
  #53
Erik Estrada
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Jesse Spector
‏@jessespector 2m The NHL files an unfair labor practice charge with the NLRB and a class action complaint in fed court to try to prevent an NHLPA disclaimer.

https://twitter.com/jessespector/sta...06138478538753

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Old
12-14-2012, 03:58 PM
  #54
DL44
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
The NHL has filed a class action complaint in Federal Court in New York seeking a declaration confirming the legality of the lockout.

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/st...05736878096384
Sweet... and move to the courtroom and out of the boardroom is ON.

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:02 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Jesse Spector
‏@jessespector 2m The NHL files an unfair labor practice charge with the NLRB and a class action complaint in fed court to try to prevent an NHLPA disclaimer.

https://twitter.com/jessespector/sta...06138478538753

Noting that this follows the NBA course as well. Courts may side with NHL on labor law, but cannot force members to stay in a union. (Disclaimer of Interest vs Decertification)


Just to bring everyone else up to speed, from our last thread where James Mirtle wrote on the decertification process:

http://lawreview.law.ucdavis.edu/iss...-4_Feldman.pdf

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1978517

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:11 PM
  #56
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Well at least the courtroom will be much more entertaining than the trainwreck we're currently watching

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:16 PM
  #57
Erik Estrada
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Has there been any news on when the vote to disclaim interest is held? Players should vote ASAP (right now if possible, 2 hours ago woudl be even better)...

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12-14-2012, 04:42 PM
  #58
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I think that this "vote to authorize" seems like a transparent attempt to get leverage in labour negotiations, which smells a lot like "bad faith". How can the NHL bargain with a union that has been "authorized" to disclaim interest, without actually doing so? I think that this two-step process beginning with an unenforceable "authorization" is too clever by half. It might actually strengthen the NHL's hand in arguing that the union does not want to bargain any more in good faith.

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:47 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Has there been any news on when the vote to disclaim interest is held? Players should vote ASAP (right now if possible, 2 hours ago woudl be even better)...
Where would a positive vote to "authorize" the NHLPA to disclaim interest lead? There is really no way that the NHL will want to negotiate with the NHLPA if they have this "authorization" to disclaim interest in their back pocket. I think that if the players vote in favour, that will be the end of negotiations until either the NHLPA goes forward to disclaim interest, or declares definitively that it will not.

In the meantime, I think that the NHL had no choice but to preemptively go to court to challenge this approach of an "authorization vote". They can't be expected to negotiate with the NHLPA if they have their hand hovering over the "disclaimer of interest" button.

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12-14-2012, 04:49 PM
  #60
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Man, I bet Bill Daly is disappointed.

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:51 PM
  #61
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Where would a positive vote to "authorize" the NHLPA to disclaim interest lead? There is really no way that the NHL will want to negotiate with the NHLPA if they have this "authorization" to disclaim interest in their back pocket. I think that if the players vote in favour, that will be the end of negotiations until either the NHLPA goes forward to disclaim interest, or declares definitively that it will not.

In the meantime, I think that the NHL had no choice but to preemptively go to court to challenge this approach of an "authorization vote". They can't be expected to negotiate with the NHLPA if they have their hand hovering over the "disclaimer of interest" button.
The NHLPA should go forward to disclaim interest right now. Not as a threat. So there's no more union anymore.

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12-14-2012, 04:53 PM
  #62
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By the way, Bettman's quick finger to anticipate this move, have the complaint drafted and get it into a friendly court is the kind of move that I think speaks more as evidence of his competence than the mere existence of a lockout.

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12-14-2012, 04:53 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Man, I bet Bill Daly is disappointed.



That was well done!


It will be interesting to see what effect this announcement has on the players-do they start thinking "then it's war-off to court we go then" or start thinking about how many more paychecks they'll lose.

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:57 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
By the way, Bettman's quick finger to anticipate this move, have the complaint drafted and get it into a friendly court is the kind of move that I think speaks more as evidence of his competence than the mere existence of a lockout.
are you serious?

if this wasn't drafted and ready to go months ago, Bettman would be the worst commissioner in pro sports.

wait, he's already the worst. the worstestest?

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Old
12-14-2012, 04:58 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
By the way, Bettman's quick finger to anticipate this move, have the complaint drafted and get it into a friendly court is the kind of move that I think speaks more as evidence of his competence than the mere existence of a lockout.
It was shrewd, and necessary from the NHL's perspective, I think. The plan to "vote for authorization" to disclaim interest was all the evidence he needed that the NHLPA did not have an interest in further bargaining without having the advantage of a mandate to disclaim interest whenever it suited them.

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12-14-2012, 04:59 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
By the way, Bettman's quick finger to anticipate this move, have the complaint drafted and get it into a friendly court is the kind of move that I think speaks more as evidence of his competence than the mere existence of a lockout.
Bettman finally called Fehr's bluff and said enough is enough. Now Fehr has to play another hand and this is it, unfortunatly for him it's a crappy one considering that the time it takes to go through the courts would likely end a season for sure. I wonder if the players know this....

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:01 PM
  #67
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IMO, further proof Fehr never negociated in good faith. He should have at least submitted the NHL's last offer to a vote before going this route. What was he afraid of? Oh that's right! That the players would have actually accepted the last offer. Eff off Fehr!
And we all thought, the players just want to play...

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12-14-2012, 05:02 PM
  #68
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This feels like the beginning of the end game, with an uncertain outcome.

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:07 PM
  #69
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There are American law state law canadian law provincial law and the laws in Quebec are different.

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:07 PM
  #70
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This league is such an embarrassment. I wonder what they'll do after the next CBA to top it.

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12-14-2012, 05:10 PM
  #71
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So now we find out which side has the better lawyers.

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:13 PM
  #72
Erik Estrada
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So now we find out which side has the better lawyers.
By filing those two legal procedures so swiftly, it's clear evidence that the NHL is very well prepared. This wasn't improvised.

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:17 PM
  #73
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So now we find out which side has the better lawyers.
Right, or more likely over the next several years we find out who has the better lawyers. This is not a good series of events for anyone hoping for hockey this season.

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:26 PM
  #74
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Here's what's interesting:

By filing in court, the league signaled the likely end of negotiations until either the union's vote goes away or a court rules on this. I don't suspect the union's vote will go away. So the question becomes how long will it take a court to turn this motion around? I'm guessing at least a few weeks.

And if the NHL is basically, at this stage, inviting the court to take us past the new year before negotiations can even resume, I think it's signaling that it's willing to put more cancellations on the line, maybe the whole season. Which condenses the distance between us and whatever red line having a season was supposed to hinge down to almost nothing, and putting the onus on players to realize that whatever drop dead date they were hoping the NHL would cave at may not be coming. We might blow past it sitting in court.

Now, it's possible they continue to negotiate while the case is pending and declare it moot if a CBA is reached, but if that happens, the NHL still holds all the cards. Because a union actively negotiating while their disinterest claim is pending is destroying their position in court, and hence the big piece of leverage they were hoping to use against the league.

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:26 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
Judging by your comments, I dont think you have any understanding at all of any of theset topics

Bettman said what the league needed to do, explained it carefuly, and has stuck to the main points, which are ULTRA important, such as max contract length, and CBA length

the players say 'idiot owners cant control themselves and sign insane deals'

then when a necessary rule change is made to fix this loophole, the players wont accept it....

I only see bad faith from one side in that scenario.
The PA signing Fehr, was the start of bad faith, so to speak...that being said, the owners and GM's do make some real bonehead decisions, and the PA and the agents seem to wanna hold them accountable...

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