HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > World Junior Championship
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
World Junior Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Has Russia overtaken the #1 spot in World Hockey?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-14-2012, 01:15 AM
  #701
Leo Trollmarov
I was in the pool!!
 
Leo Trollmarov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post

Either it does make them #1, because the Olympics is the decider, or it doesn't, because they haven't won consistently enough.

BUT, if they haven't won consistently enough, that criteria should probably invalidate our current status as #1.

In other words, either you believe the Olympics is the be-all and end-all, and Canada is #1, or it isn't, in which case Canada isn't, given our lack of success in other tournaments in the last 3 years.

Who has done better than us? Who is near the top as often. And what makes 3 years the cut off? I would think 5 or so would be give a better sample, but I guess there is no set period, unless there is an agenda to a post.

Leo Trollmarov is online now  
Old
12-14-2012, 10:36 AM
  #702
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,392
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchMontana View Post
canada loses world jr's cause their best players are in the nhl. in the olympics russia has no chance
This.

When Canada's best went up against Russia's best at the 2010 Olympics, the Russian team was run out of the building. It wasn't close, and I can't justify any other country ahead of Canada.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is online now  
Old
12-14-2012, 01:42 PM
  #703
Yakushev72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,534
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
This.

When Canada's best went up against Russia's best at the 2010 Olympics, the Russian team was run out of the building. It wasn't close, and I can't justify any other country ahead of Canada.
No doubt that this is a really dumb thread. No doubt this is a troll thread, protestations to the contrary. I'm a Russian fan, but there is no evidence whatsoever to support the proposition that Russia is currently #1. But it really seems moronic to keep bringing up that one single solitary unique only game in Vancouver, 2010. Yes, Canada won 7-3, thanks to an emotional effort spurred on by the flag-waving crowd, and, from the perspective of Russians, a supreme let-down of his team by Nabokov in goal. But it was just one game, and in other games, Canada was lucky to squeak by Slovakia and the United States. If the '72 series was just one game, then Russia's 7-3 victory, by Canadian standards, would have earned them the crown as hockey's superior nation. This same argument, repeated ad nauseum, is not subtlely retarded - it is blatantly, in your face retarded.

Yakushev72 is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 03:16 PM
  #704
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NyLand
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,239
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
I'm a Russian fan, but there is no evidence whatsoever to support the proposition that Russia is currently #1.


Woo, 5th!

NyQuil is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 03:23 PM
  #705
Leo Trollmarov
I was in the pool!!
 
Leo Trollmarov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post


Woo, 5th!
LOL, IIHF rankings.

Might as well ask a kid with crayons to do it.

Leo Trollmarov is online now  
Old
12-14-2012, 03:48 PM
  #706
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NyLand
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,239
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
If the '72 series was just one game, then Russia's 7-3 victory, by Canadian standards, would have earned them the crown as hockey's superior nation.
Yes, it would have have.

As it is, it wasn't.

Winning and losing is based on the rules of the competition.

You can play these "what if" games all day.

If the quarterfinal in Torino would have been only been two periods, then Canada and Russia would have tied.

If there was no round-robin element to the 2002 Olympics, Canada would have been knocked out by Sweden in the first game of the tournament.

Ultimately, the end result is all that matters.


Last edited by NyQuil: 12-14-2012 at 03:53 PM.
NyQuil is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:18 PM
  #707
TollefsenFan
Registered User
 
TollefsenFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: K-town
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post


Woo, 5th!
Norway is coming for ya Soon we will be nr 1. Number 9 in 2011, number 8 in 2012, number 7 in 2013, number 6 in 2014 and so on. This is math

TollefsenFan is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:19 PM
  #708
um
Registered User
 
um's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
LOL, IIHF rankings.

Might as well ask a kid with crayons to do it.
well its based on results. there is no better method of measurement

um is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:24 PM
  #709
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,907
vCash: 500
Nobody has the depth Canada has. Simple as that.

Mr Forever is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:33 PM
  #710
TollefsenFan
Registered User
 
TollefsenFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: K-town
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by um View Post
well its based on results. there is no better method of measurement
Well u got the hfboard method. Look at the roster and make a conclusion like

1 Canada (Allways the best, no mather what)
2 USA (We got like 300 nhl third liners. We rock)
3 Sweden (Detroit red wings + a little extra)
4 Russia (Kovy, Ovi, Malkin, Dats and Semin)
5 Finland (Goalies)
6 Czech rep (Old, but good players)
7 Slovakia (Gabby and Hossa)
8 Switzerland (Hiller and 3 d pairings)
9 Germany (Seidenberg, Seidenberg, Seidenberg)
10 Denmark (6 Nhlrs)
11 Belarus (3 NHLrs)
12 Austria (3 NHLrs)
13 Latvia (1 NHLr)
14 Norway (0 NHL)
15 Ukraine (2 NHLrs, but nothing more)
16 Slovenia (Only Kopitar)

Who cares about the results. Just count the number of NHL players. Then u make a list. U dnt need a ranking. Ranking is stupid, just read a wikipedia article about the subject hockey and make a conclusion. And remember no mather what happens Canada will allways be number 1 and Switzerland will never be among the big 7

TollefsenFan is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:42 PM
  #711
craigcaulks*
Registered Luser.
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Van!
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by um View Post
well its based on results. there is no better method of measurement
Really?

You mean if Russian played Canada, outshot us 67-13, had 4 goals disallowed, hit 5 posts, dominated the game in every area but lost on a fluky bounce you'd declare Canada #1 because the IIHF says so?
There are not nearly enough results to give the IIHF rankings a squirt of merit.

craigcaulks* is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:42 PM
  #712
Incognito
Registered User
 
Incognito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post


Woo, 5th!
That's the IIHF ranking though, which essentially means nothing.

Incognito is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:47 PM
  #713
ViD
Registered User
 
ViD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Blue Jackets Area
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 6,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
No doubt that this is a really dumb thread. No doubt this is a troll thread, protestations to the contrary. I'm a Russian fan, but there is no evidence whatsoever to support the proposition that Russia is currently #1.
This is not a dumb nor a troll thread. The opinion voiced is based on actual results shown by the national teams on different levels and not on hypothetical things proposed over and over again in this thread.

And the results show that Canada has not won ANYTHING since 2010 Olympics. Something that is hard to imagine, but Canada hasn't even won a WJHC or an U18 WJHC. And that's considering all of the WJHC were held in North America.

I understand you all keep bringing the Olympics result from almost 3 years ago, the draft numbers, the number of NHLers, but on the ice, Canada is not winning. Plain and simple.

ViD is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:48 PM
  #714
ViD
Registered User
 
ViD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Blue Jackets Area
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 6,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
That's the IIHF ranking though, which essentially means nothing.
perhaps you could show us some other rating that is meaningful.

ViD is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:49 PM
  #715
ViD
Registered User
 
ViD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Blue Jackets Area
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 6,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Really?

You mean if Russian played Canada, outshot us 67-13, had 4 goals disallowed, hit 5 posts, dominated the game in every area but lost on a fluky bounce you'd declare Canada #1 because the IIHF says so?
There are not nearly enough results to give the IIHF rankings a squirt of merit.
who will remember your shots count or goal post hit counts when everyone will only remember the outcome?

ViD is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:50 PM
  #716
Incognito
Registered User
 
Incognito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViD View Post
perhaps you could show us some other rating that is meaningful.
I'm just saying that using the IIHF rankings as a measure of which nation is best is a flawed approach to take, considering that their rankings are designed to punish success.

Incognito is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:50 PM
  #717
Novak Djokovic
MARC METHOT's #1 FAN
 
Novak Djokovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,693
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViD View Post
perhaps you could show us some other rating that is meaningful.
Sure, Canada is ranked 5th in terms of points, but are you telling me that they're the 5th best in international hockey?

The rankings are heavily influenced by World Championships...a tournament that Canadian players and fans (unfortunately) do not care about. Yeah, they deserve to be 5th on that table, but let's be real here...

Novak Djokovic is online now  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:51 PM
  #718
craigcaulks*
Registered Luser.
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Van!
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViD View Post
perhaps you could show us some other rating that is meaningful.
If he says the IIHF essentially means nothing then pretty much anything would be more meaningful. Google any word and read the 5th result. That has the exact same or more meaning.

craigcaulks* is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:54 PM
  #719
craigcaulks*
Registered Luser.
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Van!
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViD View Post
who will remember your shots count or goal post hit counts when everyone will only remember the outcome?
I think most people with a clue about hockey will remember the game.

==

Let's make it even more clear. We'll say Canada made the finals by beating Denmark, Italy and China. The Russians beat Sweden, Czech and the US. Now it really doesn't matter what you think you may or may not remember, we are discussing the ratings after the result. Would this scenario make Canada the better team when they clearly were not?

craigcaulks* is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:56 PM
  #720
ViD
Registered User
 
ViD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Blue Jackets Area
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 6,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
If he says the IIHF essentially means nothing then pretty much anything would be more meaningful. Google any word and read the 5th result. That has the exact same or more meaning.
so that's the comeback? Thanks, I'll stick with the IIHF rating, rating compiled by a federation that organizes all the national tournaments.

ViD is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:59 PM
  #721
um
Registered User
 
um's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Really?

You mean if Russian played Canada, outshot us 67-13, had 4 goals disallowed, hit 5 posts, dominated the game in every area but lost on a fluky bounce you'd declare Canada #1 because the IIHF says so?
There are not nearly enough results to give the IIHF rankings a squirt of merit.
what are you talking about not enough results, theres a tournament every year and two tournaments every 4 years. thats more than enough to make a ranking off of. and your hypothetical scenario makes no sense why would canada move up in the rankings if they lose?

um is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:02 PM
  #722
TollefsenFan
Registered User
 
TollefsenFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: K-town
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbian Power View Post
Sure, Canada is ranked 5th in terms of points, but are you telling me that they're the 5th best in international hockey?

The rankings are heavily influenced by World Championships...a tournament that Canadian players and fans (unfortunately) do not care about. Yeah, they deserve to be 5th on that table, but let's be real here...
Ok so its like this. You dnt care about the world championship, but you want to be ranked as number 1. U know that u have to win a few tournaments to gain that 1st place, but u dnt bother. When the IIHF then releases the new world ranking u are furious that u are not on the top. To me it just sound stupid. U have to work hard to be number one and the fact is that the canadian national team dosent play with heart.

Its like the student that dosent do the homework. "Im the best, I dnt need to read. Reading is stupid, because we all know that im the smartest and best in class. I dnt care if mr X got an A and i got a D, because im still better than mr X. We all know it."

TollefsenFan is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:03 PM
  #723
craigcaulks*
Registered Luser.
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Van!
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViD View Post
so that's the comeback? Thanks, I'll stick with the IIHF rating, rating compiled by a federation that organizes all the national tournaments.
Well, if you want to base your opinion on a ranking that primarily uses a tournament that usually doesn't have the best players from Canada then have at it. It makes perfect sense.

craigcaulks* is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:04 PM
  #724
um
Registered User
 
um's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
I think most people with a clue about hockey will remember the game.

==

Let's make it even more clear. We'll say Canada made the finals by beating Denmark, Italy and China. The Russians beat Sweden, Czech and the US. Now it really doesn't matter what you think you may or may not remember, we are discussing the ratings after the result. Would this scenario make Canada the better team when they clearly were not?
the outcome is all that matters. as a caps fan i understand this well, especially after watching the caps dominate the habs in the playoffs but we lost because of halak and our "bad luck". its nice to outshoot and look better than your opponent but in the end goaltending, post hits, and flukes are a part of the game they shouldn't be ignored.

um is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:06 PM
  #725
craigcaulks*
Registered Luser.
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Van!
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by um View Post
what are you talking about not enough results, theres a tournament every year and two tournaments every 4 years. thats more than enough to make a ranking off of. and your hypothetical scenario makes no sense why would canada move up in the rankings if they lose?
I think you need to reread my post. It is a preposterous hypothetical situation, but according to the IIHF it would make Canada #1.

The IIHF's ranking are the random musings of another Euro-centred sports body.

craigcaulks* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.