HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Lockout Discussion Thread 4.0

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-14-2012, 06:36 PM
  #301
CN_paladin
Registered User
 
CN_paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westeros
Posts: 2,605
vCash: 500
https://twitter.com/reporterchris/st...38394236575745

Chris Johnston
‏@reporterchris
The NHL complaint also cites tweets supportive of Fehr from @Logancouture, @mattcarle25 and @ScottieUpshall.

Miller's tweets were cited too.

Bettman looks like a genius for imposing the no-comment rule to the owners now.

CN_paladin is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:43 PM
  #302
ECWHSWI
P.K. is perfect.
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
https://twitter.com/reporterchris/st...38394236575745

Chris Johnston
‏@reporterchris
The NHL complaint also cites tweets supportive of Fehr from @Logancouture, @mattcarle25 and @ScottieUpshall.

Miller's tweets were cited too.

Bettman looks like a genius for imposing the no-comment rule to the owners now.
genius not really, attacking the NHLPA as a group is one thing, but players individually, wich the Owners are doing by citing tweets from a few players, is anything but genius. They're taking legal actions against their own product.

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:47 PM
  #303
vokiel
#NoTradesWithEDM
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Midgetland
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The federal courts in NY are very pro-business - these are the same guys who recently ruled that Argentina can't default on its national debt any longer and have to pay it all back.

As TSN's legal analyst Eric Macramalla said,
Yep I thought for a moment that federal was a classification of standardization for some national interpretation but it isn't so. It's just used to denote a court that will work on federal cases period.

Law is so very very flawed .. Notice how there's law in flaw.

vokiel is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 06:48 PM
  #304
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,847
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Yep I thought for a moment that federal was a classification of standardization for some national interpretation but it isn't so. It's just used to denote a court that will work on federal cases period.

Law is so very very flawed .. Notice how there's law in flaw.
If there was anything that got me to lose faith in the legal system, it was law school.

Oh man, this could get nasty. Part of NHL's filing includes section requesting declaration that "all existing contracts between NHL players and teams would be void."

Any you thought the league wasn't playing nice before.


Last edited by Et le But: 12-14-2012 at 07:13 PM.
Et le But is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:17 PM
  #305
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 5,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
If there was anything that got me to lose faith in the legal system, it was law school.

Oh man, this could get nasty. Part of NHL's filing includes section requesting declaration that "all existing contracts between NHL players and teams would be void."

Any you thought the league wasn't playing nice before.
Go ahead Bettman, crush the players, destroy your own product

That cracking sound you hear is the sound of popcorn being made in KHL, SEL, etc front offices.

I'm not surprised that Jeremy Jacobs is looking for a way to stop paying Marc Savard -- reprehensible.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:20 PM
  #306
Not a Fish
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 60
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
This is the only part of your post that I'm going to reply to...
....
.... Fast forward to now and the owners want to claw more back... the players have agreed. The owners want term limits on contracts (the players surprisingly agreed to ten years.) And the justification for this is the poorest teams in the league are losing money. ....




Sure.
From the point of view of a fan of the Montreal Canadiens, Iíd like the time limit on contracts to be 5 years. I would hate to see another incompetent GM handicap the teamís future by signing players to 8, 9, or 10 year contracts as a way to bypass the salary cap. I like trades and I like players that are contributing to the team. I hate being stuck with players that are a liability and are non-tradable because of terrible long-term contracts (see Gomez, Lacavalier, Dipietro, etc.). Hench, on this point, I totally support the owners proposal to limit contracts to seven years for players who re-sign with the same team and five years for free agents.

Not a Fish is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:24 PM
  #307
Habaddict
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 806
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
If there was anything that got me to lose faith in the legal system, it was law school.

Oh man, this could get nasty. Part of NHL's filing includes section requesting declaration that "all existing contracts between NHL players and teams would be void."

Any you thought the league wasn't playing nice before.
Well, Fehr is asking the players to give him a nuclear option. If the
NHLPA is decertified, they cannot agree to a CBA. ......and if there is no
CBA, then the league has no exemption to anti-trust laws. That means
that any player with-out a contract is a free agent, and there can't be anything
like a draft. And certainly nasty. If this question remains open for long,
the equity value of NHL franchises will drop like a rock.

Habaddict is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:24 PM
  #308
CN_paladin
Registered User
 
CN_paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westeros
Posts: 2,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
genius not really, attacking the NHLPA as a group is one thing, but players individually, wich the Owners are doing by citing tweets from a few players, is anything but genius. They're taking legal actions against their own product.
The NHL did not sue those individual players but the NHLPA backed up by negative public comments made by those players.

A lot of people have been sued for way less.

CN_paladin is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:27 PM
  #309
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,057
vCash: 500
Looks like that is it for the season. What happens to the draft if the players decertify? Is it every owner for himself?

OneSharpMarble is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:34 PM
  #310
CN_paladin
Registered User
 
CN_paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westeros
Posts: 2,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Looks like that is it for the season. What happens to the draft if the players decertify? Is it every owner for himself?
Either way, our mad and gigantic fanbase will ensure record revenues regardless and hence marquee players if this goes nuclear.

CN_paladin is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:35 PM
  #311
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 5,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Looks like that is it for the season. What happens to the draft if the players decertify? Is it every owner for himself?
I think the NHL is trying to cancel the season but prevent decertification.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:40 PM
  #312
vokiel
#NoTradesWithEDM
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Midgetland
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
If there was anything that got me to lose faith in the legal system, it was law school.

Oh man, this could get nasty. Part of NHL's filing includes section requesting declaration that "all existing contracts between NHL players and teams would be void."

Any you thought the league wasn't playing nice before.
That was predictable. No more union, no more CBA, contracts are therefor on shaky grounds and I don't think it can be said in part on shaky grounds. The players argue about commitment and respecting contracts and the minute they break said contracts by dissolving their union, they think they can still enforce whatever suited them before... I think not.

vokiel is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:46 PM
  #313
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 5,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
That was predictable. No more union, no more CBA, contracts are therefor on shaky grounds and I don't think it can be said in part on shaky grounds. The players argue about commitment and respecting contracts and the minute they break said contracts by dissolving their union, they think they can still enforce whatever suited them before... I think not.
I think everybody knows that contracts evaporate if the union decertifies ...

DAChampion is online now  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:48 PM
  #314
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,854
vCash: 500
I think it's time for the Canadian teams to decouple from their American brethren. Agree to extend the previous CBA with an eye to sharing the revenue 50/50. When the American's figure out what they are doing reconsider rejoining them. I don't think the Canadian owners want to be in on the no-hockey, triple-damages whammy program.

Frozenice is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:50 PM
  #315
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 5,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I think it's time for the Canadian teams to decouple from their American brethren. Agree to extend the previous CBA with an eye to sharing the revenue 50/50. When the American's figure out what they are doing reconsider rejoining them. I don't think the Canadian owners want to be in on the no-hockey, triple-damages whammy program.
Yes, because a 7-team league can support an 82-game regular season schedule and a 16-win-required playoffs with all the revenue that come with it.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:52 PM
  #316
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I think everybody knows that contracts evaporate if the union decertifies ...
Isn't it up to the parties involved on whether they want to honour the contract. If one party wants out there isn't much to stop them but as an example, Carey Price, he might want to stay in Montreal at the term and conditions of the contract and the Montreal brass probably want to keep him.

Frozenice is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:55 PM
  #317
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Yes, because a 7-team league can support an 82-game regular season schedule and a 16-win-required playoffs with all the revenue that come with it.
I bet they would do just as well with a 64 game regular season and a 12 win playoffs. We can always add extra teams if needed.

Frozenice is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:55 PM
  #318
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 5,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Isn't it up to the parties involved on whether they want to honour the contract. If one party wants out there isn't much to stop them but as an example, Carey Price, he might want to stay in Montreal at the term and conditions of the contract and the Montreal brass probably want to keep him.
I'm sure Montreal wants to keep him, but they'd have to offer a new contract.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
12-14-2012, 07:55 PM
  #319
vokiel
#NoTradesWithEDM
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Midgetland
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Isn't it up to the parties involved on whether they want to honour the contract. If one party wants out there isn't much to stop them but as an example, Carey Price, he might want to stay in Montreal at the term and conditions of the contract and the Montreal brass probably want to keep him.
The portions of the contracts referring to the CBA and the advantages given to the player through this association would need to be rewritten and agreed upon I think.

vokiel is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 08:11 PM
  #320
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,847
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
The portions of the contracts referring to the CBA and the advantages given to the player through this association would need to be rewritten and agreed upon I think.
Well if the league gets its way, there's no decertification so the lockout will continue as is except the NHLPA will be completely *****ed and we will have to wait for whatever new CBA is imposed upon them for players to be resigned. A lot of recently signed players will just get the contracts they had back - except with less years and for less money.

If the contracts are voided because of decertification than without a CBA everything the players want will have to be individually agreed upon. These guys better hope their agents are good at their jobs.

Et le But is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 08:14 PM
  #321
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'm sure Montreal wants to keep him, but they'd have to offer a new contract.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
The portions of the contracts referring to the CBA and the advantages given to the player through this association would need to be rewritten and agreed upon I think.
I'm sure both sides are happy with 70% of the contracts that are signed.

I see our boys Thrower and Dietz are both in the penalty box talking about it now. They call those slashing penalties in the NHL, too.

Frozenice is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 08:16 PM
  #322
vokiel
#NoTradesWithEDM
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Midgetland
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Well if the league gets its way, there's no decertification so the lockout will continue as is except the NHLPA will be completely *****ed and we will have to wait for whatever new CBA is imposed upon them for players to be resigned. A lot of recently signed players will just get the contracts they had back - except with less years and for less money.

If the contracts are voided because of decertification than without a CBA everything the players want will have to be individually agreed upon. These guys better hope their agents are good at their jobs.
Yes that's how I've seen the possible outcomes as well. I'm just rooting for full decertification because that means Molson can send a Brinks truck to Toews' house

vokiel is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 08:21 PM
  #323
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 5,861
vCash: 500
Would Geoff Molson really have the pockets necessary to run the Habs at a lower profit?

Their annual profit is ~50 million dollars at a full salary cap (I think that doesn't include the bell center), and maybe he could lower that somewhat and still be fine, but he still has taxes to pay for (unlike most NHL teams) and still has to pay back the interest and principal on the 300 million dollar loan he took out to buy the team.

I'm sure the Rangers and the Leafs could go to a 100 million dollar payroll, but I'm not sure the Habs could.

I wonder if we would see the same system as in European soccer, where the best club teams are vastly superior to the best national teams. For example, the Spanish team that dominated a few years ago was just the club team FC Barcelone but WITHOUT lionel messi.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
12-14-2012, 08:25 PM
  #324
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,804
vCash: 1100
This just got interesting

LyricalLyricist is offline  
Old
12-14-2012, 08:40 PM
  #325
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,847
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Would Geoff Molson really have the pockets necessary to run the Habs at a lower profit?

Their annual profit is ~50 million dollars at a full salary cap (I think that doesn't include the bell center), and maybe he could lower that somewhat and still be fine, but he still has taxes to pay for (unlike most NHL teams) and still has to pay back the interest and principal on the 300 million dollar loan he took out to buy the team.

I'm sure the Rangers and the Leafs could go to a 100 million dollar payroll, but I'm not sure the Habs could.

I wonder if we would see the same system as in European soccer, where the best club teams are vastly superior to the best national teams. For example, the Spanish team that dominated a few years ago was just the club team FC Barcelone but WITHOUT lionel messi.
Without a CBA the Leafs would be able to radically outspend everyone without a competition. The Habs to a less extreme but I think Molson can afford to compete with say, the Rangers for second place. Don't forget there's Bell as a minority owner and the Molson families other assets, it's not like Molson is personally paying for this team out of his own pocket. It could be bad long term though, since players will demand absurd money from the Habs and there's only so much market expansion potential this team can get, unless they manage to find a way to make the Chinese NHL fans like the NBA has done.

I'm actually worried about the soccer comparison you bring up, I'm a big fan of La Liga and I hate how Real Madrid, Barcelona and English clubs owned by oil barons have ruined the sport.

Et le But is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:45 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.