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Kovalchuk most underated player in NHL?

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Old
12-08-2012, 12:03 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JA#11 View Post
Yeah they had a so-so season...they were a SIX seed that needed 12 shootouts gimmick wins to get to even that slot so if a few of the gimmick shootouts go the other way and they could've easily been a ten seed.

The only team that relied on the shoot more was the panthers who also had a their wins and points padded drastically.the same team who was an overtime goal away from sending the devils home to yet another first rd exit.

As for 2010-11 it's devil fans like you that remember it differently...

That teams horrific play simply can't be pinned on a coach...that is a complete joke of an excuse for a team that had 10 wins at the midpoint of the season!

And it was Kovalchuk front and center playing like an absolute abortion in all 3 zones that yr, not just his usual horrid play in his own zone. He forced plays every time he touched the puck and turned the puck over more in that first half of the year than any player I've ever watched....please tell me that wasn't the case

And the comedy continues with devil fans citing their "magical run" because it happens all the time in sports when a team is just so bad and so far out of it that there is simply ZERO pressure to win as expectations are nonexistent so teams go on nice win streaks and get some momentum....like I said it's happened many times in all sports with basement dwelling teams like they were.


As soon as they got within any reasonable chance at the end and some pressure came back into play they cooled right off and were again back among the 8 worst teams in the NHL when all was said and done.

I admitted that Kovalchuk is a physically gifted player and a top scorer...I just can't stand the whole "he is such a better defensive player now because he's on the devils" nonsense that Devil fans constantly spew.

The guy is a minus player EVERY single season save one in his ten yr career for a reason and that reason is because he has low hockey sense on the ice and is absolutely lost in his own zone. And those minus seasons are with him putting up the offensive stats he does...imagine how bad it will be when he slows down offensively!

Kovalchuk gets his chance again this year as the guy....let's see if he falls flat on his face like he did 2 yrs ago without Zach....time will tell
But after they got rid of the coach they went on an amazing streak

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12-08-2012, 03:29 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JA#11 View Post
Yeah they had a so-so season...they were a SIX seed that needed 12 shootouts gimmick wins to get to even that slot so if a few of the gimmick shootouts go the other way and they could've easily been a ten seed.

The only team that relied on the shoot more was the panthers who also had a their wins and points padded drastically.the same team who was an overtime goal away from sending the devils home to yet another first rd exit.

As for 2010-11 it's devil fans like you that remember it differently...

That teams horrific play simply can't be pinned on a coach...that is a complete joke of an excuse for a team that had 10 wins at the midpoint of the season!

And it was Kovalchuk front and center playing like an absolute abortion in all 3 zones that yr, not just his usual horrid play in his own zone. He forced plays every time he touched the puck and turned the puck over more in that first half of the year than any player I've ever watched....please tell me that wasn't the case

And the comedy continues with devil fans citing their "magical run" because it happens all the time in sports when a team is just so bad and so far out of it that there is simply ZERO pressure to win as expectations are nonexistent so teams go on nice win streaks and get some momentum....like I said it's happened many times in all sports with basement dwelling teams like they were.


As soon as they got within any reasonable chance at the end and some pressure came back into play they cooled right off and were again back among the 8 worst teams in the NHL when all was said and done.

I admitted that Kovalchuk is a physically gifted player and a top scorer...I just can't stand the whole "he is such a better defensive player now because he's on the devils" nonsense that Devil fans constantly spew.

The guy is a minus player EVERY single season save one in his ten yr career for a reason and that reason is because he has low hockey sense on the ice and is absolutely lost in his own zone. And those minus seasons are with him putting up the offensive stats he does...imagine how bad it will be when he slows down offensively!

Kovalchuk gets his chance again this year as the guy....let's see if he falls flat on his face like he did 2 yrs ago without Zach....time will tell
The shootout excuse some people make regarding last year is priceless, it just gets more comical. It's not an excuse at all to disregard the Devils great numbers, its not like they made up the "gimmick" shootout rule to the league. When the playoffs rolled around and everyone joked about the Devils not being able to win games in overtime, what happened? I cant remember, did they lose all their OT games... probably, they cant win in OT!!!

So the 2010-2011 season cant be pinned on one coach, but it can be pinned on one player? A little hypocritical, no? And yes a coach can have just as much, if not more influence on a team than one player. If you think that MacLean did not have a terrible influence as the Devils coach than I dont know what to say, their record after he left speaks for itself. That season was also a transition season for Kovalchuk as he learned new systems, and a whole new style of play.

Kovalchuk is immensely better defensively but he is still average at best. I probably wont reply to you, it just seems to have a vendetta to go out an diminish the strides Kovalchuk has made to be more defensive-minded.

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12-14-2012, 04:53 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iiTzLaMia View Post
But after they got rid of the coach they went on an amazing streak
Easy to go on an "amazing" streak because there is zero pressure or expectations after amassing a whopping 10 wins through the first half of the season!!!

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12-14-2012, 05:34 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JA#11 View Post
Easy to go on an "amazing" streak because there is zero pressure or expectations after amassing a whopping 10 wins through the first half of the season!!!
So it's a coincidence? I think not

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12-14-2012, 09:47 PM
  #230
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Guy has a $100M dollar contract. How exactly is he underrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipops View Post
People always blah blah all he can do is shoot, can't skate or do anything else.

But he is very good defensively and at skating so I don't know what they're talking about. His shot is better than Ovechkin, he handles the puck better than Datysuk and is smarter than Malkin. Basically, he is better than the other russian players and is an overall very good player.

On a personal level, he's very smart and kind, and also very good looking? Why isn't he on the cover of every sports magazine??? He doesn't whine either like the other players, he just plays harder. Which makes him a great leader and could be captain on any team in the nhl.

My point is, Kovalchuk is very good and very underrated by the "experts" on the board. I think its very likely he will be the best in the NHL next season, anyone who says otherwise is underrating him and is the reason for topics like this. He is just destroying the KHL right now, the nhl gms must have trade deals for him together already.
Ok but your title says "in the NHL".

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12-14-2012, 09:49 PM
  #231
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Yeah, he sure was effective in the SCF.

And before the "he was injured!!!11" retorts, remember that he was leading the Devils in scoring for most of the playoffs until the SCF. He folded like a tent under the Kings D. So did Parise, for that matter. Enjoy, Minny!

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12-14-2012, 10:36 PM
  #232
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Speaking on his character, he's been incredible since coming to New Jersey.. He made a commitment to improving his defensive play and actually looked decent on the PK.. With the fans he's also been amazing.. He's always thanking the fans in post game interviews and at the team's meet and greets he is very relaxed and upbeat (you'd be surprised at how some players act like they want to gtfo asap)

I couldn't wait to go out and get his jersey, complete with his A on it because, contrary to what someone on the first page said, he has been a tremendous leader and hard worker in the locker room.. He will most likely be the captain when play resumes

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12-14-2012, 10:42 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
Yeah, he sure was effective in the SCF.

And before the "he was injured!!!11" retorts, remember that he was leading the Devils in scoring for most of the playoffs until the SCF. He folded like a tent under the Kings D. So did Parise, for that matter. Enjoy, Minny!
What a useless comment.. The Devils had twice as many wins against the Kings as all 3 previous opponents combined.. They were 2 wins away from beating the Kings and lost 2 close games in OT.. But really no one was beating the Kings this year, they were amazing and on an unstoppable roll.. They get all the credit for shutting down the Devils, it wasn't like Kovy and Parise just started sucking and the team collapsed

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12-15-2012, 12:10 AM
  #234
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Damn JA#94 makes an appearance in this thread, and I missed it? The supposed Rangers fan that HATES the Devils more than he loves the Rangers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
Yeah, he sure was effective in the SCF.

And before the "he was injured!!!11" retorts, remember that he was leading the Devils in scoring for most of the playoffs until the SCF. He folded like a tent under the Kings D. So did Parise, for that matter. Enjoy, Minny!
I don't like this comment either. If you actually watched Kovy at all during the season or earlier rounds in the playoffs you'd know he was performing 50% at best during that series. Kovy did fold in the SCF, but he was legit injured. He didn't look good for most of the Florida series either, but not quite as bad, and he actually produced a little bit. He was given a shot or something after game 1 against the Flyers, and sat out for game 2. Came back and had a 3 point night. You could see whatever they gave him was wearing off towards the end of the Rangers series.

Him leading the Devils in points during the playoffs is a testament to the kind of player he is, and how he performed not at 100% for most of the playoffs, and how much he means to our team. By the Kings series I don't even think he was 50% Though I will give credit to the Kings. If we were facing some chump jabroni team Kovy may have been able to muster up a little something. In his condition against the Kings though he couldn't. I still think the Kings take the series, but maybe not by going up 3-0. It might have went to 7 with a healthy Kovy. And yes I hope Kopitar, and Brown continue to cone Parise like they did time, and time again during the SCF..

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12-15-2012, 01:13 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
I just hope that Kovalchuk eventually molds himself into the Marian Hossa type player, improving his defensive game to the point where its one of his strengths, then he will be one hell of a player, even better than he is now.
I was saying Kovalchuk should take Hossa's example when they were teammates. Mostly because Hossa's been fantastic defensively since Ottawa.

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12-15-2012, 03:20 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Lolipops View Post
But he is very good defensively and at skating so I don't know what they're talking about. His shot is better than Ovechkin, he handles the puck better than Datysuk and is smarter than Malkin.
Wait a minute...

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12-15-2012, 03:41 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by talkmtv com View Post
Wait a minute...
one would think with that description Kovalchuk is scoring 50+ goals and 90+ points on a yearly basis.....oh wait..

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12-15-2012, 03:58 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
Yeah, he sure was effective in the SCF.

And before the "he was injured!!!11" retorts, remember that he was leading the Devils in scoring for most of the playoffs until the SCF. He folded like a tent under the Kings D. So did Parise, for that matter. Enjoy, Minny!
Actually all you did there was prove how good Kovalchuk is. At 65-70ish percent max, many times looking like he was around 50%, which was due to injury, he still led his team in scoring. He just ran out of gas (and ran into a powerhouse Kings team) by the finals which is understandable when you have a severe back injury. Parise didn't have the same excuse, though Devils fans had grown used to him not stepping up his game in the playoffs. That's a yearly occurrence.

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12-15-2012, 04:05 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Lolipops View Post
People always blah blah all he can do is shoot, can't skate or do anything else.

But he is very good defensively and at skating so I don't know what they're talking about. His shot is better than Ovechkin, he handles the puck better than Datysuk and is smarter than Malkin. Basically, he is better than the other russian players and is an overall very good player.

On a personal level, he's very smart and kind, and also very good looking? Why isn't he on the cover of every sports magazine??? He doesn't whine either like the other players, he just plays harder. Which makes him a great leader and could be captain on any team in the nhl.

My point is, Kovalchuk is very good and very underrated by the "experts" on the board. I think its very likely he will be the best in the NHL next season, anyone who says otherwise is underrating him and is the reason for topics like this. He is just destroying the KHL right now, the nhl gms must have trade deals for him together already.
Can you explain to me how a player making 100,000,000 dollars is underrated?

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12-15-2012, 05:18 AM
  #240
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Serious question - no trolling this time - was there ever a press release revealing the nature of his playoff injury? I've heard a lot of conjecture but never saw anything about post season surgery or anything like that.

Reason I bring this up is that Kings fans were combined Brown and Richards had injuries throughout the SCF and there was never any post season surgery. In fact, the only kKing I know of that had surgery after the Cup win was Quick.

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12-15-2012, 05:19 AM
  #241
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IMO

10-11: Underrated. Just signed the big contract and had a subpar season. Easy target and was one of the worst player in NHL according to HF

11-12: Overrated. Make the Final and essentially redeem his bad previous year and its now enjoying the superstar status he never had before (even though he had has better season)

12-13: ???? (if there's a season)

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12-15-2012, 06:16 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by talkmtv com View Post
Wait a minute...
I do think his shot is on par or better though.

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12-15-2012, 06:20 AM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
Serious question - no trolling this time - was there ever a press release revealing the nature of his playoff injury? I've heard a lot of conjecture but never saw anything about post season surgery or anything like that.

Reason I bring this up is that Kings fans were combined Brown and Richards had injuries throughout the SCF and there was never any post season surgery. In fact, the only kKing I know of that had surgery after the Cup win was Quick.
Well, if you know anything about our GM, you know he likes to keep things ultra quiet. He did say after the playoffs that Kovy had a back injury. I don't remember the specific wording, like whether he said serious or severe or anything, but the fact that he said anything about it was surprising.

I understand many players play through injuries in the playoffs. I have no doubt that some Kings players were injured and other Devils were playing through injury. What I can say is that at the very end of the regular season and all the way through the playoffs (with the exception of a couple games vs. Philly where it seemed quite obvious he got an epidural) he looked extremely slow and had an obviously labored stride. He clearly wasn't close to 100%.

Now I'm not saying Kovy doesn't take some nights off because he does. Only during the regular season, but he does throw in that odd game where he just doesn't seem to be too into it. I can tell you that was not the case in the playoffs. He was trying, he just was clearly laboring. To have still lead the team in points in that condition was pretty amazing.

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Old
12-15-2012, 11:16 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by JA#11 View Post
Can devil fans please stop trying to convince everyone else how much better Kovalchuk is in his own zone just because he is a devil now please?

I realize these endless threads and posts like this trying to pump up Kovalcuk since Zach bolted makes some fans feel better but the guy is a great enough player not to have a campaign launched to pretend that his is still not a disaster in his own zone!

Kovalchuk is a beast goalscorer with a ridiculous shot, supreme athletic ability and yes, he without a doubt burns intensity big time on the ice.....he also however has below average hockey sense and "forcies"more plays then almost anyone else in the NHL due to him playing so much and the amount of time he has the puck but he is an absolute turnover MACHINE.
And his average to subpar hockey sense on the ice has always had him lost in his own zone....always


He has been a minus player in 9 of his 10 yrs in his career including both with the Devils and in his first with them being atop the minus board in the NHL for almost the entire season finishing at a disgusting -26....that simply can't happen with a guy who scores so often and plays so many minutes.:shake head

This past season he was minus 10 and an ugly minus 7 in just 23 playoff games that saw him turning over pucks left and right this post season.

This is the norm for him....he is a minus player EVERY season despite scoring the goals he and his line do so again please stop with how good he is defensively Devil fans!

This is big season for Kovalchuk to step forward and be a guy to lead his team and be the man on a SUCCESSFUL team.

He was the poster boy for one dimensional offensive star on a bad team all those yrs in Atlanta and his one season as "the guy" with Zach out all years it looked like he was back playing in Atlanta with him not being able to transform his tremendous physical talent into leading a successful team on the ice.

Even this year he got Zach back but even with the talent Kovalchuks team only finished 6th and that took something like a league leading 12 or 13 shootout wins just to get that spot before a cindarella run obviously made up for a so-so regular season for his team.

The team is also not setup at all for the future so Kovalchuk has his work cut out for him if he wants to lead anything other than teams that ranged from middle of the pack to bottom feeder that he has every season of his decade long career thus far.

You can't be top 5 in the Nhl as some here are suggesting without changing that...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhh9jfh9kGA

Yeah dude, so lazy, no hustle. For the record, this is coming on a double shift with two fourth liners. I wonder who creates this play by getting gritty in the corner? Surely not Ilya, as he doesn't have the hockey sense to give pressure there.

Want to look at an overpaid lazy guy who was acquired for past playoff heroics? Look no further than #19 in blue.

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12-15-2012, 12:27 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I laughed at he's very good defensively and literally stopped when I read he can handle the puck better than Datsyuk.
This. He is the third or fourth best Russian player, not the first.

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12-15-2012, 12:40 PM
  #246
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how can one of the highest paid players, who goes top five in nearly every fantasy pool be underated

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12-15-2012, 01:04 PM
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
Serious question - no trolling this time - was there ever a press release revealing the nature of his playoff injury? I've heard a lot of conjecture but never saw anything about post season surgery or anything like that.

Reason I bring this up is that Kings fans were combined Brown and Richards had injuries throughout the SCF and there was never any post season surgery. In fact, the only kKing I know of that had surgery after the Cup win was Quick.
It was reported as a herniated disc (http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2...oer_confi.html)

Like the Kings also probably had several other players injured also and go for surgery, the Devils had that happen with Fayne (wrist) and Elias (groin)

Difference between Kovy and the other two though were that Fayne still seemed himself for the most part and although Elias struggled at times, it wasn't too noticable he was nursing a messed up groin - Kovy though it was completely obvious and was to the point he had to sit out a game - Kovy's normal acceleration like that of a ferrari was that of a hummer during the playoffs

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12-16-2012, 01:17 AM
  #248
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IMO

10-11: Underrated. Just signed the big contract and had a subpar season. Easy target and was one of the worst player in NHL according to HF

11-12: Overrated. Make the Final and essentially redeem his bad previous year and its now enjoying the superstar status he never had before (even though he had has better season)

12-13: ???? (if there's a season)
He didn't have a bad year in 10-11 just a bad half a season. He almost carried the team all by himself for the second half of that season. With an injured Zach Parise for the entire second half too. He was scoring OT goals, and was scoring, and setting up plays in games we won by just a goal. He was the backbone along with the brilliance of Jacques Lemaire behind the bench who Ilya was quoted as saying he was the best coach he ever played for, and was sad when he left both times.

Also Kovalchuk, and John Maclean hated each other. I'm talking Tremblay/Roy type hate here though it wasn't made as public. Aside from the fact Maclean sucked as coach and Lou kept him around way past his expiration date these two did not get along. Maclean benched him early in the season for something. Supposedly being late to a mandatory team meeting. He didn't play for Maclean either, and didn't respect him. Maclean bashed him in post game press conferences and once said he could have benched ten guys. Not naming any aside from Kovy who he singled out. When Maclean was fired the players acted like they felt so bad, but Kovy with a troll response said something like ''I'm not the reason he was fired don't worry'' When Lemaire came back he was elite again.

Article on Kovy's health during the playoffs.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=398364

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12-16-2012, 11:29 AM
  #249
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I find Kovalchuk to be a tad overrated on these boards. However, the guy is a freaking warrior.

Led NJ in points during playoffs
Primary assist on all overtime gwg
Co-led playoffs in goals

All of this with a herniated disk in his back. He also made no excuses for his poor play in the finals.

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Old
12-16-2012, 04:42 PM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
Yeah, he sure was effective in the SCF.

And before the "he was injured!!!11" retorts, remember that he was leading the Devils in scoring for most of the playoffs until the SCF. He folded like a tent under the Kings D. So did Parise, for that matter. Enjoy, Minny!
Wow...you just made yourself look as bad as that #11 guy. I'm impressed.

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