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Old
12-15-2012, 05:40 AM
  #51
Oshie97
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Suprised Wing fans are saying no, Whitney and Kronwall would be a good 1st pairing imo and your only giving up a 3rd liner... I could see Whitney putting up a ton of points while Kronwall covers for defensive mistakes which I don't think would be as much as some are making it out to be.

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Old
12-15-2012, 06:16 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
Suprised Wing fans are saying no, Whitney and Kronwall would be a good 1st pairing imo and your only giving up a 3rd liner... I could see Whitney putting up a ton of points while Kronwall covers for defensive mistakes which I don't think would be as much as some are making it out to be.
Didn't Whitney himself say his ankle might not be 100% again himself last year. Can he play RD? He is another left handed shot and a pending UFA. He is more offense than truly defensive, not saying he is terrible, similar to Kronwall (I think he is slightly better in his own end but also an offensive d-man) in this regard we just know what end of the ice he is better on. I am not saying he is a bad player, I am not even saying the value is terrible. Helm is locked in for four years at a shade over 2 million. The management loves him, the coach loves him and he is a guy you count on to go out and give everything every night. He provides a speed and energy that the Wings need. I just wouldn't do it, not saying that others who would are crazy. I also don't think Wings management would entertain this. If they are going to dangle Helm why not up the package with better prospects and target a better d-man?

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Old
12-15-2012, 09:22 AM
  #53
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Whitney is worth seeing if he can re gain his form when he is 100% he's a legitimate top pairing d man something we have 0 of so no this trade is not worth it. Guys like Helm can be developed from within the organization or easily obtained via FA.

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Old
12-15-2012, 10:51 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Whitney is worth seeing if he can re gain his form when he is 100% he's a legitimate top pairing d man something we have 0 of so no this trade is not worth it. Guys like Helm can be developed from within the organization or easily obtained via FA.
You can do that for a third line center, sure. I highly doubt you find one as good as Helm though.

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Old
12-15-2012, 12:03 PM
  #55
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deal! we sent you Nick Schultz and we get Cory Emmerton.
In a thread full of fail, this is takes the cake.

Nick schultz was a huge addition for the Oil and was instrumental in solidifying our defence in the second half. He was the defensive d-man the oiler have needed to add for a the last few year and to trade him now would be simply foolish.Beyond the fact that the oilers have spent years trying to get our defence improved and now that they finally have that there is no chance that Cory emmerton is enough for us to trade Schultz.

Emmerton is a 0.6 ppg AHL player which would be medicre and unlikely to draw a player like Schultz if it was NHL numbers let alone AHL. The oilers would need to get a quality NHL player if they were gutting their defence which is exactly what they would be doing if they dealt Schultz. He is the best defenceman we have in the corners and so he is ideally suited as a 4-6 d-man playing against 2-3 lines who play in the corners. We need him to play the Yin to the yang of an offensive d-man like Justin schultz or Whitney. That would allow us to keep Petry and Smid as our 1-2.

It is unlikely there is an NHL season anyways, but right now the Oilers are probably the Team most suited to weather a year lost to labor strife. We have all of key youngster playing competitive hockey and developing and we have a group of over paid "veterans" having a year burnt off their contract(Horcoff, Khabibulin,Sutton) The veterans we have left need to be kept and Schultz is a key part of that.

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12-15-2012, 12:22 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chayos View Post
In a thread full of fail, this is takes the cake.

Nick schultz was a huge addition for the Oil and was instrumental in solidifying our defence in the second half. He was the defensive d-man the oiler have needed to add for a the last few year and to trade him now would be simply foolish.Beyond the fact that the oilers have spent years trying to get our defence improved and now that they finally have that there is no chance that Cory emmerton is enough for us to trade Schultz.

Emmerton is a 0.6 ppg AHL player which would be medicre and unlikely to draw a player like Schultz if it was NHL numbers let alone AHL. The oilers would need to get a quality NHL player if they were gutting their defence which is exactly what they would be doing if they dealt Schultz. He is the best defenceman we have in the corners and so he is ideally suited as a 4-6 d-man playing against 2-3 lines who play in the corners. We need him to play the Yin to the yang of an offensive d-man like Justin schultz or Whitney. That would allow us to keep Petry and Smid as our 1-2.

It is unlikely there is an NHL season anyways, but right now the Oilers are probably the Team most suited to weather a year lost to labor strife. We have all of key youngster playing competitive hockey and developing and we have a group of over paid "veterans" having a year burnt off their contract(Horcoff, Khabibulin,Sutton) The veterans we have left need to be kept and Schultz is a key part of that.
I think you missed the fact that the whole Emmerton-Schultz thing was a joke. Emmerton isn't even worth a bag of pucks.

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Old
12-15-2012, 12:30 PM
  #57
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Overall I don't like the Whitney-Helm trade because Whitney isn't really what Detroit needs right now and also any additions on the blue line will put Smith back in Grand Rapids.

I know it would probably never happen but where do you Oilers fans value Smid? Especially considering he is an upcoming UFA.
I think he would be a great fit in Detroit. A big, shot blocking, hitting D-man who plays the PK, that's what we need and IMO Smid fits the bill, his give-away numbers are slightly worrying though.

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12-15-2012, 12:43 PM
  #58
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As an Oilers fan, the first thing that came to mind is that Detroit would not accept this trade.

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Old
12-15-2012, 01:58 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by optimuspaul View Post
Overall I don't like the Whitney-Helm trade because Whitney isn't really what Detroit needs right now and also any additions on the blue line will put Smith back in Grand Rapids.

I know it would probably never happen but where do you Oilers fans value Smid? Especially considering he is an upcoming UFA.
I think he would be a great fit in Detroit. A big, shot blocking, hitting D-man who plays the PK, that's what we need and IMO Smid fits the bill, his give-away numbers are slightly worrying though.
They value him highly. As they should.

He's a stud. He's just what we need and just what they need.

I'm sure they would be very pissed if Smid walks.

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12-15-2012, 03:02 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by optimuspaul View Post
Overall I don't like the Whitney-Helm trade because Whitney isn't really what Detroit needs right now and also any additions on the blue line will put Smith back in Grand Rapids.

I know it would probably never happen but where do you Oilers fans value Smid? Especially considering he is an upcoming UFA.
I think he would be a great fit in Detroit. A big, shot blocking, hitting D-man who plays the PK, that's what we need and IMO Smid fits the bill, his give-away numbers are slightly worrying though.
Smid is turning into one of the best Shutdown D in the league. He has had turnover issues in the past, but the scoring chances he takes away from opposing teams more than make up for it.

Everyone says that after the big 4(5) the Oilers do not have trade value. But people forget about Smid. Teams like Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh, Ottawa etc... would love a player like him.

And in reality, Eberle has a greater chance of being traded than Smid.

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Old
12-15-2012, 03:45 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Didn't Whitney himself say his ankle might not be 100% again himself last year. Can he play RD? He is another left handed shot and a pending UFA. He is more offense than truly defensive, not saying he is terrible, similar to Kronwall (I think he is slightly better in his own end but also an offensive d-man) in this regard we just know what end of the ice he is better on. I am not saying he is a bad player, I am not even saying the value is terrible. Helm is locked in for four years at a shade over 2 million. The management loves him, the coach loves him and he is a guy you count on to go out and give everything every night. He provides a speed and energy that the Wings need. I just wouldn't do it, not saying that others who would are crazy. I also don't think Wings management would entertain this. If they are going to dangle Helm why not up the package with better prospects and target a better d-man?
^the Wings should. they are still cup contenders despite losing Lidstrom. Helm and the Wings 1st and a couple of good prospects like Tatar and Nyquist might get a guy like Yandle out of Phoenix? i know it sounds like a lot from the Wings side, but you'd have to overpay to get Yandle and now is not the time for the Wings to do a mini rebuild....they don't need to yet, IMO.

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12-15-2012, 04:11 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by ManByng View Post
^the Wings should. they are still cup contenders despite losing Lidstrom. Helm and the Wings 1st and a couple of good prospects like Tatar and Nyquist might get a guy like Yandle out of Phoenix? i know it sounds like a lot from the Wings side, but you'd have to overpay to get Yandle and now is not the time for the Wings to do a mini rebuild....they don't need to yet, IMO.
No thanks to Yandle; we have roster full of puck movers but not much of physical shutdown dman who can pk.

Helm, 1st and Nyquist/Tatar is not worth what Yandle would bring imo.

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12-15-2012, 04:16 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
No thanks to Yandle; we have roster full of puck movers but not much of physical shutdown dman who can pk.

Helm, 1st and Nyquist/Tatar is not worth what Yandle would bring imo.
^you sure about that? Yandle is pretty damn good, Yotes fans swear he's Norris material you could then make a move on a more middle of the road d-man like Ian White and maybe a pick or prospect with him to get a defensive d-man from someone.

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Old
12-15-2012, 04:19 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ManByng View Post
^the Wings should. they are still cup contenders despite losing Lidstrom. Helm and the Wings 1st and a couple of good prospects like Tatar and Nyquist might get a guy like Yandle out of Phoenix? i know it sounds like a lot from the Wings side, but you'd have to overpay to get Yandle and now is not the time for the Wings to do a mini rebuild....they don't need to yet, IMO.
Yandle is awful in his own zone, his name draws very mixed reviews from Wings fans when you watch a guy that is supposed to be a star player along with his star goalie be the worst two players on their team two straight playoff years, value killed around Detroit. Yandle is a fourth forward, he doesn't hit, he doesn't pk, he shouldn't play #1 centers and isn't a true #1 d-man at all. In fact minus the whole Whitney saying his ankle might not be 100% himself, I think he is probably a better deal than what Yandle will cost and I like him a lot more than Yandle in his own zone. The Wings are where they are they probably need to ride this out. There is also talk that a couple of these RFA players are going to use their leverage in a big way when they come back. Katie Strang hinted that she doesn't think Del Zotto will play for the Rangers this year they are so far apart and expects him to be traded. He has similar problems to Yandle anyway.

What the Wings truly need is a Smid type of player. They can offer a more offensive d-man and a depth forward for a big shut down hopefully right handed (I know Smid is left) pk d-man. They can attempt to try for homerun trades with what they have on the farm, but I don't think that is the answer today, maybe next off-season after they finally play a year and really get a chance to judge this team. Now is not panic time in my opinion.

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Old
12-15-2012, 04:23 PM
  #65
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^don't say that to Yotes fans...when Oiler fans got into it with them regarding Yandle, it was like we had nobody that we could trade them anywhere on our roster or in our system except for our "big 4", he was that valuable.

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12-15-2012, 04:30 PM
  #66
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^don't say that to Yotes fans...when Oiler fans got into it with them regarding Yandle, it was like we had nobody that we could trade them anywhere on our roster or in our system except for our "big 4", he was that valuable.
We are well aware of their feelings on Yandle as we are Calgary's feelings on JayBo. At least the Calgary fans seem to have some sort of reasonable split, Yotes fans have an interesting take on Yandle's value that is for sure. I feel bad for their GM if he does move him no way he gets what they are all saying around here. Then again Yandle is probably really excited for Zbyněk Michálek to be back, maybe he can push his numbers back up and hide the flaws in Yandle's game. I am not buying it and I don't think we have a guy in Detroit right now that can cover for him, that would be a big ask out of Ericsson.

Lucky for us Yotes fans don't like our deal, but don't salivate over trying to rip us off in the same way they do Edmonton whenever that idea is put out there. I will say unfortunately I think Wings management is interested in Yandle so it isn't impossible, but they would not Smith on the table so they clearly have limits.

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12-15-2012, 05:07 PM
  #67
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^i did hear though that apparently Yotes management had been listening to offers for Yandle late last season?

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12-15-2012, 07:15 PM
  #68
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^i did hear though that apparently Yotes management had been listening to offers for Yandle late last season?
They were, from reports. Doesnt mean they will trade, although I feel they could sucker some team into a great package for him.


So what about MPS to Detroit?

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12-15-2012, 07:17 PM
  #69
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Am I the only one who looked at who posted the thread and expected to see Datsyuk and Zetterberg for Gagner, MPS, and a 7th?

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12-15-2012, 07:19 PM
  #70
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Value is skewed towards detroit favor but I still wouldn't do it. People who are saying that a Kronwall-Whitney pairing on D would allow Kronwall to focus more on D have to realize that Kronwall is a much better value playing as a puckmover than defensively. He is slightly above average at best.

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12-15-2012, 07:42 PM
  #71
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Am I the only one who looked at who posted the thread and expected to see Datsyuk and Zetterberg for Gagner, MPS, and a 7th?
Well if you don't know their contract status, maybe?

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12-15-2012, 08:03 PM
  #72
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^don't say that to Yotes fans...when Oiler fans got into it with them regarding Yandle, it was like we had nobody that we could trade them anywhere on our roster or in our system except for our "big 4", he was that valuable.
I think they were saying they wanted something like Smith, Franzen or Filppula, and a 1st from us.

It was mildly amusing...

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12-15-2012, 09:23 PM
  #73
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Suprised Wing fans are saying no, Whitney and Kronwall would be a good 1st pairing imo and your only giving up a 3rd liner...
Yeah, the best checking center in the league and a very valuable PK guy for an injured puckmoving defenseman. He'd be, what? Puckmoving defenseman #8 in Detroit? At some point you need some diversity on the blue line.

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Old
12-16-2012, 01:02 AM
  #74
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Detroit's blueline without Whitney:
Kronwall/White
Ericsson/Smith
Kindl/Quincey
Colaiacovo

Where does Whitney fit, exactly?

He's not going to be paired with Kronwall, because Babcock likes the LH/RH mix.
He's better defensively than Smith, so he won't get Ericsson.

That means Whitney gets Kyle Quincey or Jakub Kindl as a partner, and ends up playing on the third pairing.

Would third-pairing minutes from Whitney be a significant improvement on Quincey or Kindl? I doubt it. Would he play the PP? We're going to see Kronwall/White and then someone/Samuelsson. Smith is going to get a hot and I don't think Whitney would be much better if at all than Smith on the 2nd unit.

So we'd be trading Helm in order to waive Colaiacovo.

SMRT!

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