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Old
12-14-2012, 09:53 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
You gotta love how well Silfverberg is adjusting. I had my concerns but no more. I still don't see a star player in him mind you, but the Jere Lehtinen type that was promised seems very plausible at this juncture.

Regarding Patrick Wiercioch and related matters,

Its so easy to see who makes their opinions based on box scores rather than actual viewings. Some of the criticism around this player has been amusing at times and to see him start to produce is a pleasant sight for us beliebers. Now he gets some credit as a guy with 'a future' rather than a forgotten man (just a few weeks ago). He's been a work in progress. That was terribly obvious from the moment he was drafted and was about 6'5 and 180lbs. You don't just grow into that frame over night by natural (or detrimental) means but his talent has always been obvious... if you were watching, that is. I've been watching the guy since his days at DU and from then on I've been giddy about the idea of a 6'5 D with his puck skills and skating ability. Scouting is a projection, not an analysis of who's better in the moment. Wiercioch's strengths are generally those that can't be taught. His weaknesses have mostly been related to strength. It's been easy to project that he'd be where he is right now, at least in my opinion and experience. None of this should be a surprise. He was always NHL bound.

And right now I see the same thing happening on this board that happend to Wiercioch with Mika Zibanejad: knee jerk reactions to numbers and an inability evaluate performances and put them into perspective. The same people bashed PW in the past and MZ now only to gush over them once they like what they see on a stat sheet. Its also why you see absurd hype over players like Rundblad and Silverberg. So, keep Mika in mind when you take a look at Wiercioch's body of work. A mediocre rookie season (while a player is still a teenager) doesn't mean a player is a 'bust'. Look at the progression and what the player is capable of and project where they'll be by the time their NHL club calls on them.
This common sense stuff tends to prevail over the long haul.

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Old
12-14-2012, 10:18 PM
  #52
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except it's not just about natural skills, and ''stuff you can't teach'' and all that, FQL. Another poor season by Patty and it would have been devastating for his NHL career. Lots of prospects have good tools like Mika but fail because their brains are a step behind.

Neither are sure things, not even close.

Though I never gave up on either of them. Patty I felt needed a good season this year (NHL caliber season) to have a chance at top 4. Which he is having right now. He'd be in the NHL right now if there was a season, and I thought he would need to play at this level right now to have a shot as a career top 4. That said there is no way he was guaranteed to play like this going into the season.

Mika is 19, few players are even in the AHL at that age. Calling him a bust is ridiculous, and he could still be a top 6 forward easily. That said the lack of gushing over him is well deserved. He is not performing like a future 1st line player should be... though he still has that potential.

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Old
12-14-2012, 10:18 PM
  #53
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DaCosta and Silfverberg again, brilliant tonight.

FQL I agree with you but here's the thing, I still don't see where Zibanejad has played below expectations... he was 3 points away from first place before he got injured. Plus he's only 19. His expectations can only be so much. So far I consider him to have been right on track with just the lack of scoring ability but looking at the team as a whole, Zibanejad got injured back when they were "anemic". Zibanejad still pulled off moves that some players would never be able to ever pull off. People forgetting when he just dominated the sens prospect tournament here in Ottawa right? A couple months before the AHL season started.

Quote:
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You have been here all along!

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Old
12-14-2012, 10:31 PM
  #54
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Woah what's with all this logic all of the sudden?

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:01 PM
  #55
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Penquins Insider;

Binghamton 3, WBS 1 12/14

A few stats tell the tale from a 3-1 Binghamton win over WBS tonight.

– The Penguins have played 185 minutes against Binghamton this season and Trevor Smith is the only player to score a goal. He did so twice, once in the second period of the season opener and once in the third period tonight to cut Binghamton’s lead to 2-1.

I asked him why the Penguins have had such a tough time scoring against Binghamton. He said, rather simply, that they have two really good, really big goaltenders. To beat them, you have to get way more pucks and bodies to the net than the Penguins did tonight. That’s really the bottom line.

– The Penguins are 2-5-1 against Binghamton and Hershey this season and 11-3-1 against the rest of the league.
========
http://blogs.citizensvoice.com/penguins/


Last edited by Ski: 12-14-2012 at 11:27 PM.
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Old
12-15-2012, 12:00 AM
  #56
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...
Bobby Butler scored more goals against WBS then we did?

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Old
12-15-2012, 12:01 AM
  #57
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Final Stats......

Final Stats......

Binghamton Senators 3 at Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins 1 - Status: Final
Friday, December 14, 2012 - Mohegan Sun Arena at Casey Plaza

Binghamton 1 1 1 - 3
W-B/Scranton 0 0 1 - 1


1st Period-1, Binghamton, Jessiman 5 (Benoit, Wiercioch), 13:19 (PP). Penalties-Dziurzynski Bng (fighting), 1:34; Grant Wbs (fighting), 1:34; Stone Bng (hooking), 9:05; Uher Wbs (cross-checking), 12:35; Thompson Wbs (roughing), 17:28; Da Costa Bng (slashing), 19:17.

2nd Period-2, Binghamton, Silfverberg 8 (Benoit, Hoffman), 14:15 (PP). Penalties-Gryba Bng (holding), 2:24; Smith Wbs (boarding), 4:39; Grant Wbs (cross-checking), 13:04; Uher Wbs (roughing), 17:13; Jessiman Bng (unsportsmanlike conduct), 20:00; Mormina Wbs (roughing), 20:00.

3rd Period-3, W-B/Scranton, Smith 9 (Ferriero, Morrow), 8:10. 4, Binghamton, Wiercioch 7 (Silfverberg, Da Costa), 16:08. Penalties-Gryba Bng (tripping), 6:08; Bennett Wbs (high-sticking), 6:33; Cannone Bng (interference), 7:13; Jessiman Bng (high-sticking), 10:50.

Shots on Goal-Binghamton 10-15-2-27. W-B/Scranton 6-10-13-29.
Power Play Opportunities-Binghamton 2 / 5; W-B/Scranton 0 / 6.
Goalies-Binghamton, Bishop 6-2-0 (29 shots-28 saves). W-B/Scranton, Thiessen 3-4-1 (27 shots-24 saves).
A-6,166
Referees-Ryan Fraser (14), Jarrod Ragusin (54).
Linesmen-Scott Pomento (25), Bob Goodman (90).

Sen's off till Wednesday when they host these same Pens......


Last edited by ZekeA: 12-15-2012 at 12:05 AM. Reason: to add
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Old
12-15-2012, 12:27 AM
  #58
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I gotta start watching the game more then the chat.

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Old
12-15-2012, 12:30 AM
  #59
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I was out, how were Silf Weircioch and Stone

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Old
12-15-2012, 12:35 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg View Post
^ Lol! It still cracks me up everytime.

This was what I was thinking of below. The PA guy sounded just like him at the at the end haha.


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Old
12-15-2012, 02:07 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
You gotta love how well Silfverberg is adjusting. I had my concerns but no more. I still don't see a star player in him mind you, but the Jere Lehtinen type that was promised seems very plausible at this juncture.

Regarding Patrick Wiercioch and related matters,

Its so easy to see who makes their opinions based on box scores rather than actual viewings. Some of the criticism around this player has been amusing at times and to see him start to produce is a pleasant sight for us beliebers. Now he gets some credit as a guy with 'a future' rather than a forgotten man (just a few weeks ago). He's been a work in progress. That was terribly obvious from the moment he was drafted and was about 6'5 and 180lbs. You don't just grow into that frame over night by natural (or detrimental) means but his talent has always been obvious... if you were watching, that is. I've been watching the guy since his days at DU and from then on I've been giddy about the idea of a 6'5 D with his puck skills and skating ability. Scouting is a projection, not an analysis of who's better in the moment. Wiercioch's strengths are generally those that can't be taught. His weaknesses have mostly been related to strength. It's been easy to project that he'd be where he is right now, at least in my opinion and experience. None of this should be a surprise. He was always NHL bound.

And right now I see the same thing happening on this board that happend to Wiercioch with Mika Zibanejad: knee jerk reactions to numbers and an inability evaluate performances and put them into perspective. The same people bashed PW in the past and MZ now only to gush over them once they like what they see on a stat sheet (also the same people who vote prospects like Borowiecki over him in prospect rankings). Its also why you see absurd hype over players like Rundblad and Silverberg. So, keep Mika in mind when you take a look at Wiercioch's body of work. A mediocre rookie season (while a player is still a teenager) doesn't mean a player is a 'bust'. Look at the progression and what the player is capable of and project where they'll be by the time their NHL club calls on them.

This is some brilliant **** right here, fellas and Xspyrit and AndrePetersson.

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Old
12-15-2012, 08:40 AM
  #62
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Any chance of a re-stream of this game? I was out at a staff Christmas party so I missed it unfortunately.

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Old
12-15-2012, 08:47 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Yep. I wasn't impressed with his AHL play until this year. He looks really seasoned. He's been strong offensively and defensively this year. I could see him as a #4-5PMD.
That is why, you always have to be patient with prospects. Don't give up after 1 bad year, particulary when the kid has lot of potential... Yep, they're just kids growing into men.

That being said, you'd think people would have learn a bit with their experience as NHL fans and give Zibanejad some time to grow into a NHL player. He is 19 y/o playing in a very tough league (particulary this year), still adjusting to the NA game and still going through his "teen to man" transformations...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Scouting is a projection, not an analysis of who's better in the moment.
Quoting for emphasis... When will people understand that simple fact?

Every prospect has a different learning curve and most of the time it is highly related to their physical maturity

I think the Sens has been drafting for maximum upside over short term dividends. It worked with Karlsson and it's on its way to work with several others.


Quote:
And right now I see the same thing happening on this board that happend to Wiercioch with Mika Zibanejad: knee jerk reactions to numbers and an inability evaluate performances and put them into perspective. The same people bashed PW in the past and MZ now only to gush over them once they like what they see on a stat sheet (also the same people who vote prospects like Borowiecki over him in prospect rankings).
Yep and that's why I'm having a bit of fun with this, in advance. A lot of "white sheeps" have been trolled by a few posters who really have a power of persuasion it seems.

No prospect is a sure thing but no prospect is a bust after a few months (some can bust fast, but more like reach-out 6th-7th rounders...)

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This is some brilliant **** right here, fellas and Xspyrit and AndrePetersson.
lol what? You see into the future?

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Old
12-15-2012, 08:55 AM
  #64
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Just watched the Dzurzkinsky fight - what a big, strong guy. Really looking forward to seeing him on the 4th line one day - he's exactly what you want in a bottom 6 player - good for him for developing so quickly and being on the cusp of an NHL callup, great signing by the Murray's.

Weircoche looks like he has his offensive confidence back on the blueline - he is moving along the blueline and loading up that shot like he thinks he's going to score every time he gets one off.

Coach Richardson will be an NHL head coach by next season if he wants it, the guy just gets players playing hard, fast, with confidence and everyone in their rolls. I hope he sticks with Ottawa, but it looks like that spot is filled for the future.

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Old
12-15-2012, 09:10 AM
  #65
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Any chance of a re-stream of this game? I was out at a staff Christmas party so I missed it unfortunately.
Yeah let's all just pick a time.

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Old
12-15-2012, 09:28 AM
  #66
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Richardson will likely be in Bingo for a few years, at least until his Daughter graduates college.

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Old
12-15-2012, 09:32 AM
  #67
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Yeah let's all just pick a time.
Any time today is good for me. Tomorrow I have to heckle Kadri at a marlies game

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Old
12-15-2012, 09:47 AM
  #68
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ahllive.com site is not loading last nights game yet...I'll let you know when it starts working

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Old
12-15-2012, 09:47 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
This is some brilliant **** right here, fellas and Xspyrit and AndrePetersson.
Wait. What? What did I do?

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Old
12-15-2012, 09:50 AM
  #70
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Wait. What? What did I do?
Do the MartyStraka and just give him an infraction without any reason.

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Old
12-15-2012, 10:02 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
You gotta love how well Silfverberg is adjusting. I had my concerns but no more. I still don't see a star player in him mind you, but the Jere Lehtinen type that was promised seems very plausible at this juncture.

Regarding Patrick Wiercioch and related matters,

Its so easy to see who makes their opinions based on box scores rather than actual viewings. Some of the criticism around this player has been amusing at times and to see him start to produce is a pleasant sight for us beliebers. Now he gets some credit as a guy with 'a future' rather than a forgotten man (just a few weeks ago). He's been a work in progress. That was terribly obvious from the moment he was drafted and was about 6'5 and 180lbs. You don't just grow into that frame over night by natural (or detrimental) means but his talent has always been obvious... if you were watching, that is. I've been watching the guy since his days at DU and from then on I've been giddy about the idea of a 6'5 D with his puck skills and skating ability. Scouting is a projection, not an analysis of who's better in the moment. Wiercioch's strengths are generally those that can't be taught. His weaknesses have mostly been related to strength. It's been easy to project that he'd be where he is right now, at least in my opinion and experience. None of this should be a surprise. He was always NHL bound.

And right now I see the same thing happening on this board that happend to Wiercioch with Mika Zibanejad: knee jerk reactions to numbers and an inability evaluate performances and put them into perspective. The same people bashed PW in the past and MZ now only to gush over them once they like what they see on a stat sheet (also the same people who vote prospects like Borowiecki over him in prospect rankings). Its also why you see absurd hype over players like Rundblad and Silverberg. So, keep Mika in mind when you take a look at Wiercioch's body of work. A mediocre rookie season (while a player is still a teenager) doesn't mean a player is a 'bust'. Look at the progression and what the player is capable of and project where they'll be by the time their NHL club calls on them.
While all the points you make are great, I think you might've misunderstood what many have argued re: Zibanejad and that does not involve any "what have you done for me lately" reactions but rather a concern that he's going to be a scorer, based on what he's done in the past scoring-wise and based on what he's shown he's lacking in terms of a few qualities that aren't where we'd want them to be. The analogy to Wieircioch and his teachable assets is a bit odd since many have argued about mostly non-teachable assets and long-term upside.

Also, while I really like what Wieircioch has done this year and think he together with Benoit should be the candidates for the sixth spot once the season starts, he's by no means a sure-fire NHLer regardless what he's shown us this year.

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12-15-2012, 11:05 AM
  #72
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Even though Grant's line has been good, I want to see Stone with a player that distributes the puck better, Hoffman, Dacosta, Silver etc. Most of the time Stone is usually in front of the net while Grant and DD are cycling along the boards, they don't have the vision or the hands to quickly get it in front of the net, its usually to the point for a shot, remembered last year's WJC where Stone's goals came right from Hubs or Stroke feeds down slow for a quick release down low, we don't have those guys but wwe have some better playmakers than Grant and DD.

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12-15-2012, 11:09 AM
  #73
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reply still not working yet...

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Old
12-15-2012, 12:09 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
This common sense stuff tends to prevail over the long haul.
Warning: not as common as advertised.

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Old
12-15-2012, 12:17 PM
  #75
derriko
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Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
Even though Grant's line has been good, I want to see Stone with a player that distributes the puck better, Hoffman, Dacosta, Silver etc. Most of the time Stone is usually in front of the net while Grant and DD are cycling along the boards, they don't have the vision or the hands to quickly get it in front of the net, its usually to the point for a shot, remembered last year's WJC where Stone's goals came right from Hubs or Stroke feeds down slow for a quick release down low, we don't have those guys but wwe have some better playmakers than Grant and DD.
Honestly, I blame Stone for the lack of scoring, not his linemates. He has been absolutely snake bitten. For example, he had a shot at the hash mark yesterday where the Stone I know would've buried it, but he missed the net. He scored a couple goals in the WJC just like it where he got a pass from behind the net and let off a quick wrister, and he scored a lot like that in juniors (but he created more there obviously)

I think hes in a little slump, but will be out of it in the next couple games. He really does have a deceptively good snap / wrist shot.

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