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So Who Is Bummed About The Lockout III ---> Season likely to start on Jan. 19th

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:23 PM
  #51
Fel 96
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!!!!!

Best day ever!

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12-13-2012, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
!!!!!

Best day ever!
So, here I am, about to go to sleep at 6.30am but decide to quickly check new posts on HF. I open up the page three of this thread to find your post on this thread, and, well, I thought it meant something completely different.




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Old
12-13-2012, 10:31 PM
  #53
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I would have quoted Gopher's post if I knew we'd go to the next page.

Whoops.

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12-13-2012, 10:39 PM
  #54
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You got everyone's hopes up and dashed them!

/Minnesota sports fandom

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Blog: First Round Bust: A Cast of Thousands celebrating a rather dodgy track record of Minnesota Wild Drafting.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:11 PM
  #55
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Wait a minute, slow down. Since when did we acquire Heatley and Setoguchi and what happened to Burns and Havlat?

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12-13-2012, 11:32 PM
  #56
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Where in the blue hell did Danny Irmen go!?

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12-13-2012, 11:33 PM
  #57
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Where in the blue hell did Danny Irmen go!?
Into the ether of this memory.


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Old
12-14-2012, 09:06 AM
  #58
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i just think it's strange some people are on board with the players' demands they get a share of the revenue that doesn't go down if revenue goes down. naturally everyone would want that, but it's stupid to think you deserve it after being a huge part of why revenues will be down.


whoever said it above was how i saw Russo too--if you're one side, he looked to be the opposite early on; it's only lately that he's been obviously pro-league. I think the main reason a lot of media have been nice about players is because they really need their cooperation for proper coverage--especially at the beat-writer level.

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12-14-2012, 10:04 AM
  #59
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Ryn, nobody's on board with that, and I haven't heard that there were guarantees in any of their proposals in the last few weeks.

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12-14-2012, 10:39 AM
  #60
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Ryn, nobody's on board with that, and I haven't heard that there were guarantees in any of their proposals in the last few weeks.
The first time they even dropped de-linkage was the proposal they took back to the league last Thursday. Dreger had that tidbit.

That was after the league basically said; "This is our final offer. Take it or leave it." The PA went back to the table with another proposal of their own.

Basically, if you have ever been in a mega dollar contract negotiation... That is a tactic that a side uses to stall. It happened with a consulting company I used to work with when the client was trying to stall to come up with the funds for the project. They would keep coming back to the table with "changes"...

/shrug

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12-14-2012, 12:57 PM
  #61
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i thought it was still linked the first year in that proposal and dropped the second. mistaken?

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12-14-2012, 01:15 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
i thought it was still linked the first year in that proposal and dropped the second. mistaken?
can't find it at work, but supposedly, the PA dropped any de-linked or guaranteed player share from their last proposal...

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12-14-2012, 01:15 PM
  #63
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There's no details released but I haven't heard a word about any kind of linkage. It seemed they were in 100% agreement with the league on the financials.

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12-14-2012, 01:25 PM
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There's no details released but I haven't heard a word about any kind of linkage. It seemed they were in 100% agreement with the league on the financials.
If I remember correctly, the part that keyed it in for me is when it was reported that the PA dropped the part of their proposal which stated;
The Players Share cannot drop below the Players Share from the previous season.

Basically, that is de-linked. If they dropped it, good.

Were the last two proposals posted online? The one from the league and the one from the PA?

Been swamped... and most of those sites are blocked here... /sigh

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12-14-2012, 01:41 PM
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Nothing has been released officially in the last few weeks, just reports of the details.

It honestly sounds like right now they are in agreement except:

1. CBA term (Players want 8, NHL wants 10)
2. Contract length (Players want 8 years I think, NHL 5 with 7 year for re-signing)
3. Transition (will there be amnesty, buyouts, etc)

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Old
12-14-2012, 02:06 PM
  #66
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I say just grandfather in all existing contracts and have them governed by the previous CBA, with provisions for mandatory restructuring if the contract changes hands by way of player trade or waiver pickup.

Pay the full salary, just count it towards the cap as if it had been reduced to be in-line with whatever percentage the new CBA has.

So in other words, a contract worth 5 Million this year should pay out 5 million to the player (pro-rated to however many games there are once/if the season actually starts), but counts towards the cap at the new rate. So the old rate was a 57% player share, correct? And the new one looks like its going to be 50%, so count 50/57 of the contract value toward the cap, but pay 57/57 of the value to the player.

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12-14-2012, 05:49 PM
  #67
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why not just calculate their initial cap hit under the new CBA by starting with the % of the cap they took up the previous year? if Heater ate 6% of the cap then calculate 6% of the new cap and set his hit at that the remainder of his contract.
?

that is % of cap, not payroll.

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12-14-2012, 07:16 PM
  #68
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Morale of the story of the legal action today?

Fehr just got out-lawyered by Bettman.

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Old
12-14-2012, 09:23 PM
  #69
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https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/279747334152257536

Quote:
Part of NHL's filing includes section requesting declaration that "all existing contracts between NHL players and teams would be void."
I knew signing Suter and Parise was too good to be true! That would suck bad! Just imagine the chaos.

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12-14-2012, 09:26 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
Morale of the story of the legal action today?

Fehr just got out-lawyered by Bettman.
And what can the fans take away from this?

We're screwed as fans. That's what we can take away from this.

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12-14-2012, 09:48 PM
  #71
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**** this ****.

Who wants to bet that there's no way we get Suter&Parise on Wild now? And we're probably going to lose AT LEAST Clutterbuck, Brodin, Coyle, Setoguchi, Spurgeon and probably Heatley as well.

More prospects might be lost as well. Spurgeon will leave because he was an Eddy fan growing up and he wants to play either there or with his buddy Ennis in Buffalo. Clutterbuck will get a better contract from any contender + more minutes. Parise suddenly has 30 teams after him when they suddenly have space in the cap, same goes for Suter. No way we can compete. Granlund might or might not stay. Same for Brodin, he doesn't really have any reason to stay here. I bet Coyle would much rather play for SJ as well as Seto who loved it there. He never seemed to like it in Minnesota. Heatley might or might not follow him, but there are teams who are willing to still offer him quite a lot of money.

In short: We're ****ed.

Thanks a lot, you ****ing greedy pieces of ****. Both Bettman and Fehr can go and suck each other for all I care. I just want NHL hockey, is it too much to ask for?

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12-14-2012, 10:00 PM
  #72
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**** this ****.

Who wants to bet that there's no way we get Suter&Parise on Wild now? And we're probably going to lose AT LEAST Clutterbuck, Brodin, Coyle, Setoguchi, Spurgeon and probably Heatley as well.

More prospects might be lost as well. Spurgeon will leave because he was an Eddy fan growing up and he wants to play either there or with his buddy Ennis in Buffalo. Clutterbuck will get a better contract from any contender + more minutes. Parise suddenly has 30 teams after him when they suddenly have space in the cap, same goes for Suter. No way we can compete. Granlund might or might not stay. Same for Brodin, he doesn't really have any reason to stay here. I bet Coyle would much rather play for SJ as well as Seto who loved it there. He never seemed to like it in Minnesota. Heatley might or might not follow him, but there are teams who are willing to still offer him quite a lot of money.

In short: We're ****ed.

Thanks a lot, you ****ing greedy pieces of ****. Both Bettman and Fehr can go and suck each other for all I care. I just want NHL hockey, is it too much to ask for?
sloooow down there. i see this is a stiff arm move. all sorts of big name players and inflated contracts would be effed over if this happens and those players don't want that to happen. my hunch is if this thing gains steam the big players who are laying down will speak up and try to get something done to save their $$$

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12-14-2012, 10:32 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow View Post
**** this ****.

Who wants to bet that there's no way we get Suter&Parise on Wild now? And we're probably going to lose AT LEAST Clutterbuck, Brodin, Coyle, Setoguchi, Spurgeon and probably Heatley as well.

More prospects might be lost as well. Spurgeon will leave because he was an Eddy fan growing up and he wants to play either there or with his buddy Ennis in Buffalo. Clutterbuck will get a better contract from any contender + more minutes. Parise suddenly has 30 teams after him when they suddenly have space in the cap, same goes for Suter. No way we can compete. Granlund might or might not stay. Same for Brodin, he doesn't really have any reason to stay here. I bet Coyle would much rather play for SJ as well as Seto who loved it there. He never seemed to like it in Minnesota. Heatley might or might not follow him, but there are teams who are willing to still offer him quite a lot of money.

In short: We're ****ed.

Thanks a lot, you ****ing greedy pieces of ****. Both Bettman and Fehr can go and suck each other for all I care. I just want NHL hockey, is it too much to ask for?
Don't panic. The chances of it coming to that are very little. There also seems to be some confusion as to whether or not they would actually become UFA's or if they simply wouldn't get paid (meaning teams would still own their rights.) We need more clarification based on the filing today.

It's just one big clusterfudge. But dang, that would be beyond crazy and the end of the league if it happened.

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12-15-2012, 10:32 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/279747334152257536



I knew signing Suter and Parise was too good to be true! That would suck bad! Just imagine the chaos.
That is a solid argument against disclaimer/de-certification actually. The chaos that would ensue can be argued would be damaging to the players far more than damaging to the league.

I just read through the brief and I have to say, that while it is almost a copy and paste of the NBA's filing (in the same sympathetic court) the interesting bits are in the differences.

Example; The fact that the NHL poured over twitter and included all player tweets that voiced absolute support of Fehr. The NHL painted the NHLPA as the best players association out of all 4 bigs.

Basically, the NHL turned the players support against this tactic quite easily. They can show and prove that the players both support the union and in particular Donald Fehr. If that is unanimous support, as the PA claims, then it is plain as day that disclaiming interest or de-certifying is just a negotiating ploy and should be ignored.

Well played, NHL... Well played.

If the players do vote to support disclaiming interest, that will fail in the courts. If it gets that far... I imagine that once the players realize that their backs are against the wall here... They'll understand that the last NHL offer is as good as it is going to get for them.

Basically, this is not going to end well for the players. Once they realize it...

Like I said, Bettman just out-lawyered Fehr.

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12-15-2012, 11:02 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
That is a solid argument against disclaimer/de-certification actually. The chaos that would ensue can be argued would be damaging to the players far more than damaging to the league.

I just read through the brief and I have to say, that while it is almost a copy and paste of the NBA's filing (in the same sympathetic court) the interesting bits are in the differences.

Example; The fact that the NHL poured over twitter and included all player tweets that voiced absolute support of Fehr. The NHL painted the NHLPA as the best players association out of all 4 bigs.

Basically, the NHL turned the players support against this tactic quite easily. They can show and prove that the players both support the union and in particular Donald Fehr. If that is unanimous support, as the PA claims, then it is plain as day that disclaiming interest or de-certifying is just a negotiating ploy and should be ignored.

Well played, NHL... Well played.

If the players do vote to support disclaiming interest, that will fail in the courts. If it gets that far... I imagine that once the players realize that their backs are against the wall here... They'll understand that the last NHL offer is as good as it is going to get for them.

Basically, this is not going to end well for the players. Once they realize it...

Like I said, Bettman just out-lawyered Fehr.

Bettman also just made a very very good case to be offered a **** tone of money by any other league who wants to get a Hard Cap, seriously at this point of the battle its like that scene in Two Towers where they are backed up all the way into the fortress and the enemy is knocking down the door, except there is no Gandalf to bail them out.

Players just need to realize that the fight is over, take your 5 year max (which is better for them anyways, seriously say that a guy plays at 18, his next contract is 21 at 5 year max that takes him to 26 and he can sign his big money deal, then at 31 still get a chance to sign another big deal)

time is running out, players have already lost tone of revenue, do they need to commit sepuku as well?

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