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Jordan Staal traded to Carolina for Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin, 8th overall

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12-14-2012, 06:05 PM
  #526
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Yea, I'd say my biggest issue with the pick is that Pouliot won't have an impact on this team for 3-4 years at least. With how rare top ten picks are with Cup contending teams, I would have liked to get someone who can help us win in the immediate future.

But if DP pans out as a #3 PP QB in a few years from now, can't really argue with the pick.
Grigorenko is the guy that probably would have helped us the soonest. I personally think Forsberg is going to take just as long as Pouliot. The knock on the guy was "has trouble playing against men." That's a big issue for me, and why I wasn't completely sold on taking him at 8.

I think drafting a defenseman is a different beast than drafting a forward, and even picking a defenseman 1st overall, they can almost always use some development time. I think forwards, particularly top 10 ones, should pretty much be NHL ready right out of the gate with very little development time...especially wingers.

I also find it amusing that people were so quick to say that we could just seemingly shift Grigorenko to wing, and all would be well. I have smashed my head against that wall with numerous people here, and oddly enough, a lot of them were vehemently against moving any of our centers to wing in the past, but are very blasé about doing it with a young kid, who really projects as a better center than a winger.

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12-14-2012, 07:35 PM
  #527
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This was a really good trade for Pittsburgh and Carolina. The Penguins made the right move. Staal was going there no matter what.Sutter,Pouliot and Dumoulin are way better then getting nothing for him.

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12-14-2012, 07:44 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Sivek View Post
The Rutherford showing class thing is getting entirely overblown. Carolina has made the playoffs once in the last 6 seasons. If that streak went to 7, he probably would of gotten canned. That's why he made the deal, not because he was trying to be a good Samaritan to help Shero out.

Keeping the 8th pick and Dumoulin doesn't do him much good if Carolina misses the playoffs and he's out of a job and Staal signs with Carolina's new regime in the off-season. It makes a ton of sense to sacrifice those future assets in order to secure his job past the 2012-2013 season.
Spoken as someone who has no idea what the Carolina organization is about. Jim Rutherford will *never* be fired from Carolina. He is our GM until he retires. He is a partial owner of the franchise and thick as thieves with Peter Karmanos. The very definition of job security is Jim Rutherford. Now the motivations behind the Pittsburgh trade? I won't go as far as to say that Rutherford gave up a king's ransom because he felt like it was the right thing to do, but he certainly does the right thing when he can. The uncertainty that Carolina would be able to match any UFA contract that Jordan would get at the 11th hour was certainly a MAJOR incentive in getting him here as an RFA, before anybody else could make an offer, but it wouldn't shock me that if in order to maintain a strong relationship with Pittsburgh that JR made some concessions to benefit the Penguins even if their hands were tied somewhat. It's pretty much the way Carolina, for better or worse, does business. That is why JR has so so many repeat trade partners.

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12-14-2012, 08:52 PM
  #529
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Staal wasn't an RFA, he was signed through 12-13.

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12-15-2012, 03:37 AM
  #530
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I've always heard that the Rangers were in this too. Does anyone know the deal they brought to the table?

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12-15-2012, 06:54 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
If you can go back in time, you would still take Staal over Toews and Backstrom? To be very honest and I have nothing against Staal and like the guy but I'd take the other 2 before Jordan
I'd still take Staal. Toews is vastly overrated and Staal vastly underrated. If you compare even strength and SH scoring, Staal and Toews have been almost dead even until last year. Staal has been terrific in the playoffs. His short handed goal was the single biggest play in the Pens winning the cup. Yeah, Toews won the Conn Smythe, yet he didn't score a single goal in the final series. Not one! It just proves what I've always known. The press loves him for some reason and supposedly has "leadership", so he is vastly overrated.

I'll be that this will become clear now that Staal can let loose in Carolina.

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12-15-2012, 07:02 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
If you can go back in time, you would still take Staal over Toews and Backstrom? To be very honest and I have nothing against Staal and like the guy but I'd take the other 2 before Jordan
Knowing the history, I would pick Staal again for sure. We won a Cup with him. I wouldn't risk that in a do over.

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12-15-2012, 09:29 AM
  #533
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I would take Toews in a do-over, assuming EJ still goes 1st. How can you not? He's captain material, as good or better than Staal in all 3 zones, and seems like he's versatile enough to play wing too.

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12-15-2012, 09:37 AM
  #534
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Yeah i still take Staal. I was at the draft and i wanted Grigorenko at number 8 but the Penguins really really like Derrick Pouliot.

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12-15-2012, 09:51 AM
  #535
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Jordan Staal still isn't done developing. This year, the ceiling has been completely blown off for him. He's going to be given premium mins with some quality linemates, I'd imagine. If he can pot 30-40 goals, and be a PPG guy, I'd rather have him over Toews.

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12-15-2012, 09:54 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
I've always heard that the Rangers were in this too. Does anyone know the deal they brought to the table?
I think Dreger speculated that it would take some combination of Stepan, Kreider, McDonagh. Which the Rangers would never do, since they were non-starters even in the Nash trade. Penguins obviously were asking a lot more from the Rangers because of the division factor.

If I had to speculate, Rangers offer was probably:

Dubi/Anisimov
Erixon
1st

Which is very similar to the actual deal you guys got, but certainly not good enough to trade Staal to a divisional rival.

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12-15-2012, 10:08 AM
  #537
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I think Dreger speculated that it would take some combination of Stepan, Kreider, McDonagh. Which the Rangers would never do, since they were non-starters even in the Nash trade. Penguins obviously were asking a lot more from the Rangers because of the division factor.

If I had to speculate, Rangers offer was probably:

Dubi/Anisimov
Erixon
1st

Which is very similar to the actual deal you guys got, but certainly not good enough to trade Staal to a divisional rival.
Well the Rangers interest most likely helped Shero push Rutherford a bit. Glad the Rangers had a Staal in their corner. Probably gave a bit of legitimacy to the Rangers interest. As Sather had the brother factor going for him in hopes of getting Jordan to sign longterm. Something other teams did not a chance at.

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12-15-2012, 10:13 AM
  #538
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Originally Posted by CaptCally View Post
I think Dreger speculated that it would take some combination of Stepan, Kreider, McDonagh. Which the Rangers would never do, since they were non-starters even in the Nash trade. Penguins obviously were asking a lot more from the Rangers because of the division factor.

If I had to speculate, Rangers offer was probably:

Dubi/Anisimov
Erixon
1st

Which is very similar to the actual deal you guys got, but certainly not good enough to trade Staal to a divisional rival.
I'd never take that. Ever. Rangers don't have the pieces, IMO, to get Staal. Unless they wanted to include Kreider, which they wouldn't do. Actually, I would have been fine with getting McDonagh and Dubinsky back for Staal, but I don't know if the Rags would have been willing to do that. But all in all, we got a great deal from Carolina.

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12-15-2012, 10:32 AM
  #539
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I would have swapped Staal for McDonagh straight up. Longterm partner for Letang > Sutter+two D prospects.

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12-15-2012, 10:39 AM
  #540
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Jordan Staal still isn't done developing. This year, the ceiling has been completely blown off for him. He's going to be given premium mins with some quality linemates, I'd imagine. If he can pot 30-40 goals, and be a PPG guy, I'd rather have him over Toews.
I think they'll experiment with Eric on his wing, but they'll eventually split them up. He'd be a good fit with Skinner. Help insulate him defensively. And Staal's never needed the puck on his stick alot to be effective offensively.

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12-15-2012, 10:41 AM
  #541
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I would have swapped Staal for McDonagh straight up. Longterm partner for Letang > Sutter+two D prospects.
Doumoulin may very well be a partner for Letang. From what I've seen of Dumoulin, he's exactly what a guy like Letang needs.

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12-15-2012, 10:46 AM
  #542
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I would have swapped Staal for McDonagh straight up. Longterm partner for Letang > Sutter+two D prospects.
I would want more than just McDonagh for Staal, not because Staal is technically worth more, but because we are rivals with the Rangers. I'd want Dubinsky back as well.

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12-15-2012, 10:51 AM
  #543
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Doumoulin may very well be a partner for Letang. From what I've seen of Dumoulin, he's exactly what a guy like Letang needs.
He may become that guy for us. But I'd take the sure thing.

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12-15-2012, 11:08 AM
  #544
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I would have swapped Staal for McDonagh straight up. Longterm partner for Letang > Sutter+two D prospects.
Why? We got a young, solid 3rd line center to replace Staal, and those two D prospects are top D prospects, it's not like we got 2 guys like Strait and Bortuzzo with Sutter, these guys project to be good NHL defensemen.

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Doumoulin may very well be a partner for Letang. From what I've seen of Dumoulin, he's exactly what a guy like Letang needs.
I always thought Simon Despres would be a good D partner for Letang, haven't seen Dumoulin play so I can't comment on him.

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12-15-2012, 11:25 AM
  #545
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Dumoulin is the best defensive defenseman we got. I can say that and not think twice about it. As impressive as Bennett has been offensively, Dumoulin has been that impressive defensively for me.

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12-15-2012, 11:48 AM
  #546
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With Orpik declining, Martin having the worst season of his career and Michalek dumped for cap space, I would have absolutely taken McDonagh over the package we got from Carolina. Build around Sid/Geno and find a serviceable 3C via trade or give Jeffrey a shot.

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12-15-2012, 12:56 PM
  #547
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Dumoulin is the best defensive defenseman we got. I can say that and not think twice about it. As impressive as Bennett has been offensively, Dumoulin has been that impressive defensively for me.
He's been given guarded minutes so far in the AHL. I like what i've seen of him so far too but i'll reserve judgement until he's playing top pairing minutes against the best players in the AHL, which are pretty good players this year. He looks to be a keeper though but Morrow i'm not sold on.

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12-15-2012, 01:03 PM
  #548
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He's been given guarded minutes so far in the AHL. I like what i've seen of him so far too but i'll reserve judgement until he's playing top pairing minutes against the best players in the AHL, which are pretty good players this year. He looks to be a keeper though but Morrow i'm not sold on.
Nothing I've seen from him suggests that once the lockout ends and space is cleared, that he cannot settle right into a top 4 role and perform very well.

It's not an if, but a when.

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12-15-2012, 01:06 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
With Orpik declining, Martin having the worst season of his career and Michalek dumped for cap space, I would have absolutely taken McDonagh over the package we got from Carolina. Build around Sid/Geno and find a serviceable 3C via trade or give Jeffrey a shot.
I think that's easier said that done. Your deal is safer. No doubt about that...1 for 1. I would definitely question though if Staal would be enough for a defenseman like McDonagh, but that's a whole different issue.

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12-15-2012, 01:12 PM
  #550
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Rangers would not have traded McDonagh for Staal given Staal's contract situation. They probably offered something similar to what Carolina offered which was a replacement 3C in Dubinsky, a pick and a good prospect. Carolina just had a much better pick to offer.

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