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Old
12-15-2012, 04:18 PM
  #151
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ME was on for his newsconference and he viewed 7 of the bodies...said it was the rifle and all 7 were hit between 3 and 11 times. I'm sick.

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12-15-2012, 04:22 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
No kidding...watching today and some Women Politician just kept trying to sway this towards a mental illness issue and we need to start there...

BS...There is such a thing as people just being flat out evil. I'm related to many who suffer from some form of mental illness and there are the last people that would ever harm anyone...
If people want to talk mental illness then they better get their facts straight. The news outlets need to make sure the "experts" they bring in are legit. None of the fake, wannabe's.

The damage that will be done if they don't will be irreparable.

One of the things that seems to get lost in the discussion is that mental illness is a disease.

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Old
12-15-2012, 04:25 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
I think you're too narrowly defining mental illness. There are many, many different kinds of mental illness and they all affect folks differently.

IMO, what us "normal" people would consider "evil" absolutely stems from a form of mental illness...it's just a different kind of mental illness than most of us see on a day to day basis. You have have some kind of severe mental illness to be so disturbed that you think shooting up an elementary school is the solution to a problem, a good idea, or the right thing to do. Or, to know it's wrong but to not care and do it anyways.
IMO there is no diagnosing this psychopaths...They operate and function normally, all while plotting these heinous acts... This is something far out of the realm of "mental illness" IMO...

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12-15-2012, 04:37 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
IMO there is no diagnosing this psychopaths...They operate and function normally, all while plotting these heinous acts... This is something far out of the realm of "mental illness" IMO...
I couldn't disagree more, and would reiterate that I think you're looking at mental illness from a much too narrow scope.

Just because someone's behavior doesn't fit into a predefined box or diagnosis, doesn't mean that they aren't mentally ill. If someone had physical symptoms that had never been seen before and we couldn't name their disease, would we say that they aren't sick, or try to figure out what's wrong and diagnose them appropriately in hopes they could be saved?

By the very definition of what you describe above..."function normally, all while plotting these heinous acts"...that is the epitome of a mentally ill person, IMO. How sick do you have to be to be able to go to the grocery store to pick up a gallon of milk, smile at a child that you may pass, all while plotting to shoot up a school after you're done with your coffee?

Mental illness isn't just autism, which unfortunately is ALL it seems that the news is focusing on right now. It's also schizophrenia. It's also personality disorder. It's also bipolar disorder. All diseases that could 100% lead a person to what happened yesterday.

I know we want to point at this guy as an animal, and he is one. it feels weird to include him in a group of people who, for the most part, wouldn't hurt a fly. Absolutely. But he was SICK. There was something wrong with him. That's mental illness.

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12-15-2012, 04:40 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
I am a teacher in an urban high school, and since you asked I am going to answer.

This is without question one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard.
in your opinion it is dumb. Im my opinion it is dumb not to consider it and all other options to keep kids safe.

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12-15-2012, 04:41 PM
  #156
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Can't believe people are advocating putting MORE firearms in schools.

What happens if a professor has a **** day and feels like blowing off a little steam? What happens if a delinquent gets a hold of a gun?

This is like trying to fix a pair of pants with a glue stick.
so are you against airline pilots being armed as well. I have not seen any feel like blowing off a little steam and start shooting up a plane yet have you?

problem is with no guns in the school and no one trained to use them there is nothing to stop a shooter until police get there.

NOthing.

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12-15-2012, 04:45 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
I couldn't disagree more, and would reiterate that I think you're looking at mental illness from a much too narrow scope.

Just because someone's behavior doesn't fit into a predefined box or diagnosis, doesn't mean that they aren't mentally ill. If someone had physical symptoms that had never been seen before and we couldn't name their disease, would we say that they aren't sick, or try to figure out what's wrong and diagnose them appropriately in hopes they could be saved?

By the very definition of what you describe above..."function normally, all while plotting these heinous acts"...that is the epitome of a mentally ill person, IMO. How sick do you have to be to be able to go to the grocery store to pick up a gallon of milk, smile at a child that you may pass, all while plotting to shoot up a school after you're done with your coffee?

Mental illness isn't just autism, which unfortunately is ALL it seems that the news is focusing on right now. It's also schizophrenia. It's also personality disorder. It's also bipolar disorder. All diseases that could 100% lead a person to what happened yesterday.

I know we want to point at this guy as an animal, and he is one. it feels weird to include him in a group of people who, for the most part, wouldn't hurt a fly. Absolutely. But he was SICK. There was something wrong with him. That's mental illness.
I think we do kinda agree...It's not the mental illness that people think about when they hear that term...My problem is there are so many types, so different, you cannot lump them all together...

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Old
12-15-2012, 04:45 PM
  #158
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Hell of a college BB game today. It was a classic. Butler-Indiana

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12-15-2012, 04:45 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
ME was on for his newsconference and he viewed 7 of the bodies...said it was the rifle and all 7 were hit between 3 and 11 times. I'm sick.
They haven't said what type of rifle yet.

Laws worked. He tried to buy a rifle and the waiting period apparently stopped him.

As far as I know the rifle and the handguns were owned by his mother. His mother has gone from a kindergarten teacher to someone who only worked at the school part time. You can't believe anything they initially report anymore.

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12-15-2012, 04:46 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
Now imagine having two kids in preschool, and one in kindergarten.

How do I protect them at school?
I have two in first grade and all I can think about is if someone gets into their school with a gun I want someone on staff on site with a gun to try and stop them. The only other option is to have them hide in their cubbies and wait for the police. That is not protecting my children.

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12-15-2012, 04:48 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
so are you against airline pilots being armed as well. I have not seen any feel like blowing off a little steam and start shooting up a plane yet have you?

problem is with no guns in the school and no one trained to use them there is nothing to stop a shooter until police get there.

NOthing.
Exactly...Having someone (not sure who it would be ) be armed would either totally wipe away these kind of things, deter most of them, or have someone there that could maybe limit the damage. Again, not sure who it would be, but we did invent "Homeland Security"...It's time for a similar type thing with schools...

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12-15-2012, 04:48 PM
  #162
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Pardon me if someone already posted it, but the B's web site has a '70's photo of Terry O'Reilly with Andre The Giant.

http://bruins.nhl.com/club/gallery.htm?id=31198

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Old
12-15-2012, 04:50 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
They haven't said what type of rifle yet.

Laws worked. He tried to buy a rifle and the waiting period apparently stopped him.

As far as I know the rifle and the handguns were owned by his mother. His mother has gone from a kindergarten teacher to someone who only worked at the school part time. You can't believe anything they initially report anymore.
I know...it would have been his mothers....I don't have any problems with the laws...the ME was just on though during his news conference and said the bullets were indeed fired by the "long gun". He didn't say what caliber but he said he has seen enough to know what shoots them.

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12-15-2012, 04:51 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Exactly...Having someone (not sure who it would be ) be armed would either totally wipe away these kind of things, deter most of them, or have someone there that could maybe limit the damage. Again, not sure who it would be, but we did invent "Homeland Security"...It's time for a similar type thing with schools...
I am with you Lou. I want someone there to try and protect my kids. I don't know who but someone. Either a select group of teachers trained in every school, part of national guard services is having two armed at every school as part of their services, I don't know the answer but I do know as a parent of two first graders I want someone in the school to have the ability to try and stop someone like this before they kill 20 kids.

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12-15-2012, 04:53 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
I am with you Lou. I want someone there to try and protect my kids. I don't know who but someone. Either a select group of teachers trained in every school, part of national guard services is having two armed at every school as part of their services, I don't know the answer but I do know as a parent of two first graders I want someone in the school to have the ability to try and stop someone like this before they kill 20 kids.
These cowards that do this, pick the weak and then kill themselves so they can't even face the music. Had he known there was an armed official or two in there he never goes in there...never IMO. The police got there in less then 9 minutes, which is pretty good, and even that was too late. It is our job to protect our children. Give them a safe environment to learn. Whether it be Federal or State, somebody needs to come up with something, and quick. This is the world we now live in... The simplest things taken away from us

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Old
12-15-2012, 04:55 PM
  #166
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Security personnel, armed or not, should be in addition to teachers.
Let the teachers do what they are trained to do. Let security officers do the same.

Most urban schools have security officers...you have to think there's a reason most of these happen in more rural places that are unguarded, and would hope that additional security presence would deter these people.

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12-15-2012, 04:57 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
These cowards that do this, pick the weak and then kill themselves so they can't even face the music. Had he known there was an armed official or two in there he never goes in there...never IMO.
yup he when the kill themselves before the other guy with the gun's gets there it's their esay way out.

knowing there are armed people in the school the kid probably kills his mother and himself and never goes to the school. And if he does he gets gunned down after fighting with the principal and never gets to the kids class room.

the only way to fight a guy with a gun it to have a gun. waiting for the cop's to get there is not good enough.

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Old
12-15-2012, 04:58 PM
  #168
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Security personnel, armed or not, should be in addition to teachers.
Let the teachers do what they are trained to do. Let security officers do the same.

Most urban schools have security officers...you have to think there's a reason most of these happen in more rural places that are unguarded, and would hope that additional security presence would deter these people.
I am fine with that. My idea of voluntter teachers carrying was just and idea to avoid extra cost at the school for armed guards because the cost will be the reason for them not to get them.

I just want something to protect my kids. I don't even want them to go to school monday.

but I think they have to be armed. unarmed can do nothing to stop a guy with a gun. nothing.

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12-15-2012, 05:01 PM
  #169
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Well it looks like NESN has game #6 against the Nucks on.

I will watch...again

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12-15-2012, 05:02 PM
  #170
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Well it looks like NESN has game #6 agaonse the Nucks.

I will watch...again
They just showed us losing 1-0. I was like, "WTF, NESN?"

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12-15-2012, 05:04 PM
  #171
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There are likely steps that can be taken to better secure schools, without introducing firearms.

He broke the glass to get in. Can't schools be built with non-penetrable materials at access points? When that glass broke, couldn't there have been a school-wide alarm prompting classrooms into lockdown?

Likely wouldn't have saved everyone, but could have saved some.

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12-15-2012, 05:05 PM
  #172
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I couldn't disagree more, and would reiterate that I think you're looking at mental illness from a much too narrow scope.

Just because someone's behavior doesn't fit into a predefined box or diagnosis, doesn't mean that they aren't mentally ill. If someone had physical symptoms that had never been seen before and we couldn't name their disease, would we say that they aren't sick, or try to figure out what's wrong and diagnose them appropriately in hopes they could be saved?

By the very definition of what you describe above..."function normally, all while plotting these heinous acts"...that is the epitome of a mentally ill person, IMO. How sick do you have to be to be able to go to the grocery store to pick up a gallon of milk, smile at a child that you may pass, all while plotting to shoot up a school after you're done with your coffee?

Mental illness isn't just autism, which unfortunately is ALL it seems that the news is focusing on right now. It's also schizophrenia. It's also personality disorder. It's also bipolar disorder. All diseases that could 100% lead a person to what happened yesterday.

I know we want to point at this guy as an animal, and he is one. it feels weird to include him in a group of people who, for the most part, wouldn't hurt a fly. Absolutely. But he was SICK. There was something wrong with him. That's mental illness.
I think they're going to find other contributing factors above and beyond autism. Not the first mass killing. Just the first time it was someone w/ autism, or asperger's. Autism doesn't make you a sociopath, neither does Asperger's. Schizophrenia, sure. Borderline personality, yup. That doesn't explain a lot of these other "nuts". Columbine, VT shooter, etc.

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12-15-2012, 05:06 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
There are likely steps that can be taken to better secure schools, without introducing firearms.

He broke the glass to get in. Can't schools be built with non-penetrable materials at access points? When that glass broke, couldn't there have been a school-wide alarm prompting classrooms into lockdown?

Likely wouldn't have saved everyone, but could have saved some.
but the point is lockdown does nothing. he still has time to shoot until the cops get there. in that response time people will die.

put in non-penetrable materials at access points and he shoots out a window. If someone wants in that bad and is armed you are not stoping them.

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12-15-2012, 05:10 PM
  #174
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I think they're going to find other contributing factors above and beyond autism. Not the first mass killing. Just the first time it was someone w/ autism, or asperger's. Autism doesn't make you a sociopath, neither does Asperger's. Schizophrenia, sure. Borderline personality, yup. That doesn't explain a lot of these other "nuts". Columbine, VT shooter, etc.
Nope, it doesn't. But they were sick, too...we just don't know from what.

As someone that works for a Managed Behavioral Health Care company that has one branch focused strictly on autism services, I find the focus on that to be irresponsible. There was something else going on. Let's talk about that.

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12-15-2012, 05:12 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
There are likely steps that can be taken to better secure schools, without introducing firearms.

He broke the glass to get in. Can't schools be built with non-penetrable materials at access points? When that glass broke, couldn't there have been a school-wide alarm prompting classrooms into lockdown?

Likely wouldn't have saved everyone, but could have saved some.
If he knew he'd be confronted w/ deadly force, he'd of gone somewhere else. He went there knowing it was going to be a turkey shoot. Just like all the other *******s.

We have armed personnel at abortion clinics. Haven't heard a/b anyone shooting up any of those lately.

My wife calculated it based on average PD salary and 150,000 schools. About 5 billion. Considering what's at stake, that's not a lot of money.

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