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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Lockout IV: One likes to believe in the freedom of hockey (Moderated: see post #2)

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Old
12-15-2012, 05:33 PM
  #901
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Parity is a Disease
 
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
So? You hate parity because the Wings can't buy a cup now? Really? How is a team being able to buy a cup every year good for hockey?
I hate parity because it waters down the product. While the Wings were loading teams with high caliber talent other teams were as well. When those teams met you saw hockey played at a very high level. Now all the teams are mediocre and IMO the product isn't as good. I would argue that Detroit's owner made a series of good decisions. He bought a hockey franchise in a hockey market. He hired quality management. He marketed his product. He produced a hugely successful team and sustained it for an extended period of time. Now his hands are tied and the product suffers. Teams like the Yankees and the NY Rangers have proven that simply spending the most money doesn't win you championships every year but with parity the cup is simply a roll of the dice. Whoo hoo! My team was the least bad!

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12-15-2012, 05:37 PM
  #902
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I totally agree with the rest of your post although relocation would be a better option for players as well as fans.
Contract a few, relocate some others to more efficient hockey markets (GTA, QC, Seattle), and then the remaining weaklings would benefit from revenue sharing the way it was initially intended. Rather than to sharply increase the taxation of the efficient markets, the league should instead place its franchises in locations capable of largely standing on their own. One of the guests on Prime Time Sports (Fan 590/Sportsnet) on Friday stated that three NHL teams last season lost an average of $35 million each. Those three locations should be immediately dropped by the NHL like a hot potato and by whatever means necessary.

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12-15-2012, 05:38 PM
  #903
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So? You hate parity because the Wings can't buy a cup now? Really? How is a team being able to buy a cup every year good for hockey?
It's as good a system as any, let the fan base that cares the most by spending the most rule the roost. If you don't like it, drum up support for your team and join the fight. Why should some guy live in the biggest house just because he spends the most?

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12-15-2012, 05:38 PM
  #904
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So tell me which teams are most showed on NBC. About 6 of them, give it your best shot. Hint, NBC does not want a Canadian team in the finals to drag down ratings. Or small markets.

Go.
Chicago, Philly, Pittsburgh, Boston, Detroit, Washington, Rangers.

I think you're making an assumption as to why they don't show Canadian teams. The Canadian media (TSN/RDS/CBC/SN) seem to have the best games there covered already. I can watch almost every game between a Canadian club and one of those 7 teams.

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12-15-2012, 05:38 PM
  #905
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actually you did, maybe you need to re-read your own post
Actually I did not. Apparently you misunderstood the words "No longer". That was intended to mean that at the pro level they aren't playing for fun like they were when they were kids on the pond.

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12-15-2012, 05:38 PM
  #906
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I hate parity because it waters down the product. While the Wings were loading teams with high caliber talent other teams were as well. When those teams met you saw hockey played at a very high level. Now all the teams are mediocre and IMO the product isn't as good. I would argue that Detroit's owner made a series of good decisions. He bought a hockey franchise in a hockey market. He hired quality management. He marketed his product. He produced a hugely successful team and sustained it for an extended period of time. Now his hands are tied and the product suffers. Teams like the Yankees and the NY Rangers have proven that simply spending the most money doesn't win you championships every year but with parity the cup is simply a roll of the dice. Whoo hoo! My team was the least bad!
Woo hoo! More teams and markets aren't eliminated by the all-star break! More fans tuning in!

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12-15-2012, 05:41 PM
  #907
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It's as good a system as any, let the fan base that cares the most by spending the most rule the roost. If you don't like it, drum up support for your team and join the fight. Why should some guy live in the biggest house just because he spends the most?
Because while it might be great for Toronto it's bad for the sport. And THAT'S what I care about. The championship of any sport shouldn't be determined by who's fans somebody thinks are more deserving than others.....kind of defeats the purpose of playing the games nicht wahr?

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12-15-2012, 05:44 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Because while it might be great for Toronto it's bad for the sport. And THAT'S what I care about. The championship of any sport shouldn't be determined by who's fans somebody thinks are more deserving than others.....kind of defeats the purpose of playing the games nicht wahr?
It's good for all the big market teams but I agree not so much for the small market teams. Oh well can't please everyone.

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12-15-2012, 05:45 PM
  #909
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You and I can't even agree on 'actual', where I feel you twist things more than a windmill during a wind storm, and move goal posts. I'm sure you read more into my comments than I see being there, but there you have it. It's like a bad marriage. Best we move on.
Stop waving your hands Fugu and please discuss the actual topic.

You made the following claim:

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I think you'll see more European players staying home over taking the lower pay that trickles down due to 50% share and 5 yr contracting limits.
So you think more European players are staying at home when less than 30% of European players are from Russia (thus not staying at home if they play in KHL) and when the highest paying league in Europe (KHL) has average salary of roughly 20% of the that in the NHL?

You really think that?

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12-15-2012, 05:45 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
It's as good a system as any, let the fan base that cares the most by spending the most rule the roost. If you don't like it, drum up support for your team and join the fight. Why should some guy live in the biggest house just because he spends the most?
And is a detriment to the league as a whole. There's a reason why the leagues revenue grew by leaps and bounds with the last CBA.

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12-15-2012, 05:47 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Because while it might be great for Toronto it's bad for the sport. And THAT'S what I care about. The championship of any sport shouldn't be determined by who's fans somebody thinks are more deserving than others.....kind of defeats the purpose of playing the games nicht wahr?
So if a team is well run and attracts fans that team should not have a better chance of winning?

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12-15-2012, 05:47 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
I hate parity because it waters down the product. While the Wings were loading teams with high caliber talent other teams were as well. When those teams met you saw hockey played at a very high level. Now all the teams are mediocre and IMO the product isn't as good. I would argue that Detroit's owner made a series of good decisions. He bought a hockey franchise in a hockey market. He hired quality management. He marketed his product. He produced a hugely successful team and sustained it for an extended period of time. Now his hands are tied and the product suffers. Teams like the Yankees and the NY Rangers have proven that simply spending the most money doesn't win you championships every year but with parity the cup is simply a roll of the dice. Whoo hoo! My team was the least bad!
You're going to cite baseball in your argument that parity is less exciting.

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12-15-2012, 05:48 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
So if a team is well run and attracts fans that team should not have a better chance of winning?
Having more money = well-run now?

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12-15-2012, 05:49 PM
  #914
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Wow, holy contradiction Batman!

If Detroit was one of the best run franchises, how come they are only mediocre under the salary cap?

If the franchise was run so great, shouldn't they be better than mediocre?
Because they are not allowed to spend the money they have and want to. Detroit is not a great destination, its a great team with great owners, but it kinda sucks to live here because there is not a ton to do if you are a big city person. Putting a cap on spending to create a better team in a market that wont support it is pure stupidity.

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12-15-2012, 05:50 PM
  #915
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You're going to cite baseball in your argument that parity is less exciting.
Actually no. I am arguing that hockey was better before expansion and the cap.

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12-15-2012, 05:50 PM
  #916
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It's not so much that they agreed on that CBA. It was a Bettman-Batterman Special, sponsored by Proskauer-Rose. Ask Don Meehan how that one unraveled for Goodenow.
No Fugu, NHLPA agreed to those terms. I know how much you hate Bettman, Batterman and the law firm they employ but no need to make false claims.

And I'd like to see Captain Bob explain to me how that deal was based on existing deals. His claim was 100% wrong.

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12-15-2012, 05:55 PM
  #917
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Actually no. I am arguing that hockey was better before expansion and the cap.
Newsflash: The Original Six era ain't coming back and would have no chance of surviving as a major league in this day and age.

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12-15-2012, 05:55 PM
  #918
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Having more money = well-run now?
Yes, being well run leads to more money. Create a good product as the Wings did and people will support it.

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12-15-2012, 05:56 PM
  #919
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Actually no. I am arguing that hockey was better before expansion and the cap.
I must have misread "I hate parity because it waters down the product".

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12-15-2012, 05:57 PM
  #920
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Actually no. I am arguing that hockey was better before expansion and the cap.
I'd argue hockey was better before everyone started using the trap and allowing goalies to dress up like the Michelin Man.....nothing to do with expansion or caps.

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12-15-2012, 05:58 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
Yes, being well run leads to more money. Create a good product as the Wings did and people will support it.
Really? So if a billionaire decides they want to have a really good hockey team and let's their team spend as much as they'd like, they got more money by being well-run. Makes sense.

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12-15-2012, 06:00 PM
  #922
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I hate parity because it waters down the product. While the Wings were loading teams with high caliber talent other teams were as well. When those teams met you saw hockey played at a very high level. Now all the teams are mediocre and IMO the product isn't as good.
That's your opinion and I respect it, though I fully disagree. Hockey has never been better, largely because of parity.

I'm an old-school fan and I'd love to see more emotion & physicality (I loved the days of Bruise Brothers, Philly loaded with enforcers, Ducks & Stars having so many fights that officials didn't want to call any icings, off-sides etc because they feared that the resulting face-off would result in more 5 on 5 brawls etc) but it's impossible to argue that salary cap hasn't made the game more exciting because of parity.

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12-15-2012, 06:01 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
So watching the University of Alabama beat up on Alcorn State is entertaining? I'm sorry, but squash matches aren't entertaining. Competitive games are. When a few teams buy up all the best players you wind up with far fewer competitive games as most of the teams become no-hopers. And people have no reason to tune in to watch that.

And btw, since when does attracting more fans equal "more morons attracted to game"? Quite frankly that's insulting to the vast majority of fans out there.
Repeated lockouts and parity in order to support crappy markets and catering to apathetic fan bases is insulting to those who grow up supporting and enjoying quality hockey. If your franchise can't afford to compete then make the franchise better instead of insisting all the other franchises get worse.

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12-15-2012, 06:01 PM
  #924
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Really? So if a billionaire decides they want to have a really good hockey team and let's their team spend as much as they'd like, they got more money by being well-run. Makes sense.
It's funny, well-run in sports used to mean astute drafting, smart player developement, and shrewd trades.....now it means having gobs of money to buy a championship

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12-15-2012, 06:04 PM
  #925
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Stop waving your hands Fugu and please discuss the actual topic.

You made the following claim:



So you think more European players are staying at home when less than 30% of European players are from Russia (thus not staying at home if they play in KHL) and when the highest paying league in Europe (KHL) has average salary of roughly 20% of the that in the NHL?

You really think that?
I cannot confirm I think that because I have no idea what you just wrote....but it doesn't really seem like I think that. If I had a thought on the topic, it would make sense. This takes some leaps of faith to support, so nope, I don't think that after all.

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