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History of the Loser Point

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Old
12-14-2012, 10:48 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
The team who lost the game got a point. Is that not true?
It's still unrelated. The team who won got the same point.

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12-14-2012, 10:53 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Clamshells View Post
It's still unrelated. The team who won got the same point.
Why does a team deserve a half a win if they make it to OT?

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Old
12-14-2012, 10:57 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
Why does a team deserve a half a win if they make it to OT?
That has been my main beef the whole time. The whole system encourages teams to play like garbage in the third to secure one point. Its aggravating sometimes.

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:01 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
Why does a team deserve a half a win if they make it to OT?
Why shouldn't they? Regulation is 92% of the total possible playing time. Why are those last 5 minutes worth half a win?

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12-14-2012, 11:03 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Clamshells View Post
Why shouldn't they? Regulation is 92% of the total possible playing time. Why are those last 5 minutes worth half a win?
Because the game isn't over yet. You either win or lose. You shouldn't get anything for playing 92% of the game when you didn't play that other 8% of it.

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:06 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
Because the game isn't over yet. You either win or lose. You shouldn't get anything for playing 92% of the game when you didn't play that other 8% of it.
The game isnt over because overtime is an arbitrary addition. After playing a full game of hockey (60 minutes) no one has won. They tied. They get a bonus round to get the extra point.

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12-14-2012, 11:10 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Clamshells View Post
The game isnt over because overtime is an arbitrary addition. After playing a full game of hockey (60 minutes) no one has won. They tied. They get a bonus round to get the extra point.
So then how come no other sport has this system? That's probably because it's stupid.

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:30 PM
  #108
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My biggest wish is that we would go to a 3-2-1 system. No way that you should get the same amount of points for a shootout win as a regulation win.

I do like the idea however of abandoning the shootout and giving the teams ZERO points if they are still tied after 5 minutes of OT. That will get em playing in extra time

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:38 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
So then how come no other sport has this system? That's probably because it's stupid.
That has been explained and beaten to death. Stop acting like it hasn't.

Reasons why no other sport has this system:

1) It's harder to score in hockey than it is in basketball, football, or baseball.

2) The NHL is the only of the Big 4 leagues that COMPLETELY CHANGES THE RULES OF THE GAME for overtime.

This isn't rocket science...

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:41 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
That has been explained and beaten to death. Stop acting like it hasn't.

Reasons why no other sport has this system:

1) It's harder to score in hockey than it is in basketball, football, or baseball.

2) The NHL is the only of the Big 4 leagues that COMPLETELY CHANGES THE RULES OF THE GAME for overtime.

This isn't rocket science...
None of those reasons makes it okay to give a team credit for losing.

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:43 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
None of those reasons makes it okay to give a team credit for losing.
Again, they aren't getting credit for losing, they are getting credit for tying the 5 on 5 60 minute game.

It's clearly your prerogative to pretend to not understand this fact, so I am done debating the topic.

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Old
12-15-2012, 12:14 AM
  #112
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call it the tying point

everyone happy?

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Old
12-15-2012, 12:15 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Again, they aren't getting credit for losing, they are getting credit for tying the 5 on 5 60 minute game.
Exactly this, although I can see where there's SOME confusion as the 3rd point is often categorized as "OTL", even if it doesn't make it any more correct.

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Old
12-15-2012, 03:12 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Again, they aren't getting credit for losing, they are getting credit for tying the 5 on 5 60 minute game.

It's clearly your prerogative to pretend to not understand this fact, so I am done debating the topic.
Then I guess if a baseball game is tied after 6 innings, teams should be awarded with a half a win. Then whoever wins the last three innings should be awarded another half a win. But the team that lost ends up with one more half win than they had before they entered the game. Makes sense.

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Last edited by Jet: 12-16-2012 at 02:34 PM. Reason: make your point and leave it at that
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Old
12-15-2012, 07:17 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
Then I guess if a baseball game is tied after 6 innings, teams should be awarded with a half a win. Then whoever wins the last three innings should be awarded another half a win. But the team that lost ends up with one more half win than they had before they entered the game. Makes sense.

[mod]
That comparison makes no sense at all, a normal Baseball game last nine innings, just like a normal hockey game last 60 minutes. A hockey game can end up tied after 60 minutes, a Baseball game can't end in any way after six innings as the game isn't over yet.

A 3-2-1 point system would probably work better than what the league currently uses, but the complaints about this are way overblown.


Last edited by Jet: 12-16-2012 at 02:34 PM. Reason: qep
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Old
12-15-2012, 01:04 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by spiny norman View Post
I agree, the opportunity to win 3 points rather than 2 would give teams more incentive to win a game in regulation time.

It would also be more entertaining for the fans.
ah yes - the old "incentive to win a game in regulation time" (just try harder!!) argument. You do realize the other team is also "trying harder" right?

Use the half point system:

2 pts regulation win
1.5 pts OT or SO win
0.5 pt OT or SO loss
0 pt regulation loss

This system achieves several things:

1. every game is awarded the same point total: 2
2. regulation win is worth more than OT or SO win
3. NHL historic records are "somewhat" kept intact. I realize that they are already skewed with the recent 3-pt games, but if you start awarding 3 pts for a win, teams will get 108 points and miss the playoffs. That just sounds weird.

Any point system is arbitrary, it's just that I don't want so see ALL NHL records be meaningless after 15 years of awarding 3 points for a win. And we all know this would happen.

4. 1/2 games in the standings have been around in baseball forever. And following a traditional NA sport like baseball makes a hell of a lot more sense than following whatever soccer may or may not do.
5. makes a 100 point season mean something again.


Last edited by Butch 19: 12-15-2012 at 02:35 PM. Reason: added #5
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Old
12-15-2012, 01:16 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post

Have you noticed that hockey has a lot less scoring than these other sports? Maybe that has something to do with it.
I'm sorry, but that's pretty weak. Less scoring has nothing to do with it. Football and basketball are scored differently. Basketball doesn't have miniature goalies guarding the basket and goals in the NHL aren't worth two points. You also don't get seven points for a goal and three for hitting the post.

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Old
12-15-2012, 02:32 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Lars65 View Post
I'm sorry, but that's pretty weak. Less scoring has nothing to do with it. Football and basketball are scored differently. Basketball doesn't have miniature goalies guarding the basket and goals in the NHL aren't worth two points. You also don't get seven points for a goal and three for hitting the post.
I thought the was quite obvious.


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Old
12-15-2012, 02:46 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
That has been explained and beaten to death. Stop acting like it hasn't.

Reasons why no other sport has this system:

1) It's harder to score in hockey than it is in basketball, football, or baseball.

2) The NHL is the only of the Big 4 leagues that COMPLETELY CHANGES THE RULES OF THE GAME for overtime.

This isn't rocket science...
NHL OT: Decided by "next team scores".
NFL OT: Decided by "next team scores".

CFL and College Football: Decided by a Shootout.
NHL and Soccer post-OT: Decided by a Shootout.

Yes, the NHL is completely different from all leagues.

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Old
12-15-2012, 02:49 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Sanderson View Post
A 3-2-1 point system would probably work better than what the league currently uses, but the complaints about this are way overblown.
I think the only problem with a 3-2-1 system that the NHL might see is people are used to a team getting 70, 80, 100, etc points and what that means about the team in general. Put in a 3 point game all of a sudden a 100 point year is a bad year. It's basically a cosmetic thing. Also with the loser point look at how many teams finish at ".500" hockey in general you have like 5-6 teams a year finish with less then 82 points so it makes it seem like you team is better then they actually are if they one of the ones that do finish .500(which used to actually be a good sign).

All that being said I am all for the 3 point game myself. If a team plays .500 hockey I want them to legitimately get over the half way point they potentially could, not just squeak over it because the league makes rules that award them points for winning a shootout or losing a game.

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12-15-2012, 02:54 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I think the only problem with a 3-2-1 system that the NHL might see is people are used to a team getting 70, 80, 100, etc points and what that means about the team in general. Put in a 3 point game all of a sudden a 100 point year is a bad year. It's basically a cosmetic thing. Also with the loser point look at how many teams finish at ".500" hockey in general you have like 5-6 teams a year finish with less then 82 points so it makes it seem like you team is better then they actually are if they one of the ones that do finish .500(which used to actually be a good sign).

All that being said I am all for the 3 point game myself. If a team plays .500 hockey I want them to legitimately get over the half way point they potentially could, not just squeak over it because the league makes rules that award them points for winning a shootout or losing a game.
The league didn't make rules that award teams points for winning in a shootout, you've always recieved two points for a win. You aren't getting another one because your game happened to need more than just OT.

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12-15-2012, 02:58 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
The league didn't make rules that award teams points for winning in a shootout, you've always recieved two points for a win. You aren't getting another one because your game happened to need more than just OT.
The league made a system that some games are worth 2 points and others are worth 3 points. It's up to the viewer to interprete that how they want. I choose to view it if the team wins in a shootout, the extra point is due to that and if they lose in OT they get the extra point for losing in OT.

In general it's a bad system because all games should be equal(ie either 2 or 3 points). What's to stop the league from saying hey if you score more then 5 goals in an game we'll give you an extra point(win or lose), that way we can have some games worth 2 points and others worth 5 if you factor in all the extra points.

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Old
12-15-2012, 03:00 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
The league made a system that some games are worth 2 points and others are worth 3 points. It's up to the viewer to interprete that how they want. I choose to view it if the team wins in a shootout, the extra point is due to that and if they lose in OT they get the extra point for losing in OT.

In general it's a bad system because all games should be equal(ie either 2 or 3 points)
Easy fix: Drop the loser point.

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12-15-2012, 03:04 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Easy fix: Drop the loser point.
I prefer the 3 point system myself, it makes winning in a shootout less important.

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Old
12-15-2012, 05:58 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
NHL OT: Decided by "next team scores".
NFL OT: Decided by "next team scores".

CFL and College Football: Decided by a Shootout.
NHL and Soccer post-OT: Decided by a Shootout.

Yes, the NHL is completely different from all leagues.
For one soccer doesn't have OT in games that aren't for elimination. There is no OT during league seasons.

But way to completely change what I was talking about...

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