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2012 CBA/Lockout talk, It's not looking good VI

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12-15-2012, 05:00 PM
  #851
MarshmontMcSlewfoot
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Originally Posted by Dellstrom View Post
He already is looked at that way and will continue to be even if there is a season.
I had thought a more reasonable JJ/Buttman could have avoided this lockout by compromising early.

But after seeing the petulant behavior of the players and Fehr I think they would have insisted on the lockout in some way shape or form and regardless of what the owners offered they'd have hesitated on signing and insisted on more.


I was more on the players side early on in this but right now I am 100% with the owners.

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12-15-2012, 05:25 PM
  #852
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armageddon.

forget about 2012-13 and see ya in 2014

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12-15-2012, 05:30 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
I had thought a more reasonable JJ/Buttman could have avoided this lockout by compromising early.

But after seeing the petulant behavior of the players and Fehr I think they would have insisted on the lockout in some way shape or form and regardless of what the owners offered they'd have hesitated on signing and insisted on more.


I was more on the players side early on in this but right now I am 100% with the owners.
The players have made 100% of the concessions that have been proposed thus far.

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12-15-2012, 05:44 PM
  #854
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the PA should smarten up, submit a deal that is 90% - 95% identical to the owners last proposal and get this season going.

They've lost. End of story. They will never be able to recover the money they will lose if this season is cancelled. Fighting over contract length is pathetic it effects almost no one. Take a deal and move on PA, the gm's will get you your money and you can go back to buying expensive cars and living in a fairy land make believe world.


The nhl is a joke

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12-15-2012, 05:59 PM
  #855
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
The players have made 100% of the concessions that have been proposed thus far.

That's the problem... It's an illusion. Fehr is driving the boat to nowhere, and the players are expecting more... more... more...




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12-15-2012, 06:05 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by northeastern View Post
the PA should smarten up, submit a deal that is 90% - 95% identical to the owners last proposal and get this season going.

They've lost. End of story. They will never be able to recover the money they will lose if this season is cancelled. Fighting over contract length is pathetic it effects almost no one. Take a deal and move on PA, the gm's will get you your money and you can go back to buying expensive cars and living in a fairy land make believe world.


The nhl is a joke
i'm very curious to see where the majority of the players stand in the vote.
My guess... they want to play hockey, not going to a war that they know they lost already. Time to cut the losses and go back to cash the millions.

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12-15-2012, 06:06 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by Spooner st View Post
That's the problem... It's an illusion. Fehr is driving the boat to nowhere, and the players are expecting more... more... more...
I don't understand what you mean.

What is an illusion?

The players are getting less....less...less no matter what CBA they sign.

It seems the owners want more....more...more....more...more...more...more

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12-15-2012, 06:11 PM
  #858
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Eric Macramalla ‏@EricOnSportsLaw
Fehr has support of players - they will disclaim interest and they will follow their leader with extensive unparalleled experience in labor


Here we go.... off the cliff...

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12-15-2012, 06:11 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by northeastern View Post
the PA should smarten up, submit a deal that is 90% - 95% identical to the owners last proposal and get this season going.

They've lost. End of story. They will never be able to recover the money they will lose if this season is cancelled. Fighting over contract length is pathetic it effects almost no one. Take a deal and move on PA, the gm's will get you your money and you can go back to buying expensive cars and living in a fairy land make believe world.


The nhl is a joke
You could just as easily use the same arguments to call for the NHL to give in on the last issues.

This court move looks like Fehr manufacturing some leverage. If it goes through he will now have the same trump card Bettman has - his board could scuttle the whole year and turn the league into a total clustercuss. Maybe if ownership sees that as a real option they will have to make these last (and their first real) concessions.

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12-15-2012, 06:29 PM
  #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
https://twitter.com/EricOnSportsLaw/...93986000084992

Eric Macramalla ‏@EricOnSportsLaw
Fehr has support of players - they will disclaim interest and they will follow their leader with extensive unparalleled experience in labor




Here we go.... off the cliff...
So they really are going to drink Jim Jones' kool-aid. Amazing. I wonder if the rest of the Pa is glad about Ference and Co overthrowing the previous regime now.

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12-15-2012, 06:43 PM
  #861
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Why does the expression "killing the goose that laid the golden egg" keep coming to mind? I keep seeing people talk about the players giving everything but when over half your league is losing money the system has to change, so obviouly the employees have to give up some salary or it is over the cliff for everyone.

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12-15-2012, 06:45 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
So they really are going to drink Jim Jones' kool-aid. Amazing. I wonder if the rest of the Pa is glad about Ference and Co overthrowing the previous regime now.
By the way Lou, I have obviously been on the player's side for the most part here, but you and Morris have had the most logical and consistent reasons for not supporting them.

I do question why some of the pro-owner people take such glee in thinking the players are really going to eat it.

Envy?

I mean, I don't have any actual sympathy for the players, nor did I for the owners in 04 when I supported them. And I certainly don't take glee in one group of rich people sticking it to another group.

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12-15-2012, 06:58 PM
  #863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
By the way Lou, I have obviously been on the player's side for the most part here, but you and Morris have had the most logical and consistent reasons for not supporting them.

I do question why some of the pro-owner people take such glee in thinking the players are really going to eat it.

Envy?

I mean, I don't have any actual sympathy for the players, nor did I for the owners in 04 when I supported them. And I certainly don't take glee in one group of rich people sticking it to another group.
Absolutely envy. Example A is our very own Milan Lucic. Everyone loves him when he is overproducing on his entry level deal. When you pay the man people start picking him apart.

I truly feel bad for the players. I think they are getting terrible leadership right now. Anyone who works for a living should. I expected the owners to screw them. I understand the owners concerns but make no mistake they will still take more then they need. I don't not expect Fehr to get them to this very point. If this happens our beloved sport is done as we know it.

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Old
12-15-2012, 07:26 PM
  #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
By the way Lou, I have obviously been on the player's side for the most part here, but you and Morris have had the most logical and consistent reasons for not supporting them.

I do question why some of the pro-owner people take such glee in thinking the players are really going to eat it.

Envy?

I mean, I don't have any actual sympathy for the players, nor did I for the owners in 04 when I supported them. And I certainly don't take glee in one group of rich people sticking it to another group.
Envy doesn't make much sense does it? Wouldn't that envy also exrend to owners who have far far more to.... well, everything? I suppose it is an easy conclusion to come to however. Perhaps those folk just aren't real fans? Another easy conclusion we've seen tossed around. Perhaps it's simply a difference of opinion, although that hardly seems dramatic enough to be plausible.

Food for thought, envy is just as simple a conclusion to come to to explain the folks who are pro player, as most people tend to automatically side with the little guy in these debates regardless of how logical or illogical that POV is. Going against "the man" is often the ingrained response for many. It actually says something that so many aren't automatically siding with the players in this case when it would be so easy to do so. Doubly even as we root for players and not owners in our daily NHL fandom.

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12-15-2012, 07:49 PM
  #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
By the way Lou, I have obviously been on the player's side for the most part here, but you and Morris have had the most logical and consistent reasons for not supporting them.

I do question why some of the pro-owner people take such glee in thinking the players are really going to eat it.

Envy?

I mean, I don't have any actual sympathy for the players, nor did I for the owners in 04 when I supported them. And I certainly don't take glee in one group of rich people sticking it to another group.
Maybe its just playing around with the pro players who take things to seriously...
Or...maybe not. who knows.

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Old
12-15-2012, 08:16 PM
  #866
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If this happens our beloved sport is done as we know it.
Just zhr NHL, Corzporation, Eeel hoecki well sovaivee,

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12-15-2012, 08:58 PM
  #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
https://twitter.com/EricOnSportsLaw/...93986000084992

Eric Macramalla ‏@EricOnSportsLaw
Fehr has support of players - they will disclaim interest and they will follow their leader with extensive unparalleled experience in labor


Here we go.... off the cliff...
just for curiosity I would be very interested in what happens if they miss the season

They'll lose the casual fan and should, and for a long, long time

These two just dont get it.

This is totally different from 2004 and irrepsonsible

They deserve to lose franchises and the players to lose jobs- maybe that will be the good that will come out of this, markets that never should have had teams will not sustain these franchises

Tonight is the first time since this started I have crossed the line to they are not going to play this year and wont be coming back anytime soon next year

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12-15-2012, 09:01 PM
  #868
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Old
12-15-2012, 09:15 PM
  #869
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After everything that has happened in the past day in the news, it should make the players realize a few things and to stop complaining.


either make a deal, or let it go til next year.

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Old
12-15-2012, 09:30 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by Mione134 View Post
After everything that has happened in the past day in the news, it should make the players realize a few things and to stop complaining.


either make a deal, or let it go til next year.
Do you feel the same way about the International Longshoreman Association?

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12-15-2012, 11:55 PM
  #871
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It wouldn't be so bad if they aired the AHL games on tv. I'd be able to follow the p-bruins a lot more.

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12-16-2012, 12:44 AM
  #872
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Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
You could just as easily use the same arguments to call for the NHL to give in on the last issues.

This court move looks like Fehr manufacturing some leverage. If it goes through he will now have the same trump card Bettman has - his board could scuttle the whole year and turn the league into a total clustercuss. Maybe if ownership sees that as a real option they will have to make these last (and their first real) concessions.

Either way they're so painfully close it seems... I just see it that the players are losing a lot more. The owners pockets are deep enough to win a waiting game. they have other businesses flowing money in.

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Old
12-16-2012, 01:29 AM
  #873
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
The players have made 100% of the concessions that have been proposed thus far.


What concessions have the players made? If you think they have made any it because your using the wrong comparable. You judge a CBA against the current CBA's of comparable industries and competitors. So what is better for the NHL in the last players offer than in the CBA's of the NFL and NBA?

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12-16-2012, 03:35 AM
  #874
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chum in water is what this sport has become, on life support; treading water. players are fools, owners are not going any where. regardless how strong the union is.

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12-16-2012, 06:32 AM
  #875
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It wouldn't be so bad if they aired the AHL games on tv. I'd be able to follow the p-bruins a lot more.
I feel the same, but I wonder if JJ still owns a piece of NESN. If he does, he's not about to relieve fan pressure on the process by allowing us to watch hockey. If JJ knew what a puck is, I'd feel okay with this - but I fear he sees it as just another generator of revenue like a hot dog or a cup of over-priced beer.

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