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Tyler Graovac or Erik Haula?

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Old
12-09-2012, 09:39 PM
  #26
Jaykay
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I'm not sure why everyone is convinced that Graovac will be able to play bottom 6. He's big but he plays a skill game and doesn't really use his size at all a la Jason Spezza. Most people who have watched him play regularly in Ottawa have said that he will be top 6 or bust.

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12-09-2012, 09:40 PM
  #27
Dr Jan Itor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beegoalie View Post
So your saying he will be capable of playing a checking role in the NHL??

Because the ONLY way he is playing a top 6 role with the likes of Heatley, Koivu, Coyle, Granlund, Zucker, Phillips, Larsson,Lucia and future FA signings around is if he plays on another team.

He will never play top 6 for the Wild. And I don't think he is capable of being a sandpaper guy in the bottom 6. Even if he develops that part of his game who is he going to beat out? Larsson, Bulmer, Zucker are WAY ahead of him not only in development of everything else but also that grittiness that it takes to be a bottom 6 guy in the NHL.

On top of that he isn't an above average skater like a Darrol Powe, Stephane Veilleux type..are those guys great players? Not really but they can skate which sets them apart from the other checking forwards and gives them a chance to play in the league..

Haula is at best a minor league semi-scorer just like a Kris Foucault type without the grittiness of Foucault even..think Chad Rau.
I think his game is good enough that he could be the 3rd best player on a 2nd line. I just don't see it happening here. However, he would be very valuable as a top 6 call up, assuming he signs here, to which I have my doubts.

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Old
12-09-2012, 10:13 PM
  #28
Beegoalie
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I think his game is good enough that he could be the 3rd best player on a 2nd line. I just don't see it happening here. However, he would be very valuable as a top 6 call up, assuming he signs here, to which I have my doubts.
I have my doubts that your right on that..and for sure it WONT be happening here..were just too deep top 6 wise and he doesn't bring that sandpaper IMO for a tweener top 9 role that a Larsson, Zucker,Bulmer or even Beussieries can bring..

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12-10-2012, 08:39 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beegoalie View Post
I have my doubts that your right on that..and for sure it WONT be happening here..were just too deep top 6 wise and he doesn't bring that sandpaper IMO for a tweener top 9 role that a Larsson, Zucker,Bulmer or even Beussieries can bring..
so, neither for you, i take it? You keep on bringing up grit and sandpaper and from what i understand haula has a lot more of that than Graovac.

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12-10-2012, 10:56 AM
  #30
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Haula. Skill and consistency are there. Graovac has some skill but no consistency and doesn't use his size.

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Old
12-10-2012, 11:48 AM
  #31
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Haula is no Granlund. He's not going to be annointed into the Wild lineup.

He'll have to prove it in Houston. But I don't see any reason why he won't get several camps and several cups of coffee to prove it at some point. Heater, Cully, and Bouchard will all be gone before then. We don't know yet how Phillips will develop. Injuries will happen. Trades will happen (we're still kind of thin on quality d-men prospects). He'll get a chance.

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12-10-2012, 11:55 AM
  #32
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I think Haula has a 15-20% chance of playing in the NHL (at least getting a shot). I think Graovac has a < 5% chance.

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Old
12-10-2012, 01:30 PM
  #33
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Haula for me. He has put up points at every level, outscoring the first round picks on his team(while playing on worse lines).

Graovac is having his coming out party this year, but prior to that he didn't do squat. His points this year could easily be because he is an older player in the league and a huge boy. The size advantage doesnt mean nearly as much in the NHL and AHL as it does in the CHL.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:41 PM
  #34
Victorious Secret
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Really should have made this a poll.

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Old
12-11-2012, 02:18 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
so, neither for you, i take it? You keep on bringing up grit and sandpaper and from what i understand haula has a lot more of that than Graovac.
Both are longshots...were just too deep. Which nobody should be complaining about..I have my doubts Haula signs here with all the players we have..even with the Minny connection. It would be smart for him to go somewhere else if there is interest elsewhere..

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Old
12-12-2012, 04:28 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Beegoalie View Post
Because the ONLY way he is playing a top 6 role with the likes of Heatley, Koivu, Coyle, Granlund, Zucker, Phillips, Larsson,Lucia and future FA signings around is if he plays on another team.
There's the problem. You're locking-in players for a future top-6 that have no business being locked-in. Heatley's time is running out. He's not going to keep a deserving player out of the top-6. And what have the rest (minus Koivu) proven that guarantees them top-6 consideration but not Haula? They're all just prospects like Haula, and one can argue that Haula has a greater likelihood of being a top-6 forward than some of them.

And say Haula isn't a top-6 guy. Well, he's showing a smart, all-around game that can work just fine on the 3rd-line.

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Old
12-16-2012, 12:25 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
And say Haula isn't a top-6 guy. Well, he's showing a smart, all-around game that can work just fine on the 3rd-line.
And from the makeup of a good number of prospects, Minnesota's "third line" shapes up to be a bit of a grinding/scoring line combination. Having guys who can play both roles just increases flexibility within a game.

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12-16-2012, 12:27 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstroundbust View Post
And from the makeup of a good number of prospects, Minnesota's "third line" shapes up to be a bit of a grinding/scoring line combination. Having guys who can play both roles just increases flexibility within a game.
Yep.

I wouldn't mind Bulmer-Larsson-Haula TBH.

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Old
12-16-2012, 12:31 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow View Post
Yep.

I wouldn't mind Bulmer-Larsson-Haula TBH.
Bulmer
Larsson
Coyle
Zucker
Bussieres
Haula
Gilmour
Bertschy
Graovac

All guys who fit the bill.

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Old
12-16-2012, 12:43 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstroundbust View Post
Bulmer
Larsson
Coyle
Zucker
Bussieres
Haula
Gilmour
Bertschy
Graovac

All guys who fit the bill.
Yep.

But then again, we'll also have to take draft year, age and NHL readiness into consideration. Bulmer, Larsson, Coyle and Zucker could step it and contribute now. Haula and Graovac are 1-2 years away, if they ever make it. Bussieres, Gilmour and Bertschy are project picks.

Bertschy, sadly, looks to me like the typical Euro-league star player. His style of play and size is more suited to the big rink and he's been unable to really produce this season. Sure, he was a 6th rounder, so he's not counted on, but out of our prospect pool, I'd say he has the least chance of making it. Boom or bust type of guy.

That being said, he is a nice kid to have in the pipelines. We didn't really risk anything and if he pans out, he could pan out big time. Tremendous upside.

I love it that our biggest problems seems to be the lack of space in our roster. And we're not really that old of a team anyway, so we can count on Koivu, Parise, Brodziak, Setoguchi, Clutterbuck et cetera contributing to our offense moving forward.

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Old
12-16-2012, 12:55 AM
  #41
Randy BoBandy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstroundbust View Post
Bulmer
Larsson
Coyle
Zucker
Bussieres
Haula
Gilmour
Bertschy
Graovac

All guys who fit the bill.
So where are all our high end 1st line prospects? Looks like we have none. Granlund is a second line complimentary piece imo. We are in desperate need of a high-end forward this draft.

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Old
12-16-2012, 01:00 AM
  #42
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our team strength is two-way forwards...that isn't such a bad place. Eddy's strength is offensive forwards and look where they are.

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Old
12-16-2012, 01:14 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
our team strength is two-way forwards...that isn't such a bad place. Eddy's strength is offensive forwards and look where they are.
I agree. But to win we need goals. Hopefully Zucker or Coyle can be that goalscorer at an NHL level out of the current group. Maybe even Lucia.

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Old
12-16-2012, 04:35 AM
  #44
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If everything is done right it looks like Zucker may be able to become a 30+ guy.

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Old
12-16-2012, 10:02 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patp14 View Post
So where are all our high end 1st line prospects? Looks like we have none. Granlund is a second line complimentary piece imo.
1st line players average 50+ points. Think Granlund ain't a top line player? Hell, his equivalency stats from HIFK translated to roughly 48 points.


Quote:
We are in desperate need of a high-end forward this draft.

Who isn't? But having a bevy of forwards who can play Top-9 or Middle-6 roles isn't the worst thing ever.

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Old
12-16-2012, 12:02 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by firstroundbust View Post
1st line players average 50+ points. Think Granlund ain't a top line player? Hell, his equivalency stats from HIFK translated to roughly 48 points.
What are you talking about equivalency stats from FEL translated. That is just ridiculous 50 points in the NHL is way different than whatever Granlund scored in the FEL. From what I have seen this year he seems like a PP specialist. He isn't dominate at even strength at all and most of the time he isn't even noticeable. I think the lack of space on the north american rinks is giving him trouble. I haven't looked at his stats on PP vs. Even strength, my analysis is just coming off of watching games.

Would you say he is going to be a better player than Havlat? A complimentary player. I'm talking about on the ice. I just don't see it in his game. Granlund is a good player but a 2nd line player on a great team.

Way off topic sorry

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Old
12-16-2012, 03:14 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Patp14 View Post
What are you talking about equivalency stats from FEL translated. That is just ridiculous 50 points in the NHL is way different than whatever Granlund scored in the FEL. From what I have seen this year he seems like a PP specialist. He isn't dominate at even strength at all and most of the time he isn't even noticeable. I think the lack of space on the north american rinks is giving him trouble. I haven't looked at his stats on PP vs. Even strength, my analysis is just coming off of watching games.

Would you say he is going to be a better player than Havlat? A complimentary player. I'm talking about on the ice. I just don't see it in his game. Granlund is a good player but a 2nd line player on a great team.

Way off topic sorry
He played 12 games before injury and 5 games after. If you want to worry about complete lack of first-line prospects based on that sample size, then go ahead. Besides, I wouldn't mind an over 0.8 career PPG player who nets a couple of PPG seasons here and there.

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Old
12-17-2012, 10:15 AM
  #48
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Granlund and Zucker are looking like top line players as rookies in the AHL.

I don't see Bulmer being a top nine player in the NHL. He'll be lucky to even be a regular NHL'er.

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12-17-2012, 10:53 AM
  #49
rynryn
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Bulmer isn't going to be a scoring forward anywhere, and i never thought he would be; he still can make it in the NHL though as a third liner. He looked a lot better in the NHL than he does in the AHL, though he had his moments with Houston already where he was playing his game and getting things done with hits and general mayhem. He'll be the guy leveling RNH so a guy like Hall has to step in and take a penalty to stand up for him. Get the right linemates around him and he can be Ott.

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Old
12-17-2012, 11:05 AM
  #50
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Lol anyone saying Granlund won't develop into a 1st line player is out of their mind. If their is a prospect in the NHL who has 1st line capabilities, its Granlund. He beasted it up as a teen in a men's league in Finland for years. Was absolutely electric. He's won multiple awards in International tournaments and the FEL. Was leading the AHL in scoring as a rookie playing his first North Ameircan hockey until he was injured. Shook the rust off in his first few games back after a month off and was looking like his old self last night buzzing against OKC.

Not saying he's a 100% first liner. But he is one of the elite prospects in hockey. To say he's 2nd line material at best is just ignorant.

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