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Ownership Cluster**** Thread: NHL and GJ, Put Up or Shut Up!

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Old
12-12-2012, 03:14 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by MP View Post
Relocation would add tens of millions of dollars to the cost of owning the team. Surely you haven't forgotten the (as I recall) $60 million TNSE paid to take the Thrashers to Winnipeg? Jamison's group would be on the hook for at least that much. It makes a huge difference whether or not the lease gets done. Keep yer britches on.
I haven't forgotten. Just like how I haven't forgotten that relocation of a team doesn't always mean a change of owners. The Bidwell Family has owned the Arizona Cardinals going all the way back to the days when the Cardinals were in Chicago. I haven't forgotten either that Jerry Reinsdorf was asking for a out clause after 5 years if the team didn't turn a profit. In the outclause, Reinsdorf could do the following:
He could sell the team to a local owner.
Sell the team to another owner for relocation.
Move the team to another city while he is still the owner.

Of course these actions he would need league approval but isn't tied down to the city from making such moves either.

I haven't forgotten either that relocation of a team doesn't always mean the owner doesn't make a profit. Hell, given the mess the team is in the NHL will more than likely profit off the Coyotes getting relocatated if the a local owner can't be established.


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12-12-2012, 03:28 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
Hey Greg

Less talk and more buying the team now. Put up or shut up!!!


I understand the sentiment AP..... but everyone has griped about him being so quiet. Now you gripe because he gives what's been a rare interview???


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12-12-2012, 03:28 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
Yet what is so funny is how the majority here all thought Doan was gone for good as long as there was no owner and Z would never return to Phoenix as long as there was no owner. My my that what happens in the real world and what is talked about in a message board is not always the same.
Some people thought Doan would be gone but by no means was it the majority, as for Z, he didn't come back on his own he was traded. No one likes a smug attitude much less when you're not even correct.

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12-12-2012, 03:51 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
The lease part is also unacceptable excuse as well seeing that Jamison was looking to buy the team at one point and then enter into talks with the city only in turn to relocate the team if a new lease didn't come into play or can't re-up on the yearly deal like the league has done the past few seasons.
You're assuming everything we've heard since Jamison came on the scene is true. It isn't.

It would be suicidal for a business of any size -- especially one like an NHL team -- to complete a purchase without knowing if it can secure the only location and/or building it requires to do business. Where we are in the process makes perfect sense.

I'm confident once the 30 days are reached and the lease can then be signed, the sale will close quickly.

Patience and tolerance, AP.

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12-12-2012, 04:01 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
I haven't forgotten. Just like how I haven't forgotten that relocation of a team doesn't always mean a change of owners.
What I'm saying is, a relocation fee would dramatically increase the total cost of ownership. Jamison's group may have the funding and the will to operate the team in Glendale, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they have the money or the inclination to buy and relocate. Perhaps one or more of his partners would prefer to opt out entirely rather than deal with relocation costs. Or there may be investors who would pull out if the lease is held up again, regardless of the reason.

Come to think of it, you could argue that it would be irresponsible for Jamison to sign anything right now.

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12-12-2012, 04:32 PM
  #681
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I am so glad Jerry Reinsdorf didn't purchase the team, with that five year out clause and a lost of this season, he could/ would be on schedule (theoretically) to move the team after next season.

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12-12-2012, 11:57 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by MP View Post

Come to think of it, you could argue that it would be irresponsible for Jamison to sign anything right now.
ATM, there ain't no team! Just a lock for the front door that he is not allowed to open until management and the union can get some understanding...

When they finally sign the CBA, and Jamison takes over, there will be talk about the league waiting for the new ownership before they agree to the new contract...

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12-13-2012, 01:41 PM
  #683
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Well it looks like poor ol Ken just wasted the first 2 weeks.

Quote:
After a review of the above-referenced application, it appears that the Application for Referendum Petition Serial Number filed by BTS (Back to Sanity) on November 29, 2012 is not complete. A complete application is required before signatures may be collected on a referendum petition.
Letter from the City Clerk: http://glendalefirst.org/wp-content/...Sanity-ltr.pdf

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12-13-2012, 01:49 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
Well it looks like poor ol Ken just wasted the first 2 weeks.

Quote:
After a review of the above-referenced application, it appears that the Application for Referendum Petition Serial Number filed by BTS (Back to Sanity) on November 29, 2012 is not complete. A complete application is required before signatures may be collected on a referendum petition.

Letter from the City Clerk: http://glendalefirst.org/wp-content/...Sanity-ltr.pdf
I almost feel bad for him. I never that he had a prayer of collecting the necessary number, but at least he could've given it his last best shot. The first effort essentially produced ZERO signatures, if I recall correctly, due to improper filing and now it looks like he's got ZERO half way through his newest effort. Yeesh.

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12-13-2012, 02:03 PM
  #685
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I almost feel bad for him.
I don't. 1 deranged old man should not be able to harpoon a deal for 30 days when there is a complete lack of interest from the general public. He's abusing the system just because he can.

Either way, it won't matter if Jamison can't close the deal. Clocks ticking.

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12-13-2012, 02:09 PM
  #686
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Looking at the last Forbes NHL values, I see they projected the Coyotes as taking in $83M in revenues last year. It is still next to last in the rankings but $2M away from the next spots up. The next team up in the rankings to not record a loss is the Colorado Avalanche. They were 22nd in the revenue rankings with $91M and its shows a $4.5M operating income.

Some random thoughts in my head but by removing this cloud of uncertainty, I bet that amount could be achieved in a short amount of time with the expectations of expenses decreasing.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations...n:desc_search:

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12-13-2012, 02:16 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
Either way, it won't matter if Jamison can't close the deal. Clocks ticking.
I am still sticking to this information because I havent heard otherwise:

Quote:
Sunnucks spoke with two sources claiming to have knowledge of the ongoing Coyotes ownership saga, sources who say Jamison now has the necessary investors and partners in place to keep the team in Glendale.
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...back-on-track/

If I wake up on January 31st and notice it hasn't been finalized yet then I will worry. I imagine the group is large and securing such a high-dollar amount into escrow and getting the NHL to vote on it during this time of year isn't an easy process.

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12-15-2012, 06:02 PM
  #688
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Is it possible that Jamison is waiting for the lockout to end before he closes?

My theory is that since there is a clause in the lease agreement that would require Jamison to pay like $50,000(?) for every game missed, do you think Jamison is trying to avoid those payments by not signing the agreement just yet. Holding out to wait and see if the league and the NHLPA can get the season going before he signs and has to cover those lost games?

Just a thought.... dont know if it has been mentioned already in these endless pages of posts haha

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12-16-2012, 01:42 AM
  #689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZcoyotes33 View Post
Is it possible that Jamison is waiting for the lockout to end before he closes?

My theory is that since there is a clause in the lease agreement that would require Jamison to pay like $50,000(?) for every game missed, do you think Jamison is trying to avoid those payments by not signing the agreement just yet. Holding out to wait and see if the league and the NHLPA can get the season going before he signs and has to cover those lost games?

Just a thought.... dont know if it has been mentioned already in these endless pages of posts haha
I would have to agree that what you're saying is right on the money. I think he is also waiting to see if the referendum effort will be successful, which it most likely will not be. Once the referendum is dead I think Jamison will wait as long as possible to buy the team before the Jan. 31 deadline if the lockout is still going on.

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12-16-2012, 04:03 AM
  #690
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Originally Posted by Captain Coyote 96 View Post
I would have to agree that what you're saying is right on the money. I think he is also waiting to see if the referendum effort will be successful, which it most likely will not be. Once the referendum is dead I think Jamison will wait as long as possible to buy the team before the Jan. 31 deadline if the lockout is still going on.
If he's relying on the lockout to be over to buy the team even if the City is ready to sign the lease right away after the 30 days have past, then we not only have a huge problem but also shows more that Jamison is full of ****. Like I said before, if your going to own the a team, you do it during the lockout time as well, just like the other 29 owner are. Jerry Reinsdorf wouldn't have a problem owning the Coyotes during the lockout(if he became the owner of course) seeing that he is the owner of the Chicago Bulls during the last lockout the NBA had.


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12-16-2012, 05:02 AM
  #691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP View Post
If he's relying on the lockout to be over to buy the team even if the City is ready to sign the lease right away after the 30 days have past, then we not only have a huge problem but also shows more that Jamison is full of ****. Like I said before, if your going to own the a team, you do it during the lockout time as well, just like the other 29 owner are. Jerry Reinsdorf wouldn't have a problem owning the Coyotes during the lockout(if he became the owner of course) seeing that he is the owner of the Chicago Bulls during the last lockout the NBA had.
Jamison needs to complete the sale by January 31st, there's really nothing more to it.

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12-16-2012, 10:26 AM
  #692
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Jamison needs to complete the sale by January 31st, there's really nothing more to it.
So like, on January 2nd, which is like, three days from being another two weeks!... we'll be able to say in connection with the sale to GJ, that it's Weeks, not Months! for the last time???



it we get into another thread before the sale closes, maybe it should be

Ownership Cluster**** Thread: Weeks, Not Months

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Old
12-16-2012, 01:29 PM
  #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZcoyotes33 View Post
Is it possible that Jamison is waiting for the lockout to end before he closes?

My theory is that since there is a clause in the lease agreement that would require Jamison to pay like $50,000(?) for every game missed, do you think Jamison is trying to avoid those payments by not signing the agreement just yet. Holding out to wait and see if the league and the NHLPA can get the season going before he signs and has to cover those lost games?

Just a thought.... dont know if it has been mentioned already in these endless pages of posts haha
Has Jamison even had an opportunity to sign the agreement yet? Does anyone know for certain that he hasn't signed the agreement..

Don't know if that has been mentioned already in these endless pages of baseless conspiracy theories....lol.

Ah, who cares...let's just run with the conspiracies and use them to explain why Jamison is full of ****...lmao.

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12-16-2012, 02:27 PM
  #694
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Originally Posted by Devils Advocate View Post
Has Jamison even had an opportunity to sign the agreement yet? Does anyone know for certain that he hasn't signed the agreement..
I'm going to play Devils Advovate on this.

Has Jamison completed the sale of the team to the NHL yet? Does anyone know for certain that he has or hasn't? Does anyone have the same degree of confidence that he will complete the sale of the team as they did with JR, IE, and MH? Does anyone believe that Glendale doesn't care for the Coyotes or the fans of the team? Does anyone mistake "conspiracy throries" with open-mindedness and objectivity? Does anyone need a brush-up on the history of events since Jerry Moyes gave back the keys? By brush up, I don't mean re-write history either.

Ah who cares, I'll just let these ideas that the league is without fault for this cluster**** and gets a free pass and it's all Glendale's fault, even for how the team is operated by the private sector only.


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12-16-2012, 06:43 PM
  #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Advocate View Post
Has Jamison even had an opportunity to sign the agreement yet? Does anyone know for certain that he hasn't signed the agreement..

Don't know if that has been mentioned already in these endless pages of baseless conspiracy theories....lol.

Ah, who cares...let's just run with the conspiracies and use them to explain why Jamison is full of ****...lmao.

He can't sign it until the ordinance's 30-day window passes on 12/27 and becomes active.... period.

He has to have ownership of the franchise before he can sign the AMF.

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12-17-2012, 12:42 PM
  #696
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
Looking at the last Forbes NHL values, I see they projected the Coyotes as taking in $83M in revenues last year. It is still next to last in the rankings but $2M away from the next spots up. The next team up in the rankings to not record a loss is the Colorado Avalanche. They were 22nd in the revenue rankings with $91M and its shows a $4.5M operating income.

Some random thoughts in my head but by removing this cloud of uncertainty, I bet that amount could be achieved in a short amount of time with the expectations of expenses decreasing.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations...n:desc_search:
Do the Forbes numbers include play-off revenue? The Yotes had 7 or 8 sold out playoff games which should have added at least 1M per game.

Colorado had zero play-off revenue.

Your point is understood but the revenue picture would look mighty different if the Yotes were a non-playoff team, assuming of course play-off revenue is part of the Forbes numbers.

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12-20-2012, 09:33 AM
  #697
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We are one week away from the thirty day deadline on the dead in the water, hopeless referendum effort.

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12-20-2012, 03:22 PM
  #698
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My question is if he were going to buy the team, why was there not an express condition for the closing to occur before the parties contractual duties are enforced.

This would be straight up condition for an event, not certain to occur, whose occurence musy happen before duties must be performed.

Essentially like a mortgage clause in real estate sale, must make good faith efforts to make it happen.

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12-21-2012, 07:44 AM
  #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZcoyotes33 View Post
Is it possible that Jamison is waiting for the lockout to end before he closes?

My theory is that since there is a clause in the lease agreement that would require Jamison to pay like $50,000(?) for every game missed, do you think Jamison is trying to avoid those payments by not signing the agreement just yet. Holding out to wait and see if the league and the NHLPA can get the season going before he signs and has to cover those lost games?

Just a thought.... dont know if it has been mentioned already in these endless pages of posts haha
I don't normally hang out here but as, awfulwaffle passed this theory along to the thread on the BOH board, I felt compelled to come over here and set the record straight. There is NO $60,000/game penalty for this season:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Approved Lease 8.3.1(b)
(b) In the event that the Arena Manager and Team Owner do not play 40 Regular Season Games, the Arena Manager and Team Owner, jointly or severally, will pay to the City an amount equal to $60,000 multiplied by a number equal to the Regular Season Games required by this Section less the Regular Season Games actually played; provided however, this Section 8.3.1(b) will not be applicable to the 2012-13 NHL season.
(source)

The $25,000/year penalty for insufficient non-hockey events doesn't apply for 2012-13 either.

Strictly looking at the lease, Jamison has an incentive to close as early as he can, because this year's $11 million payment is prorated by the # of days until June 30 2013 divided by 365, i.e. if he closes on Jan 1 the AMF is $5.5 million.

IMO, the most plausible view is that Jamison's investors are waiting for the lockout to end to see what type of business environment they would be working in if they closed, i.e. revenue sharing, salary floor/cap, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manisback121
My question is if he were going to buy the team, why was there not an express condition for the closing to occur before the parties contractual duties are enforced.

This would be straight up condition for an event, not certain to occur, whose occurence musy happen before duties must be performed.
Those conditions are already there, see article 17 of the lease (link above). Regardless of the date on which he signs the lease, Jamison has to buy the team and get sufficient financing (in the eyes of the NHL) for closing on the lease to happen.

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12-21-2012, 09:48 AM
  #700
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Quote:
received a call from Glendale's Interim City Manager Horatio Skeete. He has just signed the docs for the lease mgmt agree w Hockey Ptnrs.
Quote:
Next Step: docs become effective when NHL and Hockey Partners complete the sale of the Coyotes.


Last edited by Naurutger: 12-21-2012 at 09:52 AM. Reason: Updates
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