Jagr had 60 or more assists in a season 8 times, so him.
Not to mention 2 seasons with 80 assists or more. He had 87 in 1995-96 to break the NHL record for most assists in a season by a European as well as a Winger (breaking Bossy's record).
His other came when he had 83 in 1998-99 to lead the league (16 more than? Forsberg).
Then players like Sakic, Yzerman, Thornton, Leetch, Gilmour, Clarke, Lafontaine, Stastny, Beliveau, follow.
Crosby would be closer to Sedin than he is to Jagr and Forsberg. In fact Crosby could probably be slotted at number 20 behind all the players I named above.
Currently, I would say that Crosby in the best, only because Jagr is 40 and Forsberg is out of shape
Really, you gotta go with Jagr. He's a good level above the others. Yes, Crosby could catch him potentially, but it would take a lot of good seasons from here on out.
EDIT: For the lazy, Crosby is 5th all time in the NHL in assists per game through 7 seasons (behing Gretzky, Lemieux, Stastny, Orr), Forsberg is 7th, Jagr is 29th. Of course, you could make the argument that Jagr's remarkable consistency would place him the highest, but there is certainly an argument for Crosby.
All 3 seen the ice at an elite level, but in different ways.
Jagr was the most effective playmaker, no question. The biggest reason for that was because he was the best puck possession player of these 3. Jagr may very well be the best puck possession player of all time. When you have the ability to hold on to the puck longer, it opens things up. All elite playmakers are great puck possession players, you pretty much have to be, but Jagr's ability to use his backside was just unparalleled.
Forsberg was my favorite playmaker of these 3. He seen the ice better than most. He had the uncanny ability to slow the game down when he had the puck, which was a treat to watch. He made the game look different every time he touched the puck.
Crosby does most of his playmaking in high speed in comparison. Also fun to watch and clearly effective, I just personally enjoyed watching the game picked apart the way Forsberg did more.
Then players like Sakic, Yzerman, Thornton, Leetch, Gilmour, Clarke, Lafontaine, Stastny, Beliveau, follow.
Crosby would be closer to Sedin than he is to Jagr and Forsberg. In fact Crosby could probably be slotted at number 20 behind all the players I named above.
Wow... you are REALLY underrating Crosby. Based purely on skill level and not accomplishments, he's definitely a top ten playmaker of all time. Not sure how you can justify putting guys like Sakic, Yzerman, Gilmour, Statsny, etc. ahead of him.
Wow... you are REALLY underrating Crosby. Based purely on skill level and not accomplishments, he's definitely a top ten playmaker of all time. Not sure how you can justify putting guys like Sakic, Yzerman, Gilmour, Statsny, etc. ahead of him.
As far as this poll goes:
1. Jagr
2. Crosby
3. Forsberg
You have Jagr number one, but you voted for Crosby, which is it?
Then players like Sakic, Yzerman, Thornton, Leetch, Gilmour, Clarke, Lafontaine, Stastny, Beliveau, follow.
Crosby would be closer to Sedin than he is to Jagr and Forsberg. In fact Crosby could probably be slotted at number 20 behind all the players I named above.
Lol buddy srry you need to get out of the past... Henrik Sedin is a top 10 playmaker all time, with Thornton, and Crosby (at this point in time) maybe a bit below them...
Howe and Lafluer aren't top 10 and imo Francis is debatable aswell
EDIT: For the lazy, Crosby is 5th all time in the NHL in assists per game through 7 seasons (behing Gretzky, Lemieux, Stastny, Orr), Forsberg is 7th, Jagr is 29th. Of course, you could make the argument that Jagr's remarkable consistency would place him the highest, but there is certainly an argument for Crosby.
Exactly through 7 seasons.
We all know what playing longer does do your per game averages.
In fact we don't need to look further than Jagr himself. In his first 806 games (the full 11 seasons he played in Pittsburgh) he had 640 assists which is an APG of 0.79. This was of course his prime.
His APG dropped as he continued to play. If by the time Crosby has played over 1000 games and his APG is still higher than Jagr's then I will say he's pretty good.
Put Crosby in the exact same time frame as Jagr, and I'm certain he would outproduce him.
Crosby is just the biggest try-hard to ever play the game... always will be the best when he's on his game
.... and Jagr was bigger, stronger, more skilled and just overall more talented.
Sure scoring has gone done a bit in the last few years, but Jagr did most of his damage when stick obstructions were seldom called.
The period between 1997-98 and 2000-01 when Jagr won 4 of his 5 Art Ross trophies saw Jagr lead the league in assists 3 times and would have most likely led the league a 4th time had he played more than 63 games (where he still had 54 assists to finish 3rd yet). That same period's scoring was also lower scoring than at any time post-lockout.
Jagr used to have 2 6'6, 240 lbs defensemen hanging on him and yet he made players look foolish consistently.
Lol buddy srry you need to get out of the past... Henrik Sedin is a top 10 playmaker all time, with Thornton, and Crosby (at this point in time) maybe a bit below them...
Howe and Lafluer aren't top 10 and imo Francis is debatable aswell
I feel sorry for you. I bet you think the NHL started in 2005 don't you?
Thornton, Crosby and Sedin are not top 10 playmakers and outside of Crosby who can still pick up his pace, Sedin and Thornton have already peaked and are on the downsides of their careers.
It's not called living in the past. It's called having a perspective on the history of the NHL.
Give players of the past the same kind of equipment and training methods as today's players and I think the results for the players in the past might be even more impressive.
Howe and Lafleur are most definitely better playmakers than any of the current set of NHL players. Howe was a Right Wing that led the league in assits countless times. Lafleur did the same playing an era with guys like Dionne, Trottier, Orr, Clarke.
Jagr was another winger that led the league in assists countless times. Find me a Winger nowadays that can claim to the be the league's best playmaker.
I'll say this, if Jagr was still in his prime (not this 40 year old version of him), he'd be skating circles around the rest of the NHL. He was Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby into one offensively.
If you think Crosby and Malkin are great puck possession players, then just go look at Jagr. If you think Ovechkin is an explosive skater with a great shot, have a look at Jagr's clips from his glory days.
As for stickhandling and passing, forget about it.
Last edited by livewell68: 12-16-2012 at 08:36 AM.
I feel sorry for you. I bet you think the NHL started in 2005 don't you?
Thornton, Crosby and Sedin are not top 10 playmakers and outside of Crosby who can still pick up his pace, Sedin and Thornton have already peaked and are on the downsides of their careers.
It's not called living in the past. It's called having a perspective on the history of the NHL.
Give players of the past the same kind of equipment and training methods as today's players and I think the results for the players in the past might be even more impressive.
Howe and Lafleur are most definitely better playmakers than any of the current set of NHL players. Howe was a Right Wing that led the league in assits countless times. Lafleur did the same playing an era with guys like Dionne, Trottier, Orr, Clarke.
Jagr was another winger that led the league in assists countless times. Find me a Winger nowadays that can claim to the be the league's best playmaker.
I'll say this, if Jagr was still in his prime (not this 40 year old version of him), he'd be skating circles around the rest of the NHL. He was Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby into one offensively.
If you think Crosby and Malkin are great puck possession players, then just go look at Jagr. If you think Ovechkin is an explosive skater with a great shot, have a look at Jagr's clips from his glory days.
As for stickhandling and passing, forget about it.
it would be nice to be on the downside of a career and still be top 5 in assists for thornton and h.sedin
