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Old
12-15-2012, 09:20 PM
  #251
Paralyzer008
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So....Bozak, Frattin, Reimer and a 3rd rounder in 2013 for Luongo and Raymond? Overpay? I dunno I haven't dug into this in a while

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12-15-2012, 10:57 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
So....Bozak, Frattin, Reimer and a 3rd rounder in 2013 for Luongo and Raymond? Overpay? I dunno I haven't dug into this in a while
As a Canucks fan I wouldn't do it. AINEC in my mind.

Kadri + Colborne/Ashton/Biggs/Frattin + 1st + 2nd is what I'm holding out for.

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12-15-2012, 11:13 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
So....Bozak, Frattin, Reimer and a 3rd rounder in 2013 for Luongo and Raymond? Overpay? I dunno I haven't dug into this in a while
Add Kadri or add a 1st and I'd seriously consider it.

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12-16-2012, 06:27 AM
  #254
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Add Kadri or add a 1st and I'd seriously consider it.
I'll never understand the hype around Luongo. Never. IMO, if he's even a #1 goalie in the league, it's definitely at the low end of the top 30.

So he won a gold medal, but he did it with the best D in the world in front of him and, as I recall, he wasn't exactly a 'wall' in that tournament. This over-hyped, over-paid, over-rated goalie is apparently, according to many comments on these threads, worth first round picks and/or top prospects and/or key roster players. Really? Did he not lose his #1 position in vancouver to a recent Ivy League grad. He has a history of letting in stinkers at critical times, yet he's still treated and talked about like the second coming of goaltenders.

I would suggest that before they eat his millstone of a contract, most, if not all of the other 29 GMs in the league, would want him packaged with a top prospect or pick before they even think of giving anything in return. Apparently Fla refused to do a deal for him straight up for Nick Bjugstad, a 20 year old 6'6" winger with tons of potential. And so they should, as it's massive overpayment. If he (and his contract) brings the Nucks anything more than a 2nd from a top 15 team, it'll be an overpayment IMO.


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 12-16-2012 at 01:55 PM.
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12-16-2012, 10:07 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
So....Bozak, Frattin, Reimer and a 3rd rounder in 2013 for Luongo and Raymond? Overpay? I dunno I haven't dug into this in a while
Take out Frattin and Raymond and that works.

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12-16-2012, 10:26 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Take out Frattin and Raymond and that works.
Here's a better idea, take out Luongo and Raymond.

Go find another team to pillage.

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12-16-2012, 10:26 AM
  #257
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I don't know why I even bother, but here we go...

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I'll never understand the hype around Luongo. Never. IMO, if he's even a #1 goalie in the league, it's definitely at the low end of the top 30.
So apparently the goalie who was nominated for Vezina the previous year is now barely a starter? Please. Anyone who thinks that Luongo is outside even the top-10 is lying to themselves.

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So he won a gold medal, but he did it with the best D in the world in front of him and, as I recall, he wasn't exactly a 'wall' in that tournament.
Yeah, because so many goalies have won the Olympic gold with a bad defense in front of them, right?


Quote:
This over-hyped, over-paid, over-rated goalie is apparently, according to many comments on these threads, worth first round picks and/or top prospects and/or key roster players. Really? Did he not lose his #1 position in Vancouver to a recent Ivy League grad. He has a history of letting in stinkers at critical times, yet he's still treated and talked about like the second coming of goaltenders.

Well, if you assume that he's "barely a starter", then yes he'd be overpaid and overhyped. But he is one of the top goaltenders in the league. He's being traded because we have a younger goaltender who currently holds the record for the highest sv% of any goalie over 68 games ever. We can afford to trade one if it means we can address some of our needs up front. He's worth a lot because he might become the best player on many teams he might be traded to.

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I would suggest that before they eat his millstone of a contract, most, if not all of the other 29 GMs in the league, would want him packaged with a top prospect or pick before they even think of giving anything in return.
Before you call his contract a millstone, I suggest you look at how it's structured and see all the out-clauses that show how it's a cap-circumvention contract. There's a reason why GMs give them out to star players like Kovalchuk, Hossa, etc. Hint: It's not because they're all stupid.

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Apparently Fla refused to do a deal for him straight up for Nick Bjugstad, a 20 year old 6'6" winger with tons of potential. And so they should, as it's massive overpayment. If he (and his contract) brings the Nucks anything more than a 2nd from a top 15 team, it'll be an overpayment IMO.
That's untrue. Florida was reported to be unwilling to deal Bjugstad in a package for Luongo, but that doesn't mean Bjugstad has more value than Luongo. Does Couturier have more value than Weber? Does Kreider have more value than Nash? Just because a GM is unwilling to include a good young player(especially from an area of weakness on the roster, as Bjugstad is for Florida) from likely the least interested team that Luongo might end up with due to them having Markstrom, doesn't meaan Luongo has less value than him.


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 12-16-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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Old
12-16-2012, 11:20 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by OrrCam View Post
I'll never understand the hype around Luongo. Never. IMO, if he's even a #1 goalie in the league, it's definitely at the low end of the top 30.

So he won a gold medal, but he did it with the best D in the world in front of him and, as I recall, he wasn't exactly a 'wall' in that tournament. This over-hyped, over-paid, over-rated goalie is apparently, according to many comments on these threads, worth first round picks and/or top prospects and/or key roster players. Really? Did he not lose his #1 position in Blandcouver to a recent Ivy League grad. He has a history of letting in stinkers at critical times, yet he's still treated and talked about like the second coming of goaltenders.

I would suggest that before they eat his millstone of a contract, most, if not all of the other 29 GMs in the league, would want him packaged with a top prospect or pick before they even think of giving anything in return. Apparently Fla refused to do a deal for him straight up for Nick Bjugstad, a 20 year old 6'6" winger with tons of potential. And so they should, as it's massive overpayment. If he (and his contract) brings the Nucks anything more than a 2nd from a top 15 team, it'll be an overpayment IMO.
That is because you do not understand the position of goaltender nor the game of Hockey. This does not make Luongo a poor goalie. It simply makes you a terrible judge of talent.

The only goalie who played better than Luongo during the Olympics was Miller. As far as the Gold Medal game goes they played about equal. Exception being Luongo made the save to continue the game while Miller let in a softie to lose the tourny for the USA. Fact is Luongo is part of a team. Teams win or lose. Luongo won. Period. Again, you are displaying nothing but a lack of knowledge concerning Hockey.

Everything else you type becomes irrelevant noise due to the fact you have shown to know little to nothing about the game itself.

My apologies if this comes across as a bit of an attack. I cannot think of a more polite way to say that you have no idea what you are talking about and no one will take you seriously.


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 12-16-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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Old
12-16-2012, 11:43 AM
  #259
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I would prefer Markstrom to Luongo; as the Vancouver fans are stating Florida would sign another starter to a decade long contract; over him. What would Florida want for Markstrom? I imagine less than Luongo; as apparently Luongo is more valuable.

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12-16-2012, 11:54 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by OrrCam View Post
I'll never understand the hype around Luongo. Never. IMO, if he's even a #1 goalie in the league, it's definitely at the low end of the top 30.

So he won a gold medal, but he did it with the best D in the world in front of him and, as I recall, he wasn't exactly a 'wall' in that tournament. This over-hyped, over-paid, over-rated goalie is apparently, according to many comments on these threads, worth first round picks and/or top prospects and/or key roster players. Really? Did he not lose his #1 position in Vancouver to a recent Ivy League grad. He has a history of letting in stinkers at critical times, yet he's still treated and talked about like the second coming of goaltenders.

I would suggest that before they eat his millstone of a contract, most, if not all of the other 29 GMs in the league, would want him packaged with a top prospect or pick before they even think of giving anything in return. Apparently Fla refused to do a deal for him straight up for Nick Bjugstad, a 20 year old 6'6" winger with tons of potential. And so they should, as it's massive overpayment. If he (and his contract) brings the Nucks anything more than a 2nd from a top 15 team, it'll be an overpayment IMO.
im aware im getting trolled here, but oh well. Luongo is on pace to finish 3rd at worst, and likely 2nd in all time NHL wins. He's played 700+ games, and has a career .919 sv%. the only other goalie to do that is Hasek. Every year of his life he's been elite. Thats what makes him different than other goalies like Miller ect. They have good years and mediocre years. Luongos mediocre years are still elite. Go look at his sv%. he's one of the best ever at his position, due to consistency. Look at the Vancouver franchise during his reign. Its no coincidence that all those players had a chance to develop into a winning unit.


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 12-16-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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Old
12-16-2012, 01:44 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
So....Bozak, Frattin, Reimer and a 3rd rounder in 2013 for Luongo and Raymond? Overpay? I dunno I haven't dug into this in a while
Ummm that's not anywhere close. Why do people think that Luongo will be dealt to Toronto for scraps?

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Old
12-16-2012, 01:48 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrCam View Post
So he won a gold medal, but he did it with the best D in the world in front of him and, as I recall, he wasn't exactly a 'wall' in that tournament. This over-hyped, over-paid, over-rated goalie is apparently, according to many comments on these threads, worth first round picks and/or top prospects and/or key roster players. Really? Did he not lose his #1 position in Vancouver to a recent Ivy League grad. He has a history of letting in stinkers at critical times, yet he's still treated and talked about like the second coming of goaltenders.
So if Canada's defense was so stacked and Luongo really isn't that talented, why did Brodeur lose against the same American team that Luongo beat, both playing behind Canada's amazing defense?


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 12-16-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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12-16-2012, 01:55 PM
  #263
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Here's a better idea, take out Luongo and Raymond.

Go find another team to pillage.
Good luck finding another team to unload Luongo and that god awful contract.

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12-16-2012, 02:05 PM
  #264
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So if Canada's defense was so stacked and Luongo really isn't that talented, why did Brodeur lose against the same American team that Luongo beat, both playing behind Canada's amazing defense?
because in their educated hockey opinion, brodeur was old and overrated. Reimer should be given the chance! he has the skill and pedigree!

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12-16-2012, 02:06 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Leafsfan3 View Post
Good luck finding another team to unload Luongo and that god awful contract.
Good luck finding a goalie that wants to go to your god awful team.

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12-16-2012, 02:07 PM
  #266
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Actually the contract is so good that the NHL has said that they will do anything and everything to insure that these type of deals who circumvent the cap giving the team with the deal an unfair advantage, whether it is a wealthy team paying above the cap hit to get an elite player at a low caphit or a less wealthy team paying a fraction of what the actual cap hit is and making it easier to get to the cap floor.

Hope that clears up your confusion.

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12-16-2012, 02:11 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Actually the contract is so good that the NHL has said that they will do anything and everything to insure that these type of deals who circumvent the cap giving the team with the deal an unfair advantage, whether it is a wealthy team paying above the cap hit to get an elite player at a low caphit or a less wealthy team paying a fraction of what the actual cap hit is and making it easier to get to the cap floor.

Hope that clears up your confusion.
just notice that the people calling his contract terrible are from teams that never even make the playoffs, and have at most 1 semi elite talent, its not their fault they cant judge talent, they dont watch it on a nightly basis.

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12-16-2012, 05:00 PM
  #268
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Even though OrrCam is overstating it, the evidence remains, there is no market for Luongo. If there was, he'd be gone, right? The thing is, the player and the contract are two separate entities in the cap era. The CBA uncertainty makes contracts like Luongo's immoveable, no matter who the player is.

I am continuously assured the Cancuks are in "win now mode", but if so, why did Luongo survive the trade deadline? Certainly, the team was a regular season juggernaut, but everyone knew they weren't going to be playoff favorites. Why didn't Gillis get help by trading Luongo, then? I think he tried it and didn't find a taker.

Why did Luongo remain a Canuck in the summer? Again, no takers, other than lowball offers from fringe teams.

Once the CBA is settled there will be a move. In truth there is no way to guess what it might be. We do not have enough information yet. The CBA might have clauses specific to these type contracts. Teams may be harshly penalized for these contracts. There may also be an amnesty. Or, the league may sue , disolving all contracts.

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12-16-2012, 05:05 PM
  #269
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How would Luongo be traded without a CBA put in place? Your logic is horrible. Your post is bad and you should feel bad.

Saying there is no market for Luongo because he hasn't been traded yet, and then going on to mention how there is no CBA right now, is ridiculous. Brutal contradiction.

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12-16-2012, 05:06 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Good luck finding a goalie that wants to go to your god awful team.
Good luck convincing the powers the be to have a season.

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12-16-2012, 05:06 PM
  #271
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Even though OrrCam is overstating it, the evidence remains, there is no market for Luongo. If there was, he'd be gone, right? The thing is, the player and the contract are two separate entities in the cap era. The CBA uncertainty makes contracts like Luongo's immoveable, no matter who the player is.

I am continuously assured the Cancuks are in "win now mode", but if so, why did Luongo survive the trade deadline? Certainly, the team was a regular season juggernaut, but everyone knew they weren't going to be playoff favorites. Why didn't Gillis get help by trading Luongo, then? I think he tried it and didn't find a taker.

Why did Luongo remain a Canuck in the summer? Again, no takers, other than lowball offers from fringe teams.

Once the CBA is settled there will be a move. In truth there is no way to guess what it might be. We do not have enough information yet. The CBA might have clauses specific to these type contracts. Teams may be harshly penalized for these contracts. There may also be an amnesty. Or, the league may sue , disolving all contracts.
No offense, but how do you have any idea what offers were given? Gillis might very well have a deal in place, just depending on the CBA structure might have to move some salary around before going ahead with it. Not to mention no trades can occur during a lockout. There are teams with a desperate need to upgrade their goaltending, and they will have to pay to get that upgrade.

I do agree that we'll likely see a trade when the CBA is settled, but until then we have no reason to assume Luongo's contract which was once all the rage, being given out to players like Hossa, Kovalchuk, Parise, Weber, etc, is all of a sudden going to become an albatross.

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12-16-2012, 05:09 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Leafsfan3 View Post
Good luck finding another team to unload Luongo and that god awful contract.
Don't worry about it... Not your problem and it really doesn't affect you.

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12-16-2012, 07:37 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Good luck finding a goalie that wants to go to your god awful team.
guys, they'll get Tim Thomas and Getzlaf and Perry all for free, so why would thy give up anything in a trade that solves their biggest issues.

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12-16-2012, 07:40 PM
  #274
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I'll never understand the hype around Luongo. Never. IMO, if he's even a #1 goalie in the league, it's definitely at the low end of the top 30.

Name me 10 goalies better than Luongo, never mind 30.


Last edited by spiny norman: 12-17-2012 at 11:47 AM. Reason: not needed
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12-16-2012, 07:42 PM
  #275
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Good luck finding a goalie that wants to go to your god awful team.
Lol Mr.Leafs are my 2nd team is ********? Why insult your 2nd favourite team?

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