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Old
12-15-2012, 09:50 PM
  #576
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Let's see a cat do this:


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12-15-2012, 10:30 PM
  #577
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A cat could laser that dog


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Old
12-15-2012, 10:51 PM
  #578
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Dogs>Cats

Ostriches are better than both though:



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12-15-2012, 10:53 PM
  #579
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It's Saturday night and I'm gunned.

It's still ridiculous to me that there's no hockey on television right now.

Ridiculous.

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12-15-2012, 11:02 PM
  #580
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It's Saturday night and I'm gunned.

It's still ridiculous to me that there's no hockey on television right now.

Ridiculous.
I'll have to resort to watching basketball. This sums up that sport pretty well though:


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12-15-2012, 11:50 PM
  #581
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Bosh is the best velociraptor in the NBA

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Old
12-16-2012, 06:04 AM
  #582
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I'll have to resort to watching basketball. This sums up that sport pretty well though:


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12-16-2012, 12:15 PM
  #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOOTANDSCORE View Post
I think I'll wait for the kindle version
Smart ass.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iamjs View Post
Chancellor, since you're back in the thread, would you mind answering my question from yesterday?
I'll go look for it...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
When going on the assumptions that its a pipe dream that southern markets can be successful and that the best athletes come from poor neighborhoods, your points all make sense. I just don't agree with either of those assumptions. That's where we disagree.

I don't think there's nearly enough evidence to support the idea that most of the southern teams can't become good hockey markets. We've been over this quite a few times before so I'm not repeating it all.

Sure, more people will always be able to play cheaper sports because rich and poor people can play them. But more people playing hockey will increase the odds of great athletes playing hockey even if its just because more rich people are choosing it over other sports. Its not like being poor makes someone a better athlete. Rich kids play sports too and they can be just as good at them as poor kids.
You're sort of splitting hairs here aren't you? What do you think that percentage of "best athletes in every city" is going to be vs. basketball, football and baseball? 2%? 3%? The thing you're envisioning is not going to happen unless your standard is very low. Something like "Well, if we have these non-traditional markets long enough then after a while we'll have two dozen more rinks in the US, and 100 more great athletes wanting to play hockey across the US every year... then yah. Definitely possible. If you want "so many more great athletes will want to play as to change the landscape of the sport over time", you're dreaming. At least as long as hockey remains so expensive. There are plenty of middle class parents who wont' foot the bill for their kid to play hockey every year, let alone the poor. And yes there are great athletes in every strata but the preponderance of them live in poor areas. That's not disputable.

Also not to be too jaded, but if I'm a little African American kid growing up and I see 10 or 12 non-white players in a 750 man league, I'm not exactly enthused that this is my sport. That part is changing very slowly but it's a LONG way from where it needs to be, for a big segment of the population to look and not immediately dismiss as "a white man's game".

And as to not enough data from southern / non-traditional franchises, how many years and franchises do we need to start drawing conclusions IYO? Honest question.


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Cause y'know, no Northern location has ever lost an AHL team or had attendance problems
You've said a few things like this and in each case it's not particularly relevant. It does not follow that because northern cities have AHL franchises that fold (or old NHL teams that left a long time ago), that there is no difference in northern and southern markets in terms of viability. One does not have to succeed 100% of the time for the other to be a much less hospitable market. That's all the more I'll say of that because the reasons they are less hospitable are self-evident / play themselves out every year.


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but....but hockey is only supposed to be in the north.
Don't you forget it! If I've said it once I've said it 1000x: No one should ever enjoy hockey (or even get to watch it on TV) except northerners! I'm glad you've finally learned this lesson while not ignoring everything I've written.



PS - I'm not going to look for your question now, until you stop misattributing stupid ideas to me.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 12-16-2012 at 12:20 PM.
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Old
12-16-2012, 12:37 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
You're sort of splitting hairs here aren't you? What do you think that percentage of "best athletes in every city" is going to be vs. basketball, football and baseball? 2%? 3%? The thing you're envisioning is not going to happen unless your standard is very low. Something like "Well, if we have these non-traditional markets long enough then after a while we'll have two dozen more rinks in the US, and 100 more great athletes wanting to play hockey across the US every year... then yah. Definitely possible. If you want "so many more great athletes will want to play as to change the landscape of the sport over time", you're dreaming. At least as long as hockey remains so expensive. There are plenty of middle class parents who wont' foot the bill for their kid to play hockey every year, let alone the poor.
http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2011...tes-1990-2009/

Are the numbers huge? No. But they are still going up. They'll never catch basketball or baseball or football because of the cost, but they can get closer. Enough to make a noticeable difference in the number of Americans as the top players in the league.

Also, I don't see why 100 extra great athletes wanting to play hockey every year should be sneezed at. If we can start to see a couple of extra American top end players coming up each year or two, I think that would do wonders for building the excitement for the next generation. That's when I think hockey in the states will really see a boom: when some more of the top players are American. Someone with a marketable personality to go with the skillset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Also not to be too jaded, but if I'm a little African American kid growing up and I see 10 or 12 non-white players in a 750 man league, I'm not exactly enthused that this is my sport.
There's no reason to think the NHL will remain an almost unanimously white sport forever.

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12-16-2012, 01:13 PM
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
PS - I'm not going to look for your question now, until you stop misattributing stupid ideas to me.
Tell me you've never seen that elsewhere on this board and I'll at least admit it was a partial shot at what you are saying. Wait....I think I screwed that up somehow


Last edited by iamjs: 12-16-2012 at 01:19 PM.
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Old
12-16-2012, 01:23 PM
  #586
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Why I miss the NHL


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Old
12-16-2012, 02:56 PM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2011...tes-1990-2009/

Are the numbers huge? No. But they are still going up. They'll never catch basketball or baseball or football because of the cost, but they can get closer. Enough to make a noticeable difference in the number of Americans as the top players in the league.

Also, I don't see why 100 extra great athletes wanting to play hockey every year should be sneezed at. If we can start to see a couple of extra American top end players coming up each year or two, I think that would do wonders for building the excitement for the next generation. That's when I think hockey in the states will really see a boom: when some more of the top players are American. Someone with a marketable personality to go with the skillset.


There's no reason to think the NHL will remain an almost unanimously white sport forever.
I think there's a disconnect between what I would consider to be a "boom" in the sports' popularity and what you would consider it to be. Maybe define better what you're talking about in this future US Hockey Utopia and it'll be easier to address it. IMO though there's not much evidence (going back roughly 20 years) to suggest expanding into non-traditional markets will yield a boom in hockey popularity 10-12 years down the road or ... whatever number you're envisioning. That is, not much cause-effect type evidence.



Quote:
Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Why I miss the NHL

Belfour... undisputed zen master of the nut-crushing / achilles-maiming goalie stick slash.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iamjs View Post
Tell me you've never seen that elsewhere on this board and I'll at least admit it was a partial shot at what you are saying. Wait....I think I screwed that up somehow
I frequent this particular board 99% of the time, but it wouldn't shock me to learn the main board has idiots saying something like "it's our game; move it all back to Canada" (northerners / paranoid Canadians) and that kind of stuff, but then I don't give much credence to anything that's posted on the main board.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 12-16-2012 at 03:01 PM.
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Old
12-16-2012, 06:13 PM
  #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I think there's a disconnect between what I would consider to be a "boom" in the sports' popularity and what you would consider it to be. Maybe define better what you're talking about in this future US Hockey Utopia and it'll be easier to address it. IMO though there's not much evidence (going back roughly 20 years) to suggest expanding into non-traditional markets will yield a boom in hockey popularity 10-12 years down the road or ... whatever number you're envisioning. That is, not much cause-effect type evidence.





Belfour... undisputed zen master of the nut-crushing / achilles-maiming goalie stick slash.




I frequent this particular board 99% of the time, but it wouldn't shock me to learn the main board has idiots saying something like "it's our game; move it all back to Canada" (northerners / paranoid Canadians) and that kind of stuff, but then I don't give much credence to anything that's posted on the main board.
Fair enough. Now you're just dragging this out.

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Old
12-16-2012, 06:32 PM
  #589
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This thread needs more pandas.

When asked how much Gary Bettman, a-holes like Jacobs, Donald Fehr, and the players suck, one panda was reported to have said:

"this much," as he spread his panda arms wide.


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Old
12-16-2012, 06:35 PM
  #590
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Metalhead: I see you a fan-flop and raise you a



BTW please keep all GIFs to the GIF thread so the pandas are safe. Thank you.

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12-16-2012, 08:47 PM
  #591
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NHL says that if NHLPA decertifies, all contracts are void. All players would become free agents. I REALLY hope something is solved soon, I'd rather not see Crosby on the Habs.

This isn't even about money at this point. Someone has been insulted, and they are trying to hurt the other party. It's pretty much like "you did something that made me mad, so I'm going to do something that will make you mad". It's ****ing pathetic.

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12-16-2012, 09:17 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
NHL says that if NHLPA decertifies, all contracts are void. All players would become free agents. I REALLY hope something is solved soon, I'd rather not see Crosby on the Habs.

This isn't even about money at this point. Someone has been insulted, and they are trying to hurt the other party. It's pretty much like "you did something that made me mad, so I'm going to do something that will make you mad". It's ****ing pathetic.
Will not happen.

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12-16-2012, 09:22 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by HuskerTornado View Post
Will not happen.
Why won't it happen? Who's to stop it? Here's my proof, if you are going to make claims, at least back it up:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/183635241.html

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/nhl121216.html

Don't start making 1-line answers with no facts. And yes, I'm pissed about the fact that we could be losing Crosby for an ****-ton of money to the Habs.


Last edited by shureshot66: 12-16-2012 at 10:36 PM.
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12-16-2012, 10:18 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Why won't it happen? Who's to stop it? Here's my proof, if you are going to make claims, at least back it up:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/183635241.html

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/nhl121216.html

Don't start making 1-line answers with no facts. And yes, I'm pissed about the fact that we could be losing Crosby for an ****-ton of money to the Habs.
At this point I wouldn't rule anything out completely, but the NHL is being smart by putting every option on the board. It builds up a media frenzy and ultimately could encourage players to accept a deal if they think the owners are actually desperate enough to make such a move.

Voiding players contracts would be the "nuclear option" that would literally blow up the league. There would be a consolidation of talent with the highest bidders and the low end teams would have no choice but to fold. That would mean fewer jobs for players.

I think it would be more likely that if the union decertifies, the NHL will simply resume operations under a new "CBA" that they choose (expect huge salary rollbacks), and players will be free to join the league or not (they would be tied to their current teams). The players who do not join the league would likely be engaged in lawsuits against the league.

This whole thing is ridiculous as it is, and none of the scenarios above are good for fans, but this is what it has come down to. If both sides fail to gain any common sense in the next couple weeks, the season is over.


Last edited by shureshot66: 12-16-2012 at 10:36 PM. Reason: QEP
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12-16-2012, 10:29 PM
  #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Why won't it happen? Who's to stop it? Here's my proof, if you are going to make claims, at least back it up:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/183635241.html

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/nhl121216.html

Don't start making 1-line answers with no facts. And yes, I'm pissed about the fact that we could be losing Crosby for an ****-ton of money to the Habs.
You believe the owners are really looking for all contracts to be voided? You believe it'll get that far? Do you believe in Santa?

Both sides have been playing a game of chicken. First labor negotiation you've ever paid attention to?

Common sense dictates that this will not get to the point where every player is a FA and some half-assed fantasy draft signing frenzy comes about in the off-season. If it does, I'm done with this league, as will be many fans. It won't be allowed to happen.

The links you posted are not proof of anything. Many dominoes have to fall for that to come to pass.

Calm down, take a deep breath and use some common sense. Comes in handy when posting hasty replies as well...


Last edited by shureshot66: 12-16-2012 at 10:36 PM. Reason: QEP
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12-16-2012, 10:48 PM
  #596
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Do you believe in Santa?


That's gold Jerry. Gold!

But seriously, there's no way those contracts get voided. Like you said, if that happens, I'm sure tons of fans are out, including me.

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Old
12-17-2012, 05:37 AM
  #597
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Originally Posted by HuskerTornado View Post
You believe the owners are really looking for all contracts to be voided? You believe it'll get that far? Do you believe in Santa?

Both sides have been playing a game of chicken. First labor negotiation you've ever paid attention to?

Common sense dictates that this will not get to the point where every player is a FA and some half-assed fantasy draft signing frenzy comes about in the off-season. If it does, I'm done with this league, as will be many fans. It won't be allowed to happen.

The links you posted are not proof of anything. Many dominoes have to fall for that to come to pass.

Calm down, take a deep breath and use some common sense. Comes in handy when posting hasty replies as well...
I really hope that you are right. But honestly, if all contracts were voided, most people would re-sign with their current teams. But hopefully we won't ever need to find out.

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12-17-2012, 07:42 AM
  #598
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It was inevitable.

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12-17-2012, 08:41 AM
  #599
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
NHL says that if NHLPA decertifies, all contracts are void. All players would become free agents. I REALLY hope something is solved soon, I'd rather not see Crosby on the Habs.

This isn't even about money at this point. Someone has been insulted, and they are trying to hurt the other party. It's pretty much like "you did something that made me mad, so I'm going to do something that will make you mad". It's ****ing pathetic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
I really hope that you are right. But honestly, if all contracts were voided, most people would re-sign with their current teams. But hopefully we won't ever need to find out.
You went full panda.


Last edited by Shady Machine: 12-17-2012 at 12:15 PM.
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12-17-2012, 08:50 AM
  #600
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Ogre vs Chancellor

Good discussion. As usual, I totally agree with Ogre. I think in general, you are both sort of discussing different things. Chancellor seems more concerned about A.) the product on the ice and B.) the current and short term financial health of the league. I think the part Chancellor is missing is the role the NHL has in growing the game of hockey.

Chanc, you made one statement about NHL franchises not being necessary to have hockey rinks prevalent in a market, and honestly that's where you're opinion of growing the game is wrong. It may not be necessary, but the correlation is HUGE. I mentioned a few pages ago the major effect Lemieux had on the growth of hockey in Pittsburgh and the many, many rinks added during the mid to late 90's. After the Stars won the cup, rinks were added all over the Dallas area in other cities as well. Without NHL teams in the South, hockey can grow, but professional teams are a major catalyst.

I guess at the end of the day, you don't seem overly concerned about the game growing among youth and how that will eventually produce new fans, new youth programs, junior teams, and eventually draft picks. Hell, Beau Bennett wouldn't exist without the NHL in Cali. He was the highest drafted player from California and it took 19 years after Anaheim got their team for it to happen (not sure if he was a Kings or Ducks fan).

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