HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Official MLB Thread - Part VII

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-17-2012, 10:35 AM
  #776
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,847
vCash: 500
From: @mlbtraderumors
Sent: Dec 17, 2012 11:18a

Blue Jays, Dickey Agree To Extension http://t.co/xHVLe0j1 #mlb

sent via twitterfeed
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors/st...08505349001217

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 10:55 AM
  #777
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,847
vCash: 500
From: @Buster_ESPN
Sent: Dec 17, 2012 11:48a

Dickey just landed in FLA to undergo his physical with the Jays. Some of his 2-year, $25m extension with TOR will be a signing bonus for '13

sent via web
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/statu...16151053496320

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 10:56 AM
  #778
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,847
vCash: 500
From: @Buster_ESPN
Sent: Dec 17, 2012 11:54a

Slight correction: Dickey's signing bonus from the Jays will apply in 2012 -- immediately -- not 2013.

sent via web
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/statu...17505281007616

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 11:36 AM
  #779
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,433
vCash: 500
good for Dickey, best of luck. I will go for TO in the AL, plus I hate the Yankees

I like the deal for the Mets though. Will be interesting to see who the other players are.

Vitto79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 12:23 PM
  #780
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 14,459
vCash: 500
You dont trade Cano. The Yankees dont trade guys like Cano. He's a generational talent in the mold of Pujols or A-Rod in that even when he's at his worst, he's still the best player at his position in the entire sport.

The Mets traded Jeff kent right when Kent was blossoming into a star, and he went on to become the best hitting 2nd baseman of his generation.

As far as the Mets go, I wouldnt put too much stock into their young pitching (aside from harvey)

Anybody who's been a Mets fan for a minute knows the Mets have a spotty record transitioning minor league stud pitchers to their MLB rotation. All the good Mets teams of the past (aside from 1969) were anchored by starting rotations built from outside the organization.

Seaver and Gooden. That's about it.

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 12:26 PM
  #781
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,308
vCash: 500
What is this rumor about the Yankees going after Bourne?

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 12:40 PM
  #782
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 14,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
What is this rumor about the Yankees going after Bourne?
Bleacher report started it....Jack Curry isn't saying much so probably nothing serious

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 12:45 PM
  #783
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 23,047
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Talent evaluators who have heard Toronto Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos say no to possible deals for catching prospect Travis d'Arnaud in the past are stunned -- completely shocked -- that Toronto has said yes to a to a trade for R.A. Dickey. A trade that is on the verge of being finalized with word that Dickey and the Jays have agreed to a two-year, $25 million contract extension.

There's even more to this deal than d'Arnaud: Noah Snydergaard, regarded as the Jays' best pitching prospect by some teams, is the cherry on top of this trade for the Mets.

"I can't believe [Anthopoulos is] thinking about doing this," said one AL official Saturday, before the Jays and Mets finished the structure of the deal.

"He's out of his mind," said another.
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/...ickey-deal-mlb

Quote:
Sandy Alderson and the New York Mets have received the absolute MAXIMUM possible return for R.A. Dickey #impressive
https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm/...03987910512640

Quite a deal for the Metsies. I trust Alderson's vision.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 12:54 PM
  #784
Ian
Mike York fan club
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
You dont trade Cano. The Yankees dont trade guys like Cano. He's a generational talent in the mold of Pujols or A-Rod in that even when he's at his worst, he's still the best player at his position in the entire sport.

The Mets traded Jeff kent right when Kent was blossoming into a star, and he went on to become the best hitting 2nd baseman of his generation.

As far as the Mets go, I wouldnt put too much stock into their young pitching (aside from harvey)

Anybody who's been a Mets fan for a minute knows the Mets have a spotty record transitioning minor league stud pitchers to their MLB rotation. All the good Mets teams of the past (aside from 1969) were anchored by starting rotations built from outside the organization.

Seaver and Gooden. That's about it.
The Kent trade had just as much to do with his attitude/demeanor than from a talent evaluation perspective imo, so it's hard to bash the Mets for that one. Plus he had his best years in his early 30's batting in a lineup with arguably the most prodigious hitter of the past 40 years, so who's to say he'd become that on the Mets.

Wheeler is just as good (likely better) than Harvey is. Harvey is slightly overrated now because of his great start in big leagues this year, but Wheeler has the better stuff.


also on the Mets & developing "stud" pitchers; the Mets haven't had stud pitching prospects in quite some time. Pelfrey was vastly overrated and never was looked at as a front of the line starter (sad that the Mets were going to draft Bruce there instead). Generation K is always held up as this terrible job by the Mets, but it was mostly injuries that held the three of them back (plus Wilson was a headcase). They've done a decent job recently with guys like Niese and Gee, but it's more of a reflection of poor drafting than bad player management.

And Nolan Ryan? Ron Darling? Jerry Koosman?

Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 12:54 PM
  #785
Kel Varnsen
Below: Nash's Heart
 
Kel Varnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
There's still a lot of anti-knuckleball bias out there. People can't accept that Dickey's not just a gimmick even though his numbers show he is elite.

Kel Varnsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 01:20 PM
  #786
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 14,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
The Kent trade had just as much to do with his attitude/demeanor than from a talent evaluation perspective imo, so it's hard to bash the Mets for that one. Plus he had his best years in his early 30's batting in a lineup with arguably the most prodigious hitter of the past 40 years, so who's to say he'd become that on the Mets.

Wheeler is just as good (likely better) than Harvey is. Harvey is slightly overrated now because of his great start in big leagues this year, but Wheeler has the better stuff.


also on the Mets & developing "stud" pitchers; the Mets haven't had stud pitching prospects in quite some time. Pelfrey was vastly overrated and never was looked at as a front of the line starter (sad that the Mets were going to draft Bruce there instead). Generation K is always held up as this terrible job by the Mets, but it was mostly injuries that held the three of them back (plus Wilson was a headcase). They've done a decent job recently with guys like Niese and Gee, but it's more of a reflection of poor drafting than bad player management.

And Nolan Ryan? Ron Darling? Jerry Koosman?
You cant sugarcoat the Kent trade. It was a terrible trade. It was a terrible trade at the time as well. Baerga was fat, lazy and injured when he was acquired. Kent was widely regarded as one of the best young 2B in the game as a met. Plus, he was an all-star on three different teams. It's a cop out to say he was a great hitter because of Bonds.

How is Harvey the one who's overrated when he's the one who's actually dominated MLB hitters? Harvey threw 60 IP at the major league level while Wheeler has only 33 IP at AAA???

Injuries or headcase???? What's the difference? The point is that the Mets don't develop frontline starters....when they've won, they acquired them.


Koosman was never the ace of the staff until much later in his career. Seaver ran the staff. Ryan was never a dominant starter as a Met. Darling was a high Rangers draft pick and spent a year in their system before being traded. He was an above-average picther at best...really only had one "dominant" season.

50 years history and only two aforementioned pitchers were drafted and developed by the Mets who went on to become legit aces. Koosman is a close third.

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 01:25 PM
  #787
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 14,459
vCash: 500
Good for Toronto. They've tried and tried and tried to develop players and it's amounted to nothing in the standings.

IMO there's no difference between finishing 3rd or 5th in that division. 82-80 is just a psychologically appealing record but in reality it;'s no different that 75-87 or 69-93.

That team draws **** for fans and it's been that way since the early 1990s. Their last playoff team was full of old veteran hired guns.

Same with KC. Just go for broke. Who cares what people think about overpaying FA's or trading away prospects for vets? Developing prospects and playing them hasnt worked. Time for Plan B, C, D etc.

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 01:33 PM
  #788
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 14,459
vCash: 500
Still. You dont win jack **** in December. I think we all learn it every year (see eagles, Angels, Red Sox, Dodgers etc)

The Yankees are returning three 15 win starters. That's all I care about.

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 01:44 PM
  #789
Bob Richards
Mr. Mojo Risin'
 
Bob Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 45,916
vCash: 50
Going to miss R.A. but this trade is to the benefit of both parties. Dickey wasn't winning any rings with the Mets any time soon.

__________________
"New day, new hope. Richards Buyout 2014". -Ail
Bob Richards is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 02:33 PM
  #790
Ian
Mike York fan club
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
You cant sugarcoat the Kent trade. It was a terrible trade. It was a terrible trade at the time as well. Baerga was fat, lazy and injured when he was acquired. Kent was widely regarded as one of the best young 2B in the game as a met. Plus, he was an all-star on three different teams. It's a cop out to say he was a great hitter because of Bonds.

How is Harvey the one who's overrated when he's the one who's actually dominated MLB hitters? Harvey threw 60 IP at the major league level while Wheeler has only 33 IP at AAA???

Injuries or headcase???? What's the difference? The point is that the Mets don't develop frontline starters....when they've won, they acquired them.


Koosman was never the ace of the staff until much later in his career. Seaver ran the staff. Ryan was never a dominant starter as a Met. Darling was a high Rangers draft pick and spent a year in their system before being traded. He was an above-average picther at best...really only had one "dominant" season.

50 years history and only two aforementioned pitchers were drafted and developed by the Mets who went on to become legit aces. Koosman is a close third.
Kent was traded by the Mets when he was 28. While he was certainly look at as a "good" player at the time, he wasn't some up and coming star still. He was a moody SOB who took games off and didn't want to play for a losing team, which the Mets were at that time.

Just because a guy became a great player for another team, doesn't mean you can absolutely kill an organization for it. He was a moody POS who was absolutely dreadful to watch when the Mets were losing, if you actually watched him play.


Harvey is now overrated because people are basing his ability off of 10 starts at the MLB level at the end of the season. Is he extremely talented? Yes. Is he now a better prospect than Wheeler because of it? No.

Harvey will likely be a great 3/solid 2, Wheeler has the potential to a great 2/ace for a few seasons.



Seaver is an all time great, can't really hold it on Koosman for being overshadowed.


TLDR; Mets biggest problem is poor drafting and fans expectations that every high pick/touted player is the savior.

Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 02:44 PM
  #791
TheRedViper
Registered User
 
TheRedViper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Good for Toronto. They've tried and tried and tried to develop players and it's amounted to nothing in the standings.

IMO there's no difference between finishing 3rd or 5th in that division. 82-80 is just a psychologically appealing record but in reality it;'s no different that 75-87 or 69-93.

That team draws **** for fans and it's been that way since the early 1990s. Their last playoff team was full of old veteran hired guns.

Same with KC. Just go for broke. Who cares what people think about overpaying FA's or trading away prospects for vets? Developing prospects and playing them hasnt worked. Time for Plan B, C, D etc.
Toronto has only been REALLY developing prospects for three years now.. Hardly enough time to cast a verdict as to whether or not that strategy works.

TheRedViper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 04:22 PM
  #792
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,818
vCash: 500
Awards:
The other piece the Mets gave up is Nickeas. Mets get Wuilmer Bucerra (of).

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 04:56 PM
  #793
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 14,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Kent was traded by the Mets when he was 28. While he was certainly look at as a "good" player at the time, he wasn't some up and coming star still. He was a moody SOB who took games off and didn't want to play for a losing team, which the Mets were at that time.

Just because a guy became a great player for another team, doesn't mean you can absolutely kill an organization for it. He was a moody POS who was absolutely dreadful to watch when the Mets were losing, if you actually watched him play.
Yeah, he wasn't an up and coming star except for the MVP award, 300 HR and 1200 RBI he accumulated after getting traded. You do realize he was traded for a prime David Cone. Thompson was a throw in. Cone was 29 and an ace at the time of the trade. Kent wasn't some scrub. He was blocked by Alomar in Toronto and he was traded because Dallas green liked Alfonzo better. That's fine.

And Kent was moody and a malcontent everywhere he played. he was an SOB. So was Strawberry. So was Randy Myers. So was Lenny Dykstra. Being an SOB isn't grounds for trading a guy.

As much as i blast Cano for loafing and being nonchalant, he's still the best 2B in the game and you don't trade guys like that until you have some type of death wish,.

Quote:
Harvey is now overrated because people are basing his ability off of 10 starts at the MLB level at the end of the season. Is he extremely talented? Yes. Is he now a better prospect than Wheeler because of it? No.
Makes zero sense to me. Sorry. When Wheeler finally pitches in baseball, then we can compare. You can think Wheeler has a higher ceiling. Fine. Calling Harvey "overrated" because he actually pitched in the majors (and pitched extremely well) again, makes zero sense. Especially when you consider the Mets are being patient with Harvey and not touting him as the next Viola.

Quote:
Harvey will likely be a great 3/solid 2, Wheeler has the potential to a great 2/ace for a few seasons.
Harvey had an ERA+ of 139 in his rookie year. Steve Strasburg also had an ERA+ of 139 his rookie season. Strasburg pitched about 10 IP more.


Quote:
Seaver is an all time great, can't really hold it on Koosman for being overshadowed
.

Just saying that Koosman was never the ace of the Mets staff. Even when he outperformed Seaver, Seaver was still the ace of the staff.

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 05:14 PM
  #794
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 14,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
Toronto has only been REALLY developing prospects for three years now.. Hardly enough time to cast a verdict as to whether or not that strategy works.
How is the way they're developing players now any different from what they did the previous 5, or 10 or 15 years?

The results suck every year.

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 06:18 PM
  #795
Isles Junkie
Registered User
 
Isles Junkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,059
vCash: 500
I love RA Dickey with all my heart. But this was a brilliant trade. We got 2 top notch prospects + an interesting prospect that's a long way away for basically RA Dickey & 2 lousy catchers.

They'll leave d'Arnaud down in AAA for a month so they don't have to start his arbitration clock a year earlier than they have to. and I'm fine with that. Boy I'm really excited to see these kids play.

Isles Junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 06:31 PM
  #796
TheRedViper
Registered User
 
TheRedViper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
How is the way they're developing players now any different from what they did the previous 5, or 10 or 15 years?

The results suck every year.
The approach of developing under AA is a 100% polar opposite approach then the one JPR used.

JPR was all about the safe, close to ML rdy college players, which extremely limited upside.
AA's philosophy is to take the most talented, high upside player with his picks. And it's payed off immensely.
The Jays farm has gone from one of the worst in the majors, to a top 5 farm - top 3 according to many -.
For this reason, the Jays have had the ammo to actually make these past two deals.

That's how it's different from the past 5-10 years.

TheRedViper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 06:31 PM
  #797
White Plains Batman
Faceoffs? Faceoffs!!
 
White Plains Batman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,610
vCash: 500
Jeff Kent was never going to work in NY. He hated the media, the media hated him. There's a difference in being hard to get along with like a Strawberry or Myers, and just not getting along with your teammates like Kent.

The guys who came up with the Mets for their World Series win in 86 like Straw, Dykstra, Backman, Mitchell were all tough to get along with, but if you messed with any of their teammates, they'd beat you up. Kent would just walk away.

He lived up to being a hunting, truck driving, country boy (even though he was from a suburb of LA) and complained about not being left along through the media. Some guys just don't work in this city, we've seen it with all of the teams. It took Kent three teams and having to go back to California to feel comfortable and live up to his potential.

As for this trade, I don't know baseball prospects very well but I hope D'arnaud isn't injury prone. I wish Dickey a lot of luck in Toronto and hopefully he can get a ring. I just hope the Mets made the right move and this trade is more of what they gave the Twins for Frank Viola (Aguileria and Tappani) then getting a moody malcontent and a journeyman.

White Plains Batman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 06:42 PM
  #798
TheRedViper
Registered User
 
TheRedViper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
Jeff Kent was never going to work in NY. He hated the media, the media hated him. There's a difference in being hard to get along with like a Strawberry or Myers, and just not getting along with your teammates like Kent.

The guys who came up with the Mets for their World Series win in 86 like Straw, Dykstra, Backman, Mitchell were all tough to get along with, but if you messed with any of their teammates, they'd beat you up. Kent would just walk away.

He lived up to being a hunting, truck driving, country boy (even though he was from a suburb of LA) and complained about not being left along through the media. Some guys just don't work in this city, we've seen it with all of the teams. It took Kent three teams and having to go back to California to feel comfortable and live up to his potential.

As for this trade, I don't know baseball prospects very well but I hope D'arnaud isn't injury prone. I wish Dickey a lot of luck in Toronto and hopefully he can get a ring. I just hope the Mets made the right move and this trade is more of what they gave the Twins for Frank Viola (Aguileria and Tappani) then getting a moody malcontent and a journeyman.
Not sure if I'd call D'Arnaud injury prone, but he's been sidelined a couple times since the Doc trade. Knee last year, wrist or hand the season before.

Either way, D'Arnaud and Syndergaard are two exceptional talents

TheRedViper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 07:53 PM
  #799
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 14,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
Jeff Kent was never going to work in NY. He hated the media, the media hated him. There's a difference in being hard to get along with like a Strawberry or Myers, and just not getting along with your teammates like Kent.

The guys who came up with the Mets for their World Series win in 86 like Straw, Dykstra, Backman, Mitchell were all tough to get along with, but if you messed with any of their teammates, they'd beat you up. Kent would just walk away.

He lived up to being a hunting, truck driving, country boy (even though he was from a suburb of LA) and complained about not being left along through the media. Some guys just don't work in this city, we've seen it with all of the teams. It took Kent three teams and having to go back to California to feel comfortable and live up to his potential.

As for this trade, I don't know baseball prospects very well but I hope D'arnaud isn't injury prone. I wish Dickey a lot of luck in Toronto and hopefully he can get a ring. I just hope the Mets made the right move and this trade is more of what they gave the Twins for Frank Viola (Aguileria and Tappani) then getting a moody malcontent and a journeyman.
Of course Kent would have never worked out in NY.

Of course.

Of course, you didnt hear Mets fans say that while he was playing here, especially in 1995 when they had one of the better 2nd half records in the MLB with a very young team, and Kent was crushing the ball.

Barry Bonds hated Kent. Everybody hated Kent. The point is that when you dont trade consistency, especially at 2B or 3B.

Both Kent and Macreynolds were hated by the media and players because they kept to themselves. But both were productive as Mets.

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 08:41 PM
  #800
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 23,047
vCash: 500
Awards:
Becerra was a highly regarded international free agent a few years back. Last season he got crushed in the face with a pitch and missed most of the season. He's toolsy. A nice throw-in for sure.

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.