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2012-2013 Official BST Discussion Thread Part II

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:22 PM
  #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Yeah, he stunk in camp last year. I view hockey players. I don't romance prospects. Nino was the worst player on the team not through his own fault but through a budget opportunity exercise. If someone wants a winner, look at Detroit where the players in their farm system would be regulars in our lineup BUT DO NOT PLAY FOR DETROIT BECAUSE DETROIT WANTS THEM 100% READY BEFORE ANY PRO GAMES ARE POSSIBLE. I saw Nino use his size to not get flattened but not all the time. Players caught him easily, and I recall that one BRUTAL hit caused by Nino's head stuck on the puck going right through his skates missing the 220lb opponent laying into him with EASE.

You wanna call me a pessimist? Reread my posts. I say he can make it. We are leaving him ALONE (against the will of the rookie-philes) this whole year so his development will be much better. Add: we have better guys coming like Strome and Donovan and Reinhart (I hope we don't touch him next year!) for the team to promote so Nino might get even more time to evolve into a pro player.

Am I being mean? Fine. I'll accept that. It's a product of having high expectations.....like winning hockey games.

"He was a non factor last year"


Good thing we didn't get someone who COULD be a factor and protect our prospect from being ruined. Something this team is GREAT at!
Once again you muddy your posts with the same whining about budget. We all know it's there, it's the way it is, and I'm not sure if it's ever going to change. I wouldn't call me and you quoting me saying, "He was a non factor" as romancing prospects. Everyone sees the tough stance I take on Bailey so I definitely don't romance prospects. Nino wasn't the only rookie who took a heavy hit this season and he won't be the last. Hell, Scott Stevens laid out Eric Lindros in the playoffs and pretty much nailed shut his coffin, all because Lindros had his head down. Ask Patty Lafontaine about skating with your head down and watching the puck. If he could shake his head without getting headaches he'd be shaking his head yes. You keep bringing up one hit. That's not consistency, that's an anomaly. I did not see him consistently getting flattened.

Anyway, I know your view on the budget and team spending and ownership. It will probably always be difficult to remove that from your thought process when we are talking about something unrelated like a prospects play in an NHL season. How he got there is not what makes his play, it's what he does. I've said it before and I'll say it again, he didnt' belong in the NHL last season, but he also didn't belong in Juniors. When they fix the nonsense in this next cba we shouldn't be in a predicament like that again. If I were to chalk up what got him more experience last year, another year in juniors was a waste. At the very least, he learned to skate with his head up....

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12-11-2012, 06:29 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by lukasfindl View Post
I didnt see any pre-season games, but nino looked overwhelmed from the first nhl game he played. I assume that meant he wasnt good in camp either. But, as always, when i suggested that at the time the homers went bonkers and i had to listen to it. It was like a militant/ forced pro nino regiment in place.
How many times do I have to use the phrase "non factor" before I keep getting lumped in with all the pro nino guys? Call me a pro DP guy, I'll succumb to that but I have not made a decision on Nino yet. This has nothing to do with love or hate, just from the preseason games I watched (maybe 3) I did not think he looked overwhelmed at all. I think he looked like any rookie starting his first camp yet in an adult body which gave him an edge. He certainly didn't turn heads but he wasn't invisible in preseason either. After a groin strain and a concussion in between a stint where he actually looked decent he never got back into a strong role with the team and played with losers. That's all there is to it....

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12-11-2012, 07:57 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I thought Nino looked pretty good towards the end of the year. He was skating well, playing physical, didn't seem to look lost like he did earlier. I do think he gets beat on a little too hard by posters here though. If he would have failed in a situation where he were playing with Nielsen or JT or Bailey or KO, on some sort of scoring line, I think the bashing would be warranted. That said, Nino was basically set up to fail playing on the 4th line. People look at the points when criticizing him, which really doesn't seem fair considering the minutes/linemates/responsibilites of that line.

Capuano didn't want Nino to be a point producer last year, he wanted him to be a guy who would throw his body around and spark the team. IMO he wasn't ready to be that type of player at the NHL level.

I'm very pleased with how he's played so far in the AHL, though. I was pretty confident that he'd bounce back and succeed this year, and I'm glad he's proving me right. This kid has a great work ethic. I have no doubt he'll be ready to go for the start of the 2013/14 season. I also have no doubt that when that happens, he will not be playing on the 4th line.
This is very much were I stand on the issue. Again, I'm of very limited viewings, but this is much of what I caught.

People like to beat on his massive +/- value and his 1 point. These, while bad, are pretty low ranking factors. I'm not entirely convinced Crosby, Tavares, or any other NHL player you could mention would exactly thrive with 5 minutes a night beside the likes of Pandolfo and Reasoner. I draw comparisons of unproductive circumstances to the Canuck's Manny Malholtra - When you start so few of your shifts offensively (in the name of giving the Sedins as many scoring chances as possible), you aren't going to produce. Similarly, when you start with 2 NHL has-beens as a player who thrives off being fed the puck, you aren't going anywhere. I won't make excuses: Niederreiter just isn't good enough to generate the play himself. Very much to the Flames' Iginla, he can't drive the line and won't make players around him better (in terms of skill. Iginla used to be a leader by example...but those days have gone by). All he'll do is finish well. Therefore, had he been on a line with a skilled playmaker who would feed Niederreiter the puck and the same happened, then there are major concerns to his level of play.

Between when I saw him in his first couple games in an Islanders jersey to when I saw him when the Islanders visited the Saddledome, there was minor improvement. Compared to his Winterhawks days and his initial 10 game stint, he was more physical, more aggressive, and didn't end up in the middle of nowhere as often. He was overwhelmed to start both his seasons. What makes it no a total (though extremely bad) loss for me is that he learned, as I stated before, that he's going to need to adapt a bit.

This year, the first takeaway is that he hasn't let the last season totally rattle him. He came back looking to make a statement. And with proper ice time and players that complement him, he's looked much better.

I'm not familiar with the Islander's depth, but if there's a pass-first type of player who can act as a secondary threat to the offence on either the 3rd or 2nd line, Niederreiter would continue this level of success with him.

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12-11-2012, 08:18 PM
  #404
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Right on cue:

Nino scores a PP goal halfway thru the 3rd to tie the game at 1. Kid's been pretty awesome.

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12-11-2012, 10:21 PM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirant View Post
This is very much were I stand on the issue. Again, I'm of very limited viewings, but this is much of what I caught.

People like to beat on his massive +/- value and his 1 point. These, while bad, are pretty low ranking factors. I'm not entirely convinced Crosby, Tavares, or any other NHL player you could mention would exactly thrive with 5 minutes a night beside the likes of Pandolfo and Reasoner. I draw comparisons of unproductive circumstances to the Canuck's Manny Malholtra - When you start so few of your shifts offensively (in the name of giving the Sedins as many scoring chances as possible), you aren't going to produce. Similarly, when you start with 2 NHL has-beens as a player who thrives off being fed the puck, you aren't going anywhere. I won't make excuses: Niederreiter just isn't good enough to generate the play himself. Very much to the Flames' Iginla, he can't drive the line and won't make players around him better (in terms of skill. Iginla used to be a leader by example...but those days have gone by). All he'll do is finish well. Therefore, had he been on a line with a skilled playmaker who would feed Niederreiter the puck and the same happened, then there are major concerns to his level of play.

Between when I saw him in his first couple games in an Islanders jersey to when I saw him when the Islanders visited the Saddledome, there was minor improvement. Compared to his Winterhawks days and his initial 10 game stint, he was more physical, more aggressive, and didn't end up in the middle of nowhere as often. He was overwhelmed to start both his seasons. What makes it no a total (though extremely bad) loss for me is that he learned, as I stated before, that he's going to need to adapt a bit.

This year, the first takeaway is that he hasn't let the last season totally rattle him. He came back looking to make a statement. And with proper ice time and players that complement him, he's looked much better.

I'm not familiar with the Islander's depth, but if there's a pass-first type of player who can act as a secondary threat to the offence on either the 3rd or 2nd line, Niederreiter would continue this level of success with him.
Who did Tavares play with his first year? Rookies and has beens. However, that's not even pertinent to Nino's situation. He got screwed by the politics of Wang's payroll. I don't think anyone holds it against the kid that he was served his head and ass on a platter by the league. That is Snow & Wang's shame. Our concern is if it hurt his development. Seeing him respond well this year just adds salt to the wound caused by not putting him where he needed to go last year.

As far as adaptation that is something all players have to learn. I didn't see Nino adept. he was pretty much a lost puppy most of last season. The numbers he didn't put up are not the reason his season was a loss, they are a symptom of him being thrown under the bus by Chuck and the below league minimum salary Wang forced on his GM.

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12-11-2012, 10:33 PM
  #406
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Fair enough on the Tavares point. I don't know his past situation well. It's just part of a pre-packaged ramble I generally put on about having to take situation into context...in this case, that anybody's numbers would hurt a bit given the situation Nino played in, more so as he's a player geared towards finishing, not making others better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Our concern is if it hurt his development. Seeing him respond well this year just adds salt to the wound caused by not putting him where he needed to go last year.
From my perspective, I don't think there's any good place for him to have gone last year. He wouldn't learn much in Portland (though I would have loved him to make that team even better) and the NHL was too advanced for him to really pick up any tools. Unless he could get a loan to Europe, there was going to be a delay of some variety because of the AHL/CHL rules. This is the perfect level for him to be growing in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
As far as adaptation that is something all players have to learn. I didn't see Nino adept. he was pretty much a lost puppy most of last season.
This may be something I have misread. I get very limited viewings (<5/year) and the few I get are fairly spaced out, so one good/bad night can radically alter my opinion. I just know his starting point well, and go from 1 or 2 games for each data point past. From the limited date though, I've seen is a player who got more and more physical as the season wore on, something that was less prevalent in his Portland version of himself, or even the night I saw him in the Saddledome.

I'll believe the point if he never really got better. I definitely am in no position to speak to this with true authority.

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12-12-2012, 06:36 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
How many times do I have to use the phrase "non factor" before I keep getting lumped in with all the pro nino guys? Call me a pro DP guy, I'll succumb to that but I have not made a decision on Nino yet. This has nothing to do with love or hate, just from the preseason games I watched (maybe 3) I did not think he looked overwhelmed at all. I think he looked like any rookie starting his first camp yet in an adult body which gave him an edge. He certainly didn't turn heads but he wasn't invisible in preseason either. After a groin strain and a concussion in between a stint where he actually looked decent he never got back into a strong role with the team and played with losers. That's all there is to it....
like i said: didnt watch any pre-season games, so i honestly cant judge from them. But i did notice that the isles played with only prospects in two of the prea-seasoners, if nino didnt look good in those games he should clearly gone back to juniors.

As soon as the nhl started he looked weak. I dont think it was his fault or is a strong indicator about his upside, but he still stank.

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12-12-2012, 10:02 PM
  #408
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FYI... second time Elliotte Friedman has mentioned that scouts are impressed with Nino in his column. Also a mention of Nelson.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...out-fixer.html

Quote:
26. I got a lot of requests on Sunday for updates on prospects. More of that than anything else. So I emailed two NHL guys who have great AHL eyes and asked them to let me know who they liked. They weren't shy. Both agreed on (NHL team in parenthesis): Nino Niederreiter (NYI), Tomas Tatar (DET), Jason Zucker (MIN), Justin Schultz (EDM), Oliver Ekman-Larsson (PHO), Richard Panik & Tyler Johnson (TB), Jake Gardiner (TOR).

27. Executive A said he could've done two or three players per team, but cut down to: Jordan Eberle (EDM), Brayden Schenn (PHI), Brock Nelson (NYI), Nazem Kadri (TOR), Justin Faulk (CAR), Gustav Nyquist (DET), Roman Horak, Sven Baertschi & Barry Brust (CAL), Robin Lehner (OTT) and Curtis McElhinney (CLB).

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12-14-2012, 06:29 PM
  #409
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http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/1587...-admirals.html

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12-14-2012, 07:40 PM
  #410
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Nice goal by Nelson. Wrap-around. Yey.

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12-14-2012, 08:58 PM
  #411
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Nelson might be injured. He got hit by the puck in the face, late in the second period. He has not been playing anything more after that.

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12-14-2012, 11:11 PM
  #412
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Bridgeport won 4-3 tonight down in Norfolk with Casey Cizikas getting the game winning goal in OT.

-Nilsson in net making 27 saves.

- Persson, Nelson, Wishart and Cizikas all with goals for B'port.

- Blair, Nino, Nelson all with assists tonight and the captain McDonald got 2.

Brock Nelson left the game in the second period when he got a stick or a puck to the mouth.

Fornabaio has a short write up of the game here for all those interested: http://www.ctpost.com/sports/article...in-4120238.php

Bridgeport plays them again tomorrow night at 7:15.

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12-15-2012, 07:24 AM
  #413
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I'm trying to go to the game tonight. I will be very disappointed if Nelson is out.

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12-15-2012, 06:00 PM
  #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StumpNYI View Post
I'm trying to go to the game tonight. I will be very disappointed if Nelson is out.
Sorry to hear that cuz Nelson is out tonight.

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12-15-2012, 06:15 PM
  #415
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Any link tonight?

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12-15-2012, 06:53 PM
  #416
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Nino makes it 1-0

Persson makes it 2-0


Last edited by Isles Enforcer: 12-15-2012 at 07:25 PM.
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12-15-2012, 08:00 PM
  #417
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I have high hopes for Persson

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Old
12-15-2012, 09:31 PM
  #418
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They lost, 3-2 in a SO. Poulin stopped 50 of 52 shots... pretty impressive.

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12-16-2012, 10:21 AM
  #419
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Crosby and Tavares got minutes. Those guys are elite players who dont need surrounding talent. Andy Hilbert was Crosbys go to guy in the last quarter of his rookie year. Look at Stamkos when melrose worked him on the third line and then the first after melrose got camned. Under Melrose people were calling him a bust.

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12-16-2012, 12:35 PM
  #420
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Hey guys how is Hamonic doing so far this year? I'm a big fan of his and NYI are one my secondary teams I cheer for so just curious. Thanks in advance for any updates on Hamonic

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12-16-2012, 01:01 PM
  #421
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Hey guys how is Hamonic doing so far this year? I'm a big fan of his and NYI are one my secondary teams I cheer for so just curious. Thanks in advance for any updates on Hamonic


I've made the comment that I thought Hamonic was playing to stay in shape, avoid getting hurt before the lockout ends.

Below's a comment from a recent Elliotte Friedman column. Nice to see TH getting props.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...n-sigalet.html
Events & Contests
30 Thoughts: Harding has kindred hockey spirit in Sigalet
By Elliotte Friedman

Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 |
25. Another New York Islander getting good reviews is Travis Hamonic. "A beast," said one scout. I mentioned this last year, but a couple of teammates said he just had to understand how good he is. Sounds like he's figuring it out.

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12-17-2012, 03:55 AM
  #422
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Hey guys how is Hamonic doing so far this year? I'm a big fan of his and NYI are one my secondary teams I cheer for so just curious. Thanks in advance for any updates on Hamonic
from what i have seem this season Travis's play has been uninspired...he can dominate at times but honestly he looks bored as well

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12-17-2012, 10:06 AM
  #423
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I really excited by the play of several gjuys so far this year.

1) Niederreiter: Said he wanted to prove he's not a 3rd line player, to prove he's a goal scorer, and he's on pace for 30-35 goals as a 20 year old in his first full AHL season. Considering his horror story season last year, it makes it even more impressive. He's proving to me the player he was last year, is not the type of player he is. He's a very talented future goal scoring power forward, and I drool at the thought of a full season of him riding shot gun w/Tavares or Strome.

2) Nelson: How could you not love this guy, every time he moves to a tougher league, he figures out what is needed to succeed, and he goes about doing that. A BIG center with excellent offensive instincts, he's not even as big as he's going to be, but is still tough to knock off of the puck, and has very good hands (like Nino). The thought of having Tavares-Strome-Nelson as our top 3 centers has to excite any Islander's fans. Nelson could also play wing, which is good in case the Isles want him to have top 6 minutes.

3)Sundstrom: Another BIG centerman having a fine rookie season, in fact, I really didn't expect him to do this well so soon (offensively). After a slow start, really coming on offensively. If someone told me he'd be outscoring Ranger uber-prospect Chris Kreider at this point, I'd tell them they were nuts. I love the size of the Isle's prospects.

4)Persson: Another Swede with size, he seems to be the sniper to Sundstrom's set up man. He also isn't afraid to drop the dukes. Obviously further down the list of prospects, I like his chances. Not the speed demon like Ullstrom, he still seems to be able to produce offensively.

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12-17-2012, 01:00 PM
  #424
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I really excited by the play of several gjuys so far this year.

1) Niederreiter: Said he wanted to prove he's not a 3rd line player, to prove he's a goal scorer, and he's on pace for 30-35 goals as a 20 year old in his first full AHL season. Considering his horror story season last year, it makes it even more impressive. He's proving to me the player he was last year, is not the type of player he is. He's a very talented future goal scoring power forward, and I drool at the thought of a full season of him riding shot gun w/Tavares or Strome.

2) Nelson: How could you not love this guy, every time he moves to a tougher league, he figures out what is needed to succeed, and he goes about doing that. A BIG center with excellent offensive instincts, he's not even as big as he's going to be, but is still tough to knock off of the puck, and has very good hands (like Nino). The thought of having Tavares-Strome-Nelson as our top 3 centers has to excite any Islander's fans. Nelson could also play wing, which is good in case the Isles want him to have top 6 minutes.

3)Sundstrom: Another BIG centerman having a fine rookie season, in fact, I really didn't expect him to do this well so soon (offensively). After a slow start, really coming on offensively. If someone told me he'd be outscoring Ranger uber-prospect Chris Kreider at this point, I'd tell them they were nuts. I love the size of the Isle's prospects.

4)Persson: Another Swede with size, he seems to be the sniper to Sundstrom's set up man. He also isn't afraid to drop the dukes. Obviously further down the list of prospects, I like his chances. Not the speed demon like Ullstrom, he still seems to be able to produce offensively.
agree with all this.

Watching some highlights on Nelson and you can't help but be impressed with his game. Good stick skills, drives the net, great size and skating - I think he'll be a very good NHL player.

Bit disappointed with Ullstrom and Cizikas, I'd thought they'd take their game up a notch, neither have. I still expect Cizikas to be a good pro, bottom six guy. I see Ullstrom and a Bergenheim clone though, not enough offense, vision despite good wheels and solid effort. But there's time. Way to early to give up on the kid.

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12-17-2012, 01:18 PM
  #425
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agree with all this.

Watching some highlights on Nelson and you can't help but be impressed with his game. Good stick skills, drives the net, great size and skating - I think he'll be a very good NHL player.

Bit disappointed with Ullstrom and Cizikas, I'd thought they'd take their game up a notch, neither have. I still expect Cizikas to be a good pro, bottom six guy. I see Ullstrom and a Bergenheim clone though, not enough offense, vision despite good wheels and solid effort. But there's time. Way to early to give up on the kid.
I'm still very high on both of these guys. Ulllstrom, it's very tough to find guys with his size, AND Speed ! He's been very productive at Bridgeport as a goal scorer, but I see him on our future 3rd line with Sundstrom and Persson. If one of these guys doesn't work out, I see Cizikas picking up the slack. Cizikas has averaged almost a point a game since he started in the AHL. I LOVE his competitiveness, and he reminds me of a poor mans Ryan Callahan. Similar stats in juniors. Though Callahan was obviously more of a sniper, while Cizikas is a passer first.

Ryan Callahan
Right Wing
Born Mar 21 1985 -- Rochester, NY
[27 yrs. ago]
Height 5.11 -- Weight 185 -- Shoots R
Selected by New York Rangers round 4 #127 overall 2004 NHL Entry Draft

Tweet Regular Season Playoffs
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM
2000-01 Syracuse Jr. Crunch OPJHL 3 4 2 6 0
2001-02 Buffalo Lightning OPJHL 47 13 23 36 75
2002-03 Guelph Storm OHL 59 14 17 31 47 15 11 0 3 3 2
2003-04 Guelph Storm OHL 68 36 32 68 86 17 22 13 8 21 20
2004-05 Guelph Storm OHL 60 28 26 54 108 -4 4 1 1 2 6
2005-06 Guelph Storm OHL 62 52 32 84 126 29 13 7 17 24 20
2006-07 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 60 35 20 55 74 7

Casey Cizikas
Center
Born Feb 27 1991 -- Toronto, ONT
[21 yrs. ago]
Height 5.10 -- Weight 192 -- Shoots L
Selected by New York Islanders round 4 #92 overall 2009 NHL Entry Draft

Tweet Regular Season Playoffs
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM
2007-08 Mississauga St. Michael's Majors OHL 62 18 23 41 41 12 4 1 2 3 6
2008-09 Mississauga St. Michael's Majors OHL 55 16 20 36 39 -15 11 5 4 9 11
2009-10 Mississauga St. Michael's Majors OHL 68 25 37 62 77 32 16 7 7 14 16
2010-11 Mississauga St. Michael's Majors OHL 52 29 35 64 40 43 16 5 14 19 14
2011-12 Bridgeport Sound Tigers AHL 52 15 30 45 30 26 3 0 0 0 20
2011-12 New York Islanders NHL 15 0 4 4 6 1 -- -- -- -- --

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