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*OFFICIAL* Plymouth Whalers 2012-2013 Season Thread

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Old
12-11-2012, 06:50 AM
  #101
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I don't think Wilson is close to NHL ready, Caps have 9 forwards signed for 13-14 not including Johansson. They also have prospects like Forsberg and Galiev ahead of Wilson in the pecking order. If he stays they still have a group of forwards Wilson, Hartman, Mistele, Payne, Bratina, Vanderwiel and Sills. The first 4 forwards is a group to build around and with import slots available they can have a nice group. With D they can return Peters, Carrick, Curcuruto, and a selection of OAs Crombeen, Malysa etc.. Like you said Windsor can return 20 players but there is a litany of guys underachieving from Marchese, Clarke, Maletta, Bateman and Johnson and others such as Bilcke, Studnicka etc.. that are expendable. I haven't seen anything over the last couple years that leads me to believe Windsor can beat Plymouth currently as well as moving forward.
Rayzor
If u look at returning lineups for next yr the Spits lose 2 goals by E.Clark,the rest are able to come back,while the Whale lose 46 goals as Rackell,Noesen,Aleardi,Whaley,
Karlsson wont be there
Mistele and Hartman wont have Noesen and Rackell around to improve their offence
My feeling is that HoSang,Rychel,Vail,Clarke,Johnson,Marchese,Lorentz ,Maletta,Studnicka,Bilcke will provide more offence then,Muers,Wilson,Mistele,Hartman,Payne,Sills,Vand erwheil and 5 other forwards the Whales have to add
The loss of Noesen,Rakell and Aleardi next yr means the Whale better go for it now,next yr is too late based on projected returning players

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12-12-2012, 08:41 PM
  #102
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Another game, another blown 3rd period lead. This has happened way too much this season. It's time to blow this thing up, Vellucci.

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12-12-2012, 08:51 PM
  #103
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Whalers forward Stephan Noesen suspended 10 games for his charging penalty in the game vs Oshawa last saturday

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12-12-2012, 09:25 PM
  #104
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Another game, another blown 3rd period lead. This has happened way too much this season. It's time to blow this thing up, Vellucci.
You can't blow it up, there's still a lot of talent on the team. It's happened too much but it's about winning games after Christmas and in the new year. You have a possible 1st round pick in Hartman, Mistele a 2014 NHL pick for sure, Payne has improved leaps and bounds, Peters has had a good year as a 16 year old, Carrick has had a good rookie year. There's a core you can build around with this Plymouth team and the vets they have. Unless the atmosphere is toxic you can't blow it up. A chance to be a 2 seed with a favorable matchup against a 7th seed? You can't pass up that chance.

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12-13-2012, 06:59 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
You can't blow it up, there's still a lot of talent on the team. It's happened too much but it's about winning games after Christmas and in the new year. You have a possible 1st round pick in Hartman, Mistele a 2014 NHL pick for sure, Payne has improved leaps and bounds, Peters has had a good year as a 16 year old, Carrick has had a good rookie year. There's a core you can build around with this Plymouth team and the vets they have. Unless the atmosphere is toxic you can't blow it up. A chance to be a 2 seed with a favorable matchup against a 7th seed? You can't pass up that chance.
Exactly what I've been saying.

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12-13-2012, 07:05 AM
  #106
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This team just has to re focus itself after the world juniors. Vellucci is a great coach, he can get it done. IF the Whalers turn it up come early January all the talk of throwing this season away will subside. (I hope)

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12-13-2012, 08:26 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
You can't blow it up, there's still a lot of talent on the team. It's happened too much but it's about winning games after Christmas and in the new year. You have a possible 1st round pick in Hartman, Mistele a 2014 NHL pick for sure, Payne has improved leaps and bounds, Peters has had a good year as a 16 year old, Carrick has had a good rookie year. There's a core you can build around with this Plymouth team and the vets they have. Unless the atmosphere is toxic you can't blow it up. A chance to be a 2 seed with a favorable matchup against a 7th seed? You can't pass up that chance.
That is why I think the Whalers should sell some of their older players now -- to build around those younger players you mentioned. I just do not see this group doing anything come playoff time.

The more I think about it, though, the less likely I think that Vellucci will sell off any players. I cannot remember the last time he did this -- he even hung onto Seguin when Tyler was pretty much the entire offense. It's just not in Mike Vellucci's nature.

So, hopefully you guys are right and the team will turn things around after the holiday break. I am not confident it will happen, though. This is the most frustrating Plymouth team to watch in many years.

Regarding Noesen's suspension, does anyone know how that affects his status for the World Juniors? Is he still eligible, and if so, do the OHL games he misses while at the tournament still count towards his suspension?

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12-13-2012, 08:35 AM
  #108
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Regarding Noesen's suspension, does anyone know how that affects his status for the World Juniors? Is he still eligible, and if so, do the OHL games he misses while at the tournament still count towards his suspension?
It definitely does not affect his WJC status. He is able to play in the tournament regardless.

And according to the return date on the OHL site (Jan. 11), his suspension will tick down while he's away. Good deal for the Whale!

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12-13-2012, 08:48 AM
  #109
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That is why I think the Whalers should sell some of their older players now -- to build around those younger players you mentioned. I just do not see this group doing anything come playoff time.

The more I think about it, though, the less likely I think that Vellucci will sell off any players. I cannot remember the last time he did this -- he even hung onto Seguin when Tyler was pretty much the entire offense. It's just not in Mike Vellucci's nature.

So, hopefully you guys are right and the team will turn things around after the holiday break. I am not confident it will happen, though. This is the most frustrating Plymouth team to watch in many years.

Regarding Noesen's suspension, does anyone know how that affects his status for the World Juniors? Is he still eligible, and if so, do the OHL games he misses while at the tournament still count towards his suspension?
Re Noesen suspension the ohl website says eligible to return Jan 11 which means to games he is away count
As for the Whales going forward I dont think they will blow it not in Vellucci way of thinking,i do think they need help especially on the back end and in goal,though the 16 year old Nedjlkovic was a great pick in the 6th rd in this years draft appears to have a bright future
Whales are at a crossroads in my view,not shared by some,they dont have enough to win it all,they can try and load up and mortage a good part of their future,they can stand pat and hope for the best,they might grab 1st in the Div to get the 2nd seed,or not and finsh 5,6 or 7,or they can deal off knowing that next yr will be more of a down yr then the previous few and enhance the prospects for next yr
As I mentioned in a previous post,Noesen,Rackell and Aleardi wont be back 3 of their best 6 gone,quite a bite out of their lineup,Meurs,Wilson,Payne,Mistele and Hartman is a nice start,not alot after that,London,Guelph and Windsor just for starters will have most of their scorers back
It will be interesting what Vellucci does
My guess,he stands pat with the exception of tweaking his lineup,he wont go big and he wont blow it up,he will take a chance his lineup is good enough,and we know what happened last yr when he did the same thing

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12-13-2012, 09:06 AM
  #110
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Legend I still think Plymouth could swing a deal with a team like Sudbury to get a player like Leivo and Sefton for Vanderweil/Sills, Jones and a couple picks. You can roll with. I think you can move a D like Curcuruto and a few picks to a team like Mississauga for DeMelo. I can see Plymouth being busy because they do have 8 D on the roster who have shown they can play in this league and if Crombeen is back a guy like Curcuruto is expendable. By my count they have 6 or 7 cards at their disposal.

Leivo-Rakell-Noesen
Wilson-Hartman-Aleardi
Payne-Mistele-Meurs
Bratina-Whaley-Sills/Vanderweil

Levi-DeMelo
MacDonald-Carrick
Karlsson-Crombeen/Malysa/Peters

At the end of the day a team is going to get a couple bargains because there are more sellers than buyers and a team selling isn't going to want to be left holding the bag. That team right there would surely win the west division and could give Owen Sound a run. I don't think Plymouth will go for a big fish like Trocheck.

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12-13-2012, 11:43 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Legend I still think Plymouth could swing a deal with a team like Sudbury to get a player like Leivo and Sefton for Vanderweil/Sills, Jones and a couple picks. You can roll with. I think you can move a D like Curcuruto and a few picks to a team like Mississauga for DeMelo. I can see Plymouth being busy because they do have 8 D on the roster who have shown they can play in this league and if Crombeen is back a guy like Curcuruto is expendable. By my count they have 6 or 7 cards at their disposal.

Leivo-Rakell-Noesen
Wilson-Hartman-Aleardi
Payne-Mistele-Meurs
Bratina-Whaley-Sills/Vanderweil

Levi-DeMelo
MacDonald-Carrick
Karlsson-Crombeen/Malysa/Peters

At the end of the day a team is going to get a couple bargains because there are more sellers than buyers and a team selling isn't going to want to be left holding the bag. That team right there would surely win the west division and could give Owen Sound a run. I don't think Plymouth will go for a big fish like Trocheck.
Rayzor

I like the Demelo for Curcuruto deal proposal though it will hurt next yr not having him back but if u are going for it why not if i am the whales,as for the other deal I would offer Maletta and Bateman with no picks for Leivo and Sefton and hope they both come back as O/As,think my offer would be better,and with that deal Windsor could take the division
I dont think either team would beat London and Owen Sd
But going forward to next yr if Levio and Sefton are O/As it would enhance a teams opps to win greatly especially Windsor
Not sure Sudbury would be interested in Sills and Jones both 95 born who have little progression,Vanderweil might help get it done,still like Maletta and Bateman better

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12-13-2012, 11:54 AM
  #112
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At the end of the day a team is going to get a couple bargains because there are more sellers than buyers and a team selling isn't going to want to be left holding the bag.
I also think that Velluci owes it to the fans to make some moves and go for it for staying pat last year at the deadline and not making a single move. That was a huge mistake. Anything can happen in the playoffs and I am not suggesting it would have been enough to beat the Knights (but you never know) but I certainly think they would have got the extra gate cash by beating Kitchener.
Rayzor, good call....I see some good bargains available near the deadline.

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12-13-2012, 01:49 PM
  #113
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I also think that Velluci owes it to the fans to make some moves and go for it for staying pat last year at the deadline and not making a single move. That was a huge mistake. Anything can happen in the playoffs and I am not suggesting it would have been enough to beat the Knights (but you never know) but I certainly think they would have got the extra gate cash by beating Kitchener.
Rayzor, good call....I see some good bargains available near the deadline.
Not making any moves last year was tough to take as a fan, beause that team was so close to being a championship team. They had the goaltending and the front line scoring, and just needed some help at the blue line. This season, they need a lot more help, especially considering opposition this year in the Western Conference.

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12-13-2012, 03:42 PM
  #114
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Rayzor

I like the Demelo for Curcuruto deal proposal though it will hurt next yr not having him back but if u are going for it why not if i am the whales,as for the other deal I would offer Maletta and Bateman with no picks for Leivo and Sefton and hope they both come back as O/As,think my offer would be better,and with that deal Windsor could take the division
I dont think either team would beat London and Owen Sd
But going forward to next yr if Levio and Sefton are O/As it would enhance a teams opps to win greatly especially Windsor
Not sure Sudbury would be interested in Sills and Jones both 95 born who have little progression,Vanderweil might help get it done,still like Maletta and Bateman better
Sudbury may prefer a Maletta and Bateman but I don't think it's that clear cut. Bateman has been an absolute mess. Maletta has been awful as well right up there with Perklin and Bateman for worst 1st rounder in the 11 draft. You can make the case Vanderweil and his lack of production has to do with being behind a long list of good forwards, what's Maletta's excuse? Might be my pessimism with the Spits but if I was another GM the only players I would have interest in is Clarke and Johnson because I think either could be a good 3rd liner on a championship caliber team. Note this doesn't include Vail or Rychel. It includes guys like Clarke, Johnson, Maletta, Marchese, Bateman etc..

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12-15-2012, 10:04 AM
  #115
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After last nites 7-3 pounding from the Wolves and the Whales 6th straight loss though it is really 0-2-2-2-,as well in the last 10 they only have 3 wins tied for 2nd lowest in the league with Erie and Missy I have come to the conclusion that they should consider blowing things up
Do it before Niagara with their big 3 and other teams such as Pet,Ott,Sag,maybe SSM,though I doubt,strike while the iron is hot so to speak,move Noesen,Rackell,Aleardi,Levi,Macdonald,Corbin,shoul d have kept Eckblad instead of trading him to Saginaw,and finally consider trading Tom Wilson as well
Think of the return for a 18 year old power forward,before Ritchie,Janes, are dealt
Afterall as I mentioned before next yrs is bleak in my view,out of 24 players on the roster including 3 goalies 8 wont be back,with the expected O/As to be Meurs,Malysa and Croombeen,no way would I bring back a 20 year old goalie Mahalak,when I think Nedjlkovic is ready to play fulltime
Young players and draft picks could be had for all the players I mentioned,but Wilson would be the prize
Right now they are in trouble goal wise and on defence,when everybody is there the scoring is fine,and potentially dangerous,but realistically much like Windsor,SSM,Kitchener,Saginaw they cant hang with the big guys,most notably London,Owen Sd and probably Guelph
London,Guelph, and Owen Sd would salivate at the prospect of getting Wilson,especially when most consider he is not NHL ready for next yr,not totally my thinking,though I understand,besides the Capitals the might keep him anyways if they knew he was returning to Plymouth and a team that will struggle more then this year
Noesen would get alot of attention too,while Rackell and Aleardi might draw some too
I could toss in Curcuruto and Levi
Alot of talent could yield assets/players that would set the Whales better for the next 2 or 3 years
I know this might be alot for whales fans to digest not meant to be mean spirited at all,but the Whales are an old team by league stds,11 players 19 or older,London has 6,Windsor 4,Guelph 9,Owen Sd 7,Erie 5,SSM 6,Sag 7,so either blow it up or be real lousy for the next 2 or 3 years
The Whales have always been a real competitive team but never able to win the biggie ie Mem Cup
I think its prudent thinking it wont happen this year either
No doubt this lineup as it stands would make the playoffs,Erie and with Saginaw expected to move Trocheck and Ross,the teams I expect not to make the playoff,the whales could finish anywhere from 5th to 7th,if NHL comes back they have a shot at Sarnia,if not I dont know
I am not saying move everybody that I am suggesting but Wilson and Noesen certainly would draw suitors,and with whats coming back in trades,the talent that remains getting into the playoffs should still happen because of Erie and Sag
They would then battle Wds,SSM and maybe Kitchener for the final 4 spots
Time will tell

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12-15-2012, 03:10 PM
  #116
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^^
About the only things I disagree with, hockeyislegend11, are (1) that I am not sure Aleardi, Levi or MacDonald are worth trying to trade, and (2) that Meurs will be one of next year's OA's.

Aleardi, Levi and MacDonald are all OA's, so they will be tougher to deal, since it limits the available trade partners. If a decent return cannot be had, Plymouth may as well hang onto them.

As for Meurs, I think he will be in the AHL next season. He has played in the OHL long enough -- it's time for him to move on with his development, and I would expect Colorado will feel that same way about it. I would expect Malysa and Crombeen as two of the OA's, with the third spot remaining open for a potential acquisition -- or just left vacant all season.

Anyway, as I said in my last post, selling is not something that Vellucci normally does, so even though it may be the right thing to do, I have my doubts that it will happen.

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12-15-2012, 10:22 PM
  #117
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Whalers now winless in their last 7 as they drop a 2-0 game at Barrie
A disastraous road trip north dropping 3 games to SSM,Sudbury and the aforementioned
Barrie being outscored 13--6
I would think Vellucci has some thinking to do

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12-16-2012, 12:54 PM
  #118
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Any word on goalie Nedeljkovic? Is he ill, injured, or just being sat as to not damage the confidence of a 16-year old with the team playing so poorly?

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12-17-2012, 08:43 AM
  #119
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BTW, here is the answer to my question on the affect Noesen's suspension has on his status for the World Juniors. It appears that the IIHF honors league suspensions, so Noesen will probably not be playing for the U.S. team.

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012...d-junior-spot/

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12-17-2012, 01:33 PM
  #120
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It definitely does not affect his WJC status. He is able to play in the tournament regardless.

And according to the return date on the OHL site (Jan. 11), his suspension will tick down while he's away. Good deal for the Whale!
incorrect. Noesen is done for the WJC sadly. terrible break for that kid, and I simply despise this rule. what Noesen did in the OHL should stay in the OHL especially considering his previous history of never getting introuble. terrible.

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12-17-2012, 03:18 PM
  #121
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incorrect. Noesen is done for the WJC sadly. terrible break for that kid, and I simply despise this rule. what Noesen did in the OHL should stay in the OHL especially considering his previous history of never getting introuble. terrible.

Agreed!
Hopefully next time the "powers that be" in the OHL will drag their feet in handing down the suspension till after the WJHC.

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12-19-2012, 11:35 AM
  #122
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They need to figure out the goaltending position this year. Mahalak is brutal (his numbers do not do the proper justice, see him in person and he's shakey as can be) and their defense just doesn't cut it for me. In the games I've seen this year, the defense just does enough to barely get by and it's just not something you can build upon.

With the potential for a lot of players to opt to move on after the season.. mind you some big namers too.. it's time to maybe just pass the torch, blow it up a little and look for the future. I think it would be foolish to go all in and trade some young assets for some older players to make a push. So, i disagree with some of you about not blowing it up.

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12-20-2012, 11:41 AM
  #123
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Agreed!
Hopefully next time the "powers that be" in the OHL will drag their feet in handing down the suspension till after the WJHC.
The Q gave Jonathan Hubderdeau a 4 game suspension Dec 9th,his 4th game is tonight...lol
Making him eligible to play in the tournament and his suspension is over and he wasn't there for any of it as he was at the Canadian camp.

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12-20-2012, 10:23 PM
  #124
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As a new fan this is all a tough pill to swallow. I've read the advice carefully and the possibilities can be shocking to someone like myself who has grown attached to this team very quickly. I hate the thought of disbanding this crew but if that's truly best at this point, then I agree with the posters.

But I must say they are so close. There have been moments of greatness this 1st half, certain periods and some entire games, where these kids looked unreal. Huge physical play, courageous drives, sick passes, dangles, shots....even against London it was said that the game was very close.

The word here and around the rink is the same: Goaltending! If any trades happen I hope it's for a new goalie. I'm not a hater but as mentioned many times, if we had an elite goalie, who could save or change games...damn I think this conversation would be radically different.

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12-21-2012, 08:42 AM
  #125
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As a new fan this is all a tough pill to swallow. I've read the advice carefully and the possibilities can be shocking to someone like myself who has grown attached to this team very quickly. I hate the thought of disbanding this crew but if that's truly best at this point, then I agree with the posters.

But I must say they are so close. There have been moments of greatness this 1st half, certain periods and some entire games, where these kids looked unreal. Huge physical play, courageous drives, sick passes, dangles, shots....even against London it was said that the game was very close.

The word here and around the rink is the same: Goaltending! If any trades happen I hope it's for a new goalie. I'm not a hater but as mentioned many times, if we had an elite goalie, who could save or change games...damn I think this conversation would be radically different.
What you need to realize is that this team had an elite goaltender last year, as well as more front line scoring, and still laid an egg in the playoffs -- mostly due to poor defensive play.

This season, the scoring has been very inconsistent due to the losses of J.T. Miller, Mitchell Heard and Andy Bathgate. Only Ryan Hartman and Mistele have stepped in to help fill that void, but that has not been enough. The defense, meanwhile is not much better than last year's group. Add the miserable goaltending, and it's been a hot mess.

So, based on all that, I do not see this team being just an elite goaltender away from a championship. There is some impressive individual talent in Noesen, Rakell, Wilson and Hartman, but the team has never come together.

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