HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Calgary Flames
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Leland Irving, why doesn't he play with the Heat ??

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-06-2012, 12:35 PM
  #51
InfinityIggy
Inflammatory Poster
 
InfinityIggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,533
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Including the first goal when the defense gave the puck right to the point.
I'm not sure how he was reasonably expected to stop that one. The third goal was also quite a good shot.

The only one he really biffed was the 2nd goal.

InfinityIggy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 12:40 PM
  #52
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
I'm not sure how he was reasonably expected to stop that one. The third goal was also quite a good shot.

The only one he really biffed was the 2nd goal.
Yea he just missed it and you could see he thought he had to, o well it is only one game. He tends to fight the puck in low shot games which this was and it happened again luckily he will almost never have to worry about that on the Flames

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 12:43 PM
  #53
InfinityIggy
Inflammatory Poster
 
InfinityIggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,533
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Yea he just missed it and you could see he thought he had to, o well it is only one game. He tends to fight the puck in low shot games which this was and it happened again luckily he will almost never have to worry about that on the Flames
Yeah I kind of have noticed that with him too. I remember in that terrible Bruins game last year were the Flames defense had been holding the bruins back for a little bit, and all of a sudden the Bruins started firing from the top of the circles and Irving sort of fell apart, well the entire team did. Not a lot he could of done on some of the goals that game, but I just thought the same thing after that game.

Hopefully he can improve on that with some steady starts when the NHL resumes. I'm willing to bet he takes the backup role from Karlsson at training camp.

InfinityIggy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 12:46 PM
  #54
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Yeah I kind of have noticed that with him too. I remember in that terrible Bruins game last year were the Flames defense had been holding the bruins back for a little bit, and all of a sudden the Bruins started firing from the top of the circles and Irving sort of fell apart, well the entire team did. Not a lot he could of done on some of the goals that game, but I just thought the same thing after that game.

Hopefully he can improve on that with some steady starts when the NHL resumes. I'm willing to bet he takes the backup role from Karlsson at training camp.
As am I, I am really hoping that when/if he gets to the nhl Kipper and our goalie coach can try and teach him to stay calm in those situations.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 12:49 PM
  #55
InfinityIggy
Inflammatory Poster
 
InfinityIggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,533
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
As am I, I am really hoping that when/if he gets to the nhl Kipper and our goalie coach can try and teach him to stay calm in those situations.
Between Kipper and Malarchuk, I could probably learn to stop a couple shots.

Given how calm Kipper usually is, perfect fit I think.

InfinityIggy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 12:50 PM
  #56
FLAMESFAN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 2,457
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
I'm not sure how he was reasonably expected to stop that one. The third goal was also quite a good shot.

The only one he really biffed was the 2nd goal.

He had a clear view of the goals. You guys are too much, it's pretty obvious you will only see things one way. I can only take so much banging my head, and I think I've made my point enough.

FLAMESFAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 12:59 PM
  #57
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAMESFAN View Post
He had a clear view of the goals. You guys are too much, it's pretty obvious you will only see things one way. I can only take so much banging my head, and I think I've made my point enough.
Wow its like the Pot calling the Kettle black. We both said he had a terrible game but that isn't enough for you unless we say he is worthless and bad prospect. InfinityIggy and I both just said one of his weakness in his game that you get from watching not blaming him for only getting 1 win in 7 games, which by the way is how many Karlsson got in 9 games last year so why do you think he should be the backup?

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 01:05 PM
  #58
InfinityIggy
Inflammatory Poster
 
InfinityIggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,533
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAMESFAN View Post
He had a clear view of the goals. You guys are too much, it's pretty obvious you will only see things one way. I can only take so much banging my head, and I think I've made my point enough.
You're so far in denial its hilarious. Try responding to my response to you champ.

InfinityIggy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 02:20 PM
  #59
Double Dion
Jets fan 30/06/2013
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,255
vCash: 500
Any objective observer not wearing homer glasses is absolutely not happy with Irving's development. The club certainly isn't. Ward in an interview that's on fan960's website said the reason Taylor is playing is because he's the best goalie. He ranked them 1. Taylor 2. Brust 3. Irving.

Irving let's in more than 2 full goals per game than Brust and more than 1 more than Taylor. His save percentage is WAY worse (BB .958, DT .933, LI .884) and he's the only goalie we have below .500. He also sees lesser competition on top of the shoddier numbers. He's a hairs-breadth away from full bust status, no one can possibly be happy with him unless they actively cheer against the Flames...

Double Dion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 03:38 PM
  #60
FLAMESFAN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 2,457
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Any objective observer not wearing homer glasses is absolutely not happy with Irving's development. The club certainly isn't. Ward in an interview that's on fan960's website said the reason Taylor is playing is because he's the best goalie. He ranked them 1. Taylor 2. Brust 3. Irving.

Irving let's in more than 2 full goals per game than Brust and more than 1 more than Taylor. His save percentage is WAY worse (BB .958, DT .933, LI .884) and he's the only goalie we have below .500. He also sees lesser competition on top of the shoddier numbers. He's a hairs-breadth away from full bust status, no one can possibly be happy with him unless they actively cheer against the Flames...
Even worse - take a look at his stats in the AHL over the past year. He's got well over a 3.00 GAA and well under a .900 save%.
Yet the same fanboys keep bringing up the same excuses.

Funny part is they claim the sample size is too small to make any judgement, but go bananas over his small NHL sample size!

FLAMESFAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 04:53 PM
  #61
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Any objective observer not wearing homer glasses is absolutely not happy with Irving's development. The club certainly isn't. Ward in an interview that's on fan960's website said the reason Taylor is playing is because he's the best goalie. He ranked them 1. Taylor 2. Brust 3. Irving.

Irving let's in more than 2 full goals per game than Brust and more than 1 more than Taylor. His save percentage is WAY worse (BB .958, DT .933, LI .884) and he's the only goalie we have below .500. He also sees lesser competition on top of the shoddier numbers. He's a hairs-breadth away from full bust status, no one can possibly be happy with him unless they actively cheer against the Flames...
I would be upset if he hadn't played as well as he did in the NHL. To me that says his game is ready for the nhl, look at Holtby he had bad numbers in the ahl last year and stepped in and put up real good numbers in the nhl for 21 games. Do you think that the Washington Capitals care about his ahl numbers when he played as well as he did in the nhl. I am not saying that I think Irving is going to be as good as he is older and just isn't but I put alot more stalk in the games he played in the ahl the the last few in the AHL. Even Holtby's numbers have gone down since going back to the ahl (not as bad as Irving's but he has had more starts to even it out). I think you guys are overreacting to a small number of games.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 08:03 PM
  #62
StreakingRed
**Rebuild Ahead**
 
StreakingRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 10,817
vCash: 500
Personally, I don't think Irving will ever be a starter in the NHL. Hopefully I'm wrong. Sure, he showed better than Karlsson while he was up, but that's not saying much since Karlsson sucks.

StreakingRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 10:51 PM
  #63
Double Dion
Jets fan 30/06/2013
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I would be upset if he hadn't played as well as he did in the NHL. To me that says his game is ready for the nhl, look at Holtby he had bad numbers in the ahl last year and stepped in and put up real good numbers in the nhl for 21 games. Do you think that the Washington Capitals care about his ahl numbers when he played as well as he did in the nhl. I am not saying that I think Irving is going to be as good as he is older and just isn't but I put alot more stalk in the games he played in the ahl the the last few in the AHL. Even Holtby's numbers have gone down since going back to the ahl (not as bad as Irving's but he has had more starts to even it out). I think you guys are overreacting to a small number of games.
That's where I disagree with you. He had an average save percentage, poor GAA and poor record. He has almost identical numbers to Karlsson (worse gaa, slightly better save percentage) over a much smaller sample size. He's been given every opportunity to show his worth and has dropped the ball over and over again.

IMO, he wouldn't have been given his last contract if he hadn't been a former first rounder.

BTW, Holtby played in front of an awful defense in the AHL and still posted a .913 save percentage and 2.45 gaa to go along with his 14-4-3 record. His numbers were a lot better than Irving's and he's a year younger too.


Last edited by Double Dion: 12-06-2012 at 10:58 PM.
Double Dion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 11:02 PM
  #64
tyflames
Baertschi is God
 
tyflames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,593
vCash: 335
I for one am not happy with his development as he is a former first rounder 6 years ago and is a 3rd string on an AHL squad. But, that said, the goaltending for the heat is very strong and I believe given the right chance Irving can still be a good NHL goalie. I don't think he'll ever be an elite starter like kipper. His ceiling in my eyes is a 1B goaltender. But if progress isn't made soon he will be on the fringe of a bust. Who knows, we may not even see him in a flames jersey again if he walks at the end of this year and the season is lost.

tyflames is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:20 AM
  #65
HighLifeMan
HFB Partner
 
HighLifeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,922
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAMESFAN View Post
Even worse - take a look at his stats in the AHL over the past year. He's got well over a 3.00 GAA and well under a .900 save%.
Yet the same fanboys keep bringing up the same excuses.

Funny part is they claim the sample size is too small to make any judgement, but go bananas over his small NHL sample size!
Funny how his struggles coincide with lack of playing time eh?
The fact is he has been a starting goaltender in the WHL and AHL for well over seven years now. He is clearly struggling with the adjustment to very little playing time and his confidence is down in the gutters as a result. He still possesses the ability to be a very good goaltender at the NHL level, but it is simply up to him to get out of this funk. He may or may not have that in him, but I think it is early to write him of as a bust specifically after what he had shown last year.

He was leading the AHL in wins, and was top 10 in both GAA and SV% before his callup to the NHL last season. From there he would go on to steal the backup spot in Calgary from Karlsson and was looking more and more like the favourite to start the year on the big club as well.

HighLifeMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:50 AM
  #66
tmurfin
500g1000pts
 
tmurfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,311
vCash: 336
I'm still happy with Irving. He showed me last year that he is ready for the bigs, so I could care less about his lackluster stats as of late, he hasn't been given a chance. But hey, doubt him, it's alright, I'm sure you were the same guys saying Ortio was better.. You guys will see

tmurfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 01:41 AM
  #67
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
That's where I disagree with you. He had an average save percentage, poor GAA and poor record. He has almost identical numbers to Karlsson (worse gaa, slightly better save percentage) over a much smaller sample size. He's been given every opportunity to show his worth and has dropped the ball over and over again.

IMO, he wouldn't have been given his last contract if he hadn't been a former first rounder.

BTW, Holtby played in front of an awful defense in the AHL and still posted a .913 save percentage and 2.45 gaa to go along with his 14-4-3 record. His numbers were a lot better than Irving's and he's a year younger too.
In Karlsson's 7 games he had a 1-4-2 record with a GAA of 3.17 and a SV% .9, Irving in 7 had 1-3-3 GAA of 3.2 and a SV% of .912, Karlsson had 4 games under .9 SV% while Irving had 2 one being the Boston game where no one showed up, he had better or the same stats in the same sample size he won the backup job.

This is wrong last year he had a record of 20-15-2 before his call up with a GAA of 2.61 and a SV% of .906 while Irving had a record of 22-13-2 a GAA of 2.67 and a SV% of .902 for the whole year (before the call up he had .922 Sv% and 1.95 GAA) So no Holtby didn't have better numbers before his call.

Outside of the Boston game he had a SV% of .931 and a GAA of 2.5, those are very good numbers. Even with the Boston game Irving had a better SV% (the best stat to judge a goalie by as GAA and wins are more of a team stat) than Hiller, Bernier, Pavelec, Broduer, and many top goalie prospects like Bachman and Bobrosvky etc.

I don't know what you were expecting from Irving but average numbers from a rookie goalie are exactly what you should be expecting he was never seen to have the potential to be a top 10 goalie.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 02:01 AM
  #68
Calculon
unholy acting talent
 
Calculon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,642
vCash: 50
I think Irving definitely has what it takes to be a starter in the NHL.

The only problem here that I see is the bizarre insinuation that the Flames brass is somehow infallible when it comes to the development and handling of prospects when even a cursory glance at recent history shows the complete opposite.

The reality is, the Flames are closer to the Blue Jackets and Panthers of the league when it comes to getting the most out of their drafted players, as opposed to the Devils or Wings. If Irving was in any other developmental system, he'd be playing more games. That's not to say the process hasn't improved since the Sutters got the boot and Wiesbrod and Feaster were hired, but they're still more than capable of making mistakes, which they've already done their fair share of.

Also of significance is that idea that how a player performs in the AHL dictates how he'll do in the NHL, which is not always true. One would think fans would be able to realize the lessons from Brodie-recall his initial surprise performance at pre-season a couple of years ago which led this board to go over the top about his potential. He was sent down soon after and by most accounts, merely did okay in the AHL. Then, the following year, disappointed some in pre-season, which almost entirely reversed the popular opinion of him-the word 'bust' was thrown around there as well. Posters decided he needed to be left in the AHL until he got it together.

But thankfully, since the Flames no longer employed an 18th century dinosaur as their GM, Brodie was recalled when injuries struck the main roster. And as it turns out, he didn't look out of place at all as the fifth or sixth defensemen, and showed there's still a lot of room for growth.

Another example if you still need one, is Jimmy Howard of the Wings. They left in the minors for years, where his stats was less than stellar leading a lot of Wings fans to write him off. But Wings management are considered to be one of the best at developing prospects for a reason; they called him up anyway and actually give him a chance in the NHL because they had invested so much in his growth. Now he's their starting goaltender.

Not saying Irving is guaranteed to be a starter, but there's no question that of all the Flames goaltending prospects, he's the only one that's shown some level of aptitude at the NHL level.

Calculon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 08:22 AM
  #69
FLAMESFAN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 2,457
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
Funny how his struggles coincide with lack of playing time eh?
The fact is he has been a starting goaltender in the WHL and AHL for well over seven years now. He is clearly struggling with the adjustment to very little playing time and his confidence is down in the gutters as a result. He still possesses the ability to be a very good goaltender at the NHL level, but it is simply up to him to get out of this funk. He may or may not have that in him, but I think it is early to write him of as a bust specifically after what he had shown last year.

He was leading the AHL in wins, and was top 10 in both GAA and SV% before his callup to the NHL last season. From there he would go on to steal the backup spot in Calgary from Karlsson and was looking more and more like the favourite to start the year on the big club as well.
I agree with you 100%. For the umpteenth time, I wish he can get out of this. At least you and some others on here are willing to admit he is in a funk, while others just cannot.

This whole thing for me started back around June when in a seperate thread I merely asked the question why everyone had him penciled in as back up, as if Karlsson or whoever else were just afterthoughts. Everyone jumped down my throat for even considering that he might not outright win the backup job.
Since then there have been a couple more (including this one) threads about this, and since that time there has been more reason for concern. I refuse to award Irving anything, and I steadfastly maintain that we have to be open to other scenarios as backup. And for this I continue to have some all up in a hissy.

FLAMESFAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 01:10 PM
  #70
zrep
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Switzerland
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 29
vCash: 500
thanks a lot to everyone for your answers !¨

very interesting ...

zrep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 01:53 PM
  #71
FlamingTelepath
Registered User
 
FlamingTelepath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 394
vCash: 1383
He is increasingly looking like the odd man out. Rämö will be coming over next season and I guess Brossoit will join the Heat, possibly Ortio as well (he's playing lights out in Finland). And I don't believe the Kipper retirement talk for a second. In hindsight it would have been best for Irving to sign with a European team instead of playing one game a month in Abbotsford. I like the guy and it sucks to give up on a 1st rounder but I don't really see where he fits anymore.

FlamingTelepath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 02:02 PM
  #72
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingTelepath View Post
He is increasingly looking like the odd man out. Rämö will be coming over next season and I guess Brossoit will join the Heat, possibly Ortio as well (he's playing lights out in Finland). And I don't believe the Kipper retirement talk for a second. In hindsight it would have been best for Irving to sign with a European team instead of playing one game a month in Abbotsford. I like the guy and it sucks to give up on a 1st rounder but I don't really see where he fits anymore.
I wouldn't count Ortio or Brossoit as sure things as Ortio looked bad last time in the AHL and Brossoit is having a bad season in the whl. We also don't know if Ramo is coming over personally I would trade Kipper and run with Ramo/Irving/Karlsson next year.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 11:08 PM
  #73
tyflames
Baertschi is God
 
tyflames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,593
vCash: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I wouldn't count Ortio or Brossoit as sure things as Ortio looked bad last time in the AHL and Brossoit is having a bad season in the whl. We also don't know if Ramo is coming over personally I would trade Kipper and run with Ramo/Irving/Karlsson next year.
Ask the leafs how gambling on unproven goalies went.
Ya, no thanks. I'd like to see our franchise goalie kept around to at least put up a decent season.

tyflames is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 11:26 PM
  #74
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
Ask the leafs how gambling on unproven goalies went.
Ya, no thanks. I'd like to see our franchise goalie kept around to at least put up a decent season.
I understand what your saying but this team won't win a cup with or without Kipper I would rather take a gamble that we find a starter out of our goalies and get a young asset or two that just waste Kipper until he retires.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 11:33 PM
  #75
tyflames
Baertschi is God
 
tyflames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,593
vCash: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I understand what your saying but this team won't win a cup with or without Kipper I would rather take a gamble that we find a starter out of our goalies and get a young asset or two that just waste Kipper until he retires.
Understand that, but only 1 out of 30 teams will win a cup so who's to say kipper will win one no matter what. I would sooner see a competitive team put on the ice with a solid goaltender than a team gambling to try and find the right guy, when all three of them could falter.

tyflames is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:06 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.