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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIIII: "We're Close" "We're Not Close" Edition

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Old
12-17-2012, 12:49 PM
  #976
RGY
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This stuff really is depressing.

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12-17-2012, 12:53 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Jackpot View Post
Sad part is I miss the NHL less and less everyday... At this point they can all go pack sand ... To bad stupidity will prevail and fans will spend their hard earned money on the clowns again..
I miss it more and more. The fact that the Rangers have a team capable of competing makes it worse. Nothing beats the rush of the garden crowd. The chills you get when Amirante belts the anthem. The crowd shouting YEAH! in unison for a goal. Can't put a price on that.

This lockout needs to end.

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12-17-2012, 01:00 PM
  #978
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I miss it more and more. The fact that the Rangers have a team capable of competing makes it worse. Nothing beats the rush of the garden crowd. The chills you get when Amirante belts the anthem. The crowd shouting YEAH! in unison for a goal. Can't put a price on that.

This lockout needs to end.
Well put, couldn't agree more.

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12-17-2012, 01:17 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by CaptCally View Post
I miss it more and more. The fact that the Rangers have a team capable of competing makes it worse. Nothing beats the rush of the garden crowd. The chills you get when Amirante belts the anthem. The crowd shouting YEAH! in unison for a goal. Can't put a price on that.

This lockout needs to end.
I was just thinking the same thing. I am ready for hockey now. LGR!

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Old
12-17-2012, 01:17 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by CaptCally View Post
I miss it more and more. The fact that the Rangers have a team capable of competing makes it worse. Nothing beats the rush of the garden crowd. The chills you get when Amirante belts the anthem. The crowd shouting YEAH! in unison for a goal. Can't put a price on that.

This lockout needs to end.
Well said brother, neither side deserves us though.

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Old
12-17-2012, 01:20 PM
  #981
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I think the scary thing about the lockout is that I simply don't even care enough to know what's really on. I see an update on Yahoo now and then and know enough to blame the owners, but that's the extent of my knowledge and caring on the matter.

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12-17-2012, 01:22 PM
  #982
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This is just so frustrating. I'd say even much more than last time around. Back then they were fighting over real issues, cap or no cap, and it was more or less expected that the season would be lost.

But right now they are fighting over a couple of rather marginal details that aren't worth to lose a single game over, and it looks like they are the reason for another missed season. I mean, seriously? 5/7 or 8 years contract limit, that's the reason we will see no hockey for quite some time?

The fact that this dispute is so inapprehensive makes it so much worse than 2004. Everybody knew why that season was lost, but I think I will never get it this time around.

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Old
12-17-2012, 01:30 PM
  #983
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Sorry you guys feel that way, but watching the rich squabble about who should be getting richer off my dime is disgusting. First lockout was one thing, the second one, not so much... Big changes need made regarding the NHL as a whole, not just a temporary plug. Poorly run, bad economic decision making and greed doesn't win my fanhood. I'm done this year regardless, maybe next year I'll try to see if it recaptures my interest..

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12-17-2012, 01:32 PM
  #984
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http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/87...o-lockout-mess

Quote:
Looking back, the NHL made a terrible strategic mistake back in July with an original offer that asked for players to accept 43 percent of hockey-related revenue, down from the 57 percent it had in the previous deal. I cannot tell you how many level-headed NHL players -- not militants but rather moderates -- have told me repeatedly how that first offer from the NHL in July felt like a punch to the head and galvanized the player membership in a way in which NHLPA executive director Don Fehr likely could have never managed on his own.

That offer set the tone for the level of mistrust that has plagued what should have been a simpler negotiation, the players knowing deep down all along that they'd be accepting a 50-50 split of revenues.

On the other side of things, Fehr is also showing his true colors of late. The longtime baseball union leader seems hard to pin down. It just seems like whenever the league moves on what Fehr deemed a critical issue -- such as funding the "make-whole" provision and then upping it to $300 million -- the NHLPA boss finds new demands to throw the league's way, the latest being his desire to cap escrow as part of the transition rules.

All of which just feeds into the long-held criticism from NHL owners that Fehr can't close a deal.

Let's be clear here: The players have done most of the giving in this negotiation. There's no way you can argue otherwise. But as I've long maintained, that had to be the understood context of this negotiation from Day 1. After labor deals in the NFL and NBA last year in which players backed up financially, it was clear NHL players were going to be subject to the same end result. It's an industry standard you can't escape.
Quote:
Not having a 2012-13 season will irreparably damage the NHL industry.

And in a comment that I'm hearing more and more from people on the ownership side, I'm not sure the NHL returns with 30 teams on the other side of a lost season. Can the weaker markets truly survive this? That's damage both sides would feel.

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Old
12-17-2012, 01:40 PM
  #985
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The Knicks picked a perfect year to do amazing, lol.

They've made me forget about this whole lockout and everyone's ridiculous greed.

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Old
12-17-2012, 01:44 PM
  #986
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The NHL, as it stands, won't survive another lost season. All 30 teams will not be back. People will lose their employment, both staff and players. It is unfortunate because through this lockout, the two sides have been much, much closer as opposed to the last one. A deal is there this time. But the stubbornness of the two, the leader of each side wants to win now. It is not about salvaging a season, it has become about egos. It's a damn shame. Yes this is a business but also yes this is still just a game that entertains the many that were not blessed enough to play it themselves, or at the very least be paid to do so.

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Old
12-17-2012, 01:52 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
The NHL, as it stands, won't survive another lost season. All 30 teams will not be back. People will lose their employment, both staff and players. It is unfortunate because through this lockout, the two sides have been much, much closer as opposed to the last one. A deal is there this time. But the stubbornness of the two, the leader of each side wants to win now. It is not about salvaging a season, it has become about egos. It's a damn shame. Yes this is a business but also yes this is still just a game that entertains the many that were not blessed enough to play it themselves, or at the very least be paid to do so.
Part of me hopes that the season is lost and some franchises do have to fold. Maybe this crap will be taken a little more seriously the next time a CBA is up for renewal and we don't have to sit here watching both sides play chicken and end up crashing headlong into each other.

Anyways, here's a good summary of the whole lawsuits and disclaimer process

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411804

The big takeaway is that it's really uncertain what would happen if this drags out, and that it will take a long time if it drags out

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12-17-2012, 02:10 PM
  #988
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Anyways, here's a good summary of the whole lawsuits and disclaimer process

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411804

The big takeaway is that it's really uncertain what would happen if this drags out, and that it will take a long time if it drags out
Yup. Those are the two things I feel comfortable saying at this point. If this winds up in court it's anyone's best guess as to what ultimately happens, and it will take a looong time (likely going through a few appeals) before we find out.

A third of the players might as well sign their own pink slips. The league might as well fold a few teams. Frankly I can't believe we're on this precipice. Figure it out.

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Old
12-17-2012, 02:17 PM
  #989
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A third of the players might as well sign their own pink slips. The league might as well fold a few teams. Frankly I can't believe we're on this precipice. Figure it out.
Yup, that's what's ridiculous. Both sides are so worried about making another concession at this point that it currently appears that they'd rather to do irreparable harm to the NHL than to just make a couple of tweaks and get a deal done.

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12-17-2012, 02:51 PM
  #990
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At this point, the World is basically passing the NHL by. Hardly any mention of this lockout at all except for the cult fans of the sport. I'm sure they will get some of the casul fans to buy back in, but I really have to wonder how many fans leaguewide will renew thier season tickets at this point? After 23 years at the Garden my family is done. My brother who kept them going is finally throwing in the towel. I gave my seats up in 233 after 5 years in 2010, but split my brothers seats. Im not going to renew again. Not that i wont go to games, just wont renew seasons.

Im not really on either side of this argument. I've hated Gary Bettman from day 1. I guess he is to be held the most accountable for this as he is active commisoner. He's failed the fans of the sport time and again. But...I dont really feel that any of these players are underpaid either. Had the pleasure of watching the Royals play at Superior in KP the other day. There was some current players there and a former NY Ranger there as well. W/out mentioning names these guys are up in arms over the owners. According to them they are all grossly underpaid. The fuinny thing is, one of them has about 26 career goals over a 12 year career, and didnt score a point all of last season. With that said, he makes more than the president of the United Sates.

The fans, and employees that are out of work from this are the only two real losers here. In the case of the fans, who have zero say in anything it really hurts as we are the ones that fund this sport with our disposable incomes.

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Old
12-17-2012, 03:16 PM
  #991
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The NHL, as it stands, won't survive another lost season. All 30 teams will not be back. People will lose their employment, both staff and players. It is unfortunate because through this lockout, the two sides have been much, much closer as opposed to the last one. A deal is there this time. But the stubbornness of the two, the leader of each side wants to win now. It is not about salvaging a season, it has become about egos. It's a damn shame. Yes this is a business but also yes this is still just a game that entertains the many that were not blessed enough to play it themselves, or at the very least be paid to do so.
Theres no cognitive thinking involved here. The NHL and the PA made the calculated decision that fans are die-hards and will be back...that damage will be limited longterm. How else can you explain such an utter disregard for reaching a sensible conclusion to this lockout?

But there is trouble brewing. The league revenues that Bettman crowed about when it suited him were bolstered primarily by an abnormally strong Canadian dollar and the top 5 revenue producing teams in the NHL. Whats worse is there is a lot more entertainment out there today than there was in 2004-2005. Explosion in popularity of the NFL, streaming movies/etc, social media. Theres a lot more out there that makes missing the game a little less painful.

Personally, I was a 22 year old kid that just graduated college back in 04-05. I was lost without the NHL. I thought my world was ending. Now? Im a 30 year old with a wife and a job and, to be honest, I've been a better employee and a better husband not having to invest 3 hours every other night to a hockey game.

My point is that priorities change, and if the NHL continues to take that for granted, they'll be as good as dead.

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Old
12-17-2012, 03:16 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
The NHL, as it stands, won't survive another lost season. All 30 teams will not be back. People will lose their employment, both staff and players. It is unfortunate because through this lockout, the two sides have been much, much closer as opposed to the last one. A deal is there this time. But the stubbornness of the two, the leader of each side wants to win now. It is not about salvaging a season, it has become about egos. It's a damn shame. Yes this is a business but also yes this is still just a game that entertains the many that were not blessed enough to play it themselves, or at the very least be paid to do so.
It's unbelievable that this is all going on because if this does go through, the result will probably be just as ugly as you just described. It's amazing that no one from either side is stepping up and asking "what the **** is going on here?"

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12-17-2012, 03:24 PM
  #993
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It's unbelievable that this is all going on because if this does go through, the result will probably be just as ugly as you just described. It's amazing that no one from either side is stepping up and asking "what the **** is going on here?"
Roman Hamrlik did. An he was villified by the PA.

Its a mob mentality on both sides. You dont want to be the scab that breaks rank.

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12-17-2012, 03:38 PM
  #994
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The guys on XM were talking earlier about how this is no longer about money or financial issues as the sides are close in terms of money. This is now about ideology and power. If that is so, I don't see how this is going to get settled. It becomes similar to the last lockout when the big issue was also ideological (the salary cap).

Financial issues always can be compromised. Even personal hatreds can be put aside in the name of consensus. Ideological issues that become moral issues in the eyes of the opposing sides cannot.

If that is the case, there is no way out of this disaster and we are facing a nuclear winter that will destroy the NHL or, at minimum, set it back for a decade.

No matter what side we are on or if we are disgusted with both sides, this is incredibly sad.

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12-17-2012, 03:42 PM
  #995
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Part of me hopes that the season is lost and some franchises do have to fold.
Gotta think some owners feel the same way.

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12-17-2012, 04:01 PM
  #996
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Gotta think some owners feel the same way.
Eh, I mean I still think Dolan and the other high revenue teams would rather be playing hockey than dealing with this ****, but I guess they wouldn't be crying either if some of the negative revenue teams fell off the map.

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12-17-2012, 04:11 PM
  #997
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Eh, I mean I still think Dolan and the other high revenue teams would rather be playing hockey than dealing with this ****, but I guess they wouldn't be crying either if some of the negative revenue teams fell off the map.
How would the players feel about that?

Especially the ones who would have lost paychecks and would be completely losing their NHL roster spots? All over seemingly trivial things like 5+ year contracts and other issues they'd never be in consideration for in the first place?

Talk about getting completely ****ed over.

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12-17-2012, 05:13 PM
  #998
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How would the players feel about that?

Especially the ones who would have lost paychecks and would be completely losing their NHL roster spots? All over seemingly trivial things like 5+ year contracts and other issues they'd never be in consideration for in the first place?

Talk about getting completely ****ed over.
That's exactly why they should stop playing be fearless leader Fehr's rules and holding out for a "better" deal. Who is it better for? If you take the 5 year maximum now and play hockey or you hold out trying to get the NHL to cave on contract limits and two teams fold, losing 46+ players jobs, was the deal you held out for better for those 46+ players? Or was it better for the top 5% of the league who will actually EVER be offered a deal longer than 5 years in the first place? The whole thing is so logic deprived that I can't fathom it anymore.

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12-17-2012, 05:14 PM
  #999
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Roman Hamrlik did. An he was villified by the PA.

Its a mob mentality on both sides. You dont want to be the scab that breaks rank.
Dolan has said that too, and what happened? Bettman and Jacobs barred him from the bargaining room.

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Old
12-17-2012, 05:38 PM
  #1000
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Over 1000. Closed.

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