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Old
12-17-2012, 03:47 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
It's not hypocritical at all. Guerin still had something left in the tank and was a deadline deal on a young team that, at the time, could use some scoring punch and veteran leadership. This is a different team and different time. IMO, we don't need the leadership, nor do we really NEED the scoring. I'm all for a talented winger, I just would rather play the younger power forward prospect over the old veteran off a down season where it looked like he didn't have much left in the tank.
Fair points, but remember, we did re-sign Guerin after the cup run. I would be against signing Knuble if we wouldn't have done that. My point is that the Pens have done it before, so why can't they do it again? And if you didn't notice, teams were relatively quiet this offseason, so I'm not surprised that many of those players aren't signed yet. No one knows what the cap will do with the new CBA.

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12-17-2012, 03:51 PM
  #227
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If the season did start Jan 1, the Pens dont exactly have a ton of roster space

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
XXX - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Kennedy
Glass - Vitale - Adams

If the season is shot you can possibly take away Cooke & Adams. Dupuis would probably be the 1 for sure resigning.

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12-17-2012, 03:55 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Semin, Kostitsyn, Knuble, Rolston, Huselius, Blake, hell, even Sykora. Not the most desirable names, but there's nothing wrong with a 1 year deal with any of those guys.
Not addressing you personally necessarily, but I always find it ironic that one minute people want us to sign all these veteran scoring wingers (and I use the word "scoring" very loosely for most of those names), and the next minute everyone's complaining that the young guys never get a fair shake in the top 6. You can't have it both ways.

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12-17-2012, 03:58 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Fair points, but remember, we did re-sign Guerin after the cup run. I would be against signing Knuble if we wouldn't have done that. My point is that the Pens have done it before, so why can't they do it again? And if you didn't notice, teams were relatively quiet this offseason, so I'm not surprised that many of those players aren't signed yet. No one knows what the cap will do with the new CBA.
2 points:

1. You can't say "teams were relatively quiet this offseason" in reference to the CBA when you are the one who brought up this conversation wondering why Shero didn't get a winger for Crosby. Maybe Shero was quiet for the same reason. Or, more likely, nobody wanted those players. IMO, Shero either wanted the big fish or nobody because he didn't see the long term solution and would rather let some wingers in the organization get an opportunity.

2. I have no idea what you mean about being against signing Knuble if we didn't re-sign Guerin. Many posters on here loved Guerin but felt that the wheels fell off later in his final season. He was still a valuable player, but not one I'd sign as a UFA. That would be more evidence that we shouldn't take a chance at Knuble.

Anyway, agree to disagree on the veteran re-treads. It's been valuable in the past, but I'd rather let the kids battle it out and do a deadline deal if needed.

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12-17-2012, 03:58 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hottubber View Post
If the season did start Jan 1, the Pens dont exactly have a ton of roster space

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
XXX - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Kennedy
Glass - Vitale - Adams

If the season is shot you can possibly take away Cooke & Adams. Dupuis would probably be the 1 for sure resigning.
I think the forwards aren't an issue, it's the D that I'm worried about. You could put either Uher from WBS or Ovechkin along Neal and Malkin, because Malkin and Neal will still score. A lot. I wouldn't be surprised to see Tangradi or Jeffery there, because I don't think the Pens will be signing anyone else (even though they should). Our D right now is:

Letang-Despres
Martin-Orpik
Niskanen-Engelland
Lovejoy

It isn't bad, but it leaves a lot to be desired. I still think that DB will put Despres along Letang, since he said he would do that at the rookie camp this year.

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12-17-2012, 04:02 PM
  #231
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discussing free-agency in the prospects thread - my eyes are bleeding.

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12-17-2012, 04:03 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
discussing free-agency in the prospects thread - my eyes are bleeding.
good point. let's move this to the free agency thread.

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12-17-2012, 04:04 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
I think the forwards aren't an issue, it's the D that I'm worried about. You could put either Uher from WBS or Ovechkin along Neal and Malkin, because Malkin and Neal will still score. A lot. I wouldn't be surprised to see Tangradi or Jeffery there, because I don't think the Pens will be signing anyone else (even though they should). Our D right now is:

Letang-Despres
Martin-Orpik
Niskanen-Engelland
Lovejoy

It isn't bad, but it leaves a lot to be desired. I still think that DB will put Despres along Letang, since he said he would do that at the rookie camp this year.
If Martin can step up and be the d-man he was supposed to, a Letang-Martin pairing becomes your number 1 pairing. I think thats a lot to ask of Despres to jump in and play top pairing minutes.

Letang - Martin
Orpik - Nisky
Engelland - Despres/Bortuzzo/Strait

Lovejoy should never be in a pens uniform again

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Old
12-17-2012, 04:06 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
2 points:

1. You can't say "teams were relatively quiet this offseason" in reference to the CBA when you are the one who brought up this conversation wondering why Shero didn't get a winger for Crosby. Maybe Shero was quiet for the same reason. Or, more likely, nobody wanted those players. IMO, Shero either wanted the big fish or nobody because he didn't see the long term solution and would rather let some wingers in the organization get an opportunity.

2. I have no idea what you mean about being against signing Knuble if we didn't re-sign Guerin. Many posters on here loved Guerin but felt that the wheels fell off later in his final season. He was still a valuable player, but not one I'd sign as a UFA. That would be more evidence that we shouldn't take a chance at Knuble.

Anyway, agree to disagree on the veteran re-treads. It's been valuable in the past, but I'd rather let the kids battle it out and do a deadline deal if needed.
Agree to disagree on that then. If someone like Iginla or Clowe becomes available, I'd want the Pens to pounce on that immediately. Knuble wouldn't hurt, but I think we will be seeing Jeffery or Tangradi in the top-6 next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanMoranFanclub View Post
Not addressing you personally necessarily, but I always find it ironic that one minute people want us to sign all these veteran scoring wingers (and I use the word "scoring" very loosely for most of those names), and the next minute everyone's complaining that the young guys never get a fair shake in the top 6. You can't have it both ways.
The young forwards won't be ready this year, as in Bennett. There's nothing wrong with a 1-year deal to fill a roster spot currently open. I don't know how much I like Tangradi right now, time will tell. He is in a slump right now, so I don't know if he should be in the NHL next year yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hottubber View Post
If Martin can step up and be the d-man he was supposed to, a Letang-Martin pairing becomes your number 1 pairing. I think thats a lot to ask of Despres to jump in and play top pairing minutes.

Letang - Martin
Orpik - Nisky
Engelland - Despres/Bortuzzo/Strait

Lovejoy should never be in a pens uniform again
Don't need to say that again. Lovejoy is completely awful. That 3rd pair makes me cringe though. I'm fine with the top-4, but that 3rd pair is just... ew.

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12-17-2012, 05:16 PM
  #235
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We are at a point now in the organization where we can take our time with prospects. No reason to rush any of them until they prove that they are above AHL competition, and in their call-up's, that they are ready to be productive members of an NHL team. We have very little to lose. I think you're sort of seeing that with Harrington now. Had we been back 4-5 years, Harrington would more than likely be getting big mins in the AHL right now. Fact is, there's no space for him, and it doesn't necessarily hurt him keeping him in Jr.

The one and only guy who could be in the NHL before he's completely ready is Bennett, and that's mainly because I feel he can bring things to special teams that will help this team, even if his 5-on-5 play is lackluster while he gets used to the game.

I think in regards to Bennett, that is a point that gets lost a lot. People speak about how Crosby needs linemates, and it's a big point, but I think the biggest point is having a guy on that left wall who can pass and shoot well...a guy who has creativity, and poise where we can run the unit from both sides. Getting a powerplay in the 20% range will be huge for us.

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12-17-2012, 05:29 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
We are at a point now in the organization where we can take our time with prospects. No reason to rush any of them until they prove that they are above AHL competition, and in their call-up's, that they are ready to be productive members of an NHL team. We have very little to lose. I think you're sort of seeing that with Harrington now. Had we been back 4-5 years, Harrington would more than likely be getting big mins in the AHL right now. Fact is, there's no space for him, and it doesn't necessarily hurt him keeping him in Jr.

The one and only guy who could be in the NHL before he's completely ready is Bennett, and that's mainly because I feel he can bring things to special teams that will help this team, even if his 5-on-5 play is lackluster while he gets used to the game.

I think in regards to Bennett, that is a point that gets lost a lot. People speak about how Crosby needs linemates, and it's a big point, but I think the biggest point is having a guy on that left wall who can pass and shoot well...a guy who has creativity, and poise where we can run the unit from both sides. Getting a powerplay in the 20% range will be huge for us.
Harrington isn't allowed in the AHL, but I get what you are saying. I wouldn't be surprised if Bennett is on the NHL team next year, not because he should be there, but because we desperately need a replacement for Sully. Or what we could do is bring back Gonch and put Letang where Sully was.

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12-17-2012, 05:53 PM
  #237
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Rushing prospects almost never works out well and when it comes to defense we certainly have enough depth to prevent that from being an issue. At forward we're pretty much in the same position, though with a little more room for competition. At 'least' the lockout prevents the tricky though of rushing Bennett to the NHL this year, when he desperately needs to play the full season (remember he only played 47 games over two seasons a U Denver and the BCHL plays a 60 game schedule, so he's never played a real pro-style schedule before).

Guerin/Knuble/free agent talk should be kept to The Offseason Thread.

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Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 12-17-2012 at 06:03 PM. Reason: Further derailing this into free agent talk
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Old
12-17-2012, 05:55 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
I think the forwards aren't an issue, it's the D that I'm worried about. You could put either Uher from WBS or Ovechkin along Neal and Malkin, because Malkin and Neal will still score. A lot. I wouldn't be surprised to see Tangradi or Jeffery there, because I don't think the Pens will be signing anyone else (even though they should). Our D right now is:

Letang-Despres
Martin-Orpik
Niskanen-Engelland
Lovejoy

It isn't bad, but it leaves a lot to be desired. I still think that DB will put Despres along Letang, since he said he would do that at the rookie camp this year.
I really doubt very much that Despres will be up there if this season gets going. That would mean waiving Strait, Bortuzzo and Reese which is highly ulikely that all three would get waived. At this point I would think that Lovejoy would be waived before those three.

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Old
12-17-2012, 07:12 PM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
It's not hypocritical at all. Guerin still had something left in the tank and was a deadline deal on a young team that, at the time, could use some scoring punch and veteran leadership. This is a different team and different time. IMO, we don't need the leadership, nor do we really NEED the scoring. I'm all for a talented winger, I just would rather play the younger power forward prospect over the old veteran off a down season where it looked like he didn't have much left in the tank.

Also, there are MANY other teams that could use scoring wingers, yet the guys on your list weren't hot commodities by any stretch. Shouldn't that tell you something?
I don't think I can agree with that after last years home stretch.

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12-17-2012, 07:35 PM
  #240
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When you win, you have leadership, when you lose, it's lacking....unless you're Shane Doan and despite being on a ton of losing teams and acting like a ****** when you lose to the Kings, you are leadership incarnate.

It wasn't for a lack of leadership that MAF couldn't stop a beach ball in the playoffs.

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12-17-2012, 08:47 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Fair points, but remember, we did re-sign Guerin after the cup run. I would be against signing Knuble if we wouldn't have done that. My point is that the Pens have done it before, so why can't they do it again? And if you didn't notice, teams were relatively quiet this offseason, so I'm not surprised that many of those players aren't signed yet. No one knows what the cap will do with the new CBA.
we did it before and it did not work out well. Knuble has lost his wheels even more than Guerin had his last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Agree to disagree on that then. If someone like Iginla or Clowe becomes available, I'd want the Pens to pounce on that immediately. Knuble wouldn't hurt, but I think we will be seeing Jeffery or Tangradi in the top-6 next year.
Iginla or Clowe are completely different situations than Knuble. Iginla is just a much different player and is much better than Knuble. And Clowe is 30. Not quite ready for the wheels to fall off. Meanwhile, Knuble has already played a season without wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanMoranFanclub View Post
Not addressing you personally necessarily, but I always find it ironic that one minute people want us to sign all these veteran scoring wingers (and I use the word "scoring" very loosely for most of those names), and the next minute everyone's complaining that the young guys never get a fair shake in the top 6. You can't have it both ways.
This. So much this.

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12-17-2012, 09:20 PM
  #242
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Iginla or Clowe are completely different situations than Knuble. Iginla is just a much different player and is much better than Knuble. And Clowe is 30. Not quite ready for the wheels to fall off. Meanwhile, Knuble has already played a season without wheels.
I was not comparing either Iginla or Clowe to Knuble, I said that it wouldn't be a bad thing to pick up Knuble, but if Iginla or Clowe become available at the deadline, we should pounce on them. If we were to pick up either (preferably Clowe), I think that we would waive Knuble or have him in as a depth forward. And could you imagine the lines of:

Clowe-Crosby-Bennett
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

in a few years? That would be dirty, and as you said, since Clowe is only 30, that's entirely possible long-term. Too bad it won't happen

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12-17-2012, 09:38 PM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
I was not comparing either Iginla or Clowe to Knuble, I said that it wouldn't be a bad thing to pick up Knuble, but if Iginla or Clowe become available at the deadline, we should pounce on them. If we were to pick up either (preferably Clowe), I think that we would waive Knuble or have him in as a depth forward. And could you imagine the lines of:

Clowe-Crosby-Bennett
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

in a few years? That would be dirty, and as you said, since Clowe is only 30, that's entirely possible long-term. Too bad it won't happen
Kunitz won't be here in a few years. He's 33 right now.

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12-17-2012, 10:07 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
I was not comparing either Iginla or Clowe to Knuble, I said that it wouldn't be a bad thing to pick up Knuble, but if Iginla or Clowe become available at the deadline, we should pounce on them. If we were to pick up either (preferably Clowe), I think that we would waive Knuble or have him in as a depth forward. And could you imagine the lines of:

Clowe-Crosby-Bennett
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

in a few years? That would be dirty, and as you said, since Clowe is only 30, that's entirely possible long-term. Too bad it won't happen
I would like Clowe for sure. I don't think there's any reason to want Knuble though. He would be nothing but a roadblock for Tangradi. Except he isn't even good at this point, so I doubt he'd really play much anyway.

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12-17-2012, 11:19 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Our D right now is:

Letang-Despres
Martin-Orpik
Niskanen-Engelland
Lovejoy

It isn't bad, but it leaves a lot to be desired. I still think that DB will put Despres along Letang, since he said he would do that at the rookie camp this year.

You are misreprsenting, or misinterpreting, what Bylsma said. He said that he sees Despres as more of a big-bodies, physical type of Dman who could play the left side with a guy like Letang (editorial note: in the future, such as a replacement for Orpik). Orpik will get moved eventually, but it's not going to happen now, and Despres isn't ready. His play so far this year has proven that, and our other, more NHL ready prospects who are waiver eligable necessitate it.


Despres may one day make a good partner for Letang, but then again there's just as much of a possibility that Despres gets traded or out-played for that spot by guys like Dumoulin/Harrington/Maatta/Morrow or other guys. The Pens would not have gone so hard after Suter if they really believed that they had a top-pairing, NHL ready Dman in their prospect pool. Realize it.

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12-18-2012, 05:44 PM
  #246
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Kunitz won't be here in a few years. He's 33 right now.
So, what's your point? Age is just a number. If he can perform better than a 25 year old, there's no reason to not keep him. There are plenty of 35+ players that can still produce. In 2 years, when Kunitz would be 35, if we would sign Clowe, we would have the lines listed above. I would love those lines. However, that being said, I still think the Pens need another good forward prospect or 2. Because after Bennett, we don't really have anyone.

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12-18-2012, 06:37 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
You are misreprsenting, or misinterpreting, what Bylsma said. He said that he sees Despres as more of a big-bodies, physical type of Dman who could play the left side with a guy like Letang (editorial note: in the future, such as a replacement for Orpik). Orpik will get moved eventually, but it's not going to happen now, and Despres isn't ready. His play so far this year has proven that, and our other, more NHL ready prospects who are waiver eligable necessitate it.

Despres may one day make a good partner for Letang, but then again there's just as much of a possibility that Despres gets traded or out-played for that spot by guys like Dumoulin/Harrington/Maatta/Morrow or other guys. The Pens would not have gone so hard after Suter if they really believed that they had a top-pairing, NHL ready Dman in their prospect pool. Realize it.
I don't think he's misrepresenting or misinterpreting what Bylsma said at all:

Quote:
“Our guys, here in Pittsburgh, like Simon as a guy who make a pass and make a play,” Bylsma said. “I like him as a big-body guy who can defend. Putting him next to Kris you see a formidable pair.

“Both are guys who can defend and both are guys who make a play in every category of the game.”
http://www.timesonline.com/mobile/ar...91001990e.html

And:

http://insidepittsburghsports.com/st...ns-buzz/50791/

Those do not sound like longview, Orpik-replacement statements. I think Simon will get a real opportunity to play with Letang whenever the league starts up again.

That doesn't mean he'd be a bona-fide "top-pairing defenseman" as a rookie any more than Huskins was a top pairing defenseman when he was Pietrangelo's regular partner last year. It just means he'd play on the top pairing. Going after Suter means nothing, in that context.

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12-18-2012, 07:29 PM
  #248
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Did Russia announce their roster yet?

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12-18-2012, 07:33 PM
  #249
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Did Russia announce their roster yet?
Yes, Zoblin and Zadorov is on it.

http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/feature/?id=34459

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12-18-2012, 07:43 PM
  #250
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Yes, Zoblin and Zadorov is on it.

http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/feature/?id=34459
He means the final roster, methinks.

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