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A Jennings capable tandem in terms of $$$

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Old
12-17-2012, 01:46 PM
  #1
bluemandan
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A Jennings capable tandem in terms of $$$

What do you think is a reasonable amount of dollars to spend on a goalie tandem capable of competing for the Jennings year in and year out?

I'm asking because it seems like teams are willing to spend upwards of $8,000,000 on a tandem, but it seems like it is always highly skewed towards a 'starter'.

Why aren't more teams willing to sign two goalies for ~$3,500,000 a piece?

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12-17-2012, 02:33 PM
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Vankiller Whale
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Because your more likely to win a Jennings with a 6-7 million starter playing 70+ games and a 1 million backup than having two 3.5 million goalies split evenly. Assuming the salary reflects the calibre of goalie.

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12-17-2012, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Because your more likely to win a Jennings with a 6-7 million starter playing 70+ games and a 1 million backup than having two 3.5 million goalies split evenly. Assuming the salary reflects the calibre of goalie.
Explain last year? I don't know if that's necessarily true. Having two goalies that are both capable of consistently keeping you in games and going on protracted streaks of stellar performance would be better, to me, than one goalie who has to play every game with the occasional subpar break. Either way, I think, to win the Jennings, it has less to do with the quality of goaltending than the team around the goalie.

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12-17-2012, 02:42 PM
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Why not make it Cap percentage? I understand the money question but the past like 4 years have had all types of money spent on Jennings winners.

Vancouver probably spends around 10% of their cap on goaltending and won the Jennings two seasons ago

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12-17-2012, 03:17 PM
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I think the biggest issue with this plan comes during playoffs. Typically, teams employ one starting goaltender during the postseason. When you start to rise just one goalie come playoff time, you would prefer the $7M guy over either $3.5M guy (assuming salary correlates to talent).

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12-17-2012, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemandan View Post
What do you think is a reasonable amount of dollars to spend on a goalie tandem capable of competing for the Jennings year in and year out?

I'm asking because it seems like teams are willing to spend upwards of $8,000,000 on a tandem, but it seems like it is always highly skewed towards a 'starter'.

Why aren't more teams willing to sign two goalies for ~$3,500,000 a piece?
To do that, you need two of the right $3.5M goalies in the right system, and have the lesser one play far better than he ever did earlier in his career. Blues did that, but it's not an easy thing to find.

I think it's easier when you do what Vancouver did, and what Nashville has done a few times. Have a starter worth paying, then have young talented goalies develop and challenge for the starter position. Add in a strong defensive system and you can contend for the Jennings trophy.

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12-17-2012, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 96 View Post
I think the biggest issue with this plan comes during playoffs. Typically, teams employ one starting goaltender during the postseason. When you start to rise just one goalie come playoff time, you would prefer the $7M guy over either $3.5M guy (assuming salary correlates to talent).
except talent doesn't equal performance.

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12-17-2012, 03:30 PM
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There aren't even 30 starting goalies in the league, but teams need to somehow find two excellent ones, signed for submarket value (~$3.5M) and willing to play platoon?

That is a rare set or circumstances

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12-17-2012, 03:39 PM
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There aren't even 30 starting goalies in the league, but teams need to somehow find two excellent ones, signed for submarket value (~$3.5M) and willing to play platoon?

That is a rare set or circumstances
No, they don't have to be 'starters'. That is half the question. Would two 1b/2++ be better than a 1 and a 2? Would it be cheaper? Are there other advantages? (Yup, better depth incase one get injured.)

It really doesn't matter if you have the breakdown even or skewed towards one 'starter'. What I'm really concerned with is what if the market value, in terms of dollars, for a tandem that can compete for the Jennings year in and year out? $5M? $7M? $10M?

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12-17-2012, 06:12 PM
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As a GM, If winning the Jenning is your ultimate goal, then you are welcome to go for it! Sign two goalies for 3 500 000$, but if you really want to win the Jenning i would rather have two goalies at 6 000 000$ each.

I would even overpay in term of asset, to acquire a second elite goalie.

What about Rinne and Lundqvist on the same team ?


Last edited by palindrom: 12-18-2012 at 12:57 AM.
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12-17-2012, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
As a GM, If winning the Jenning is your ultimate goal, then you are welcome to go for it! Sign two goalies for 3 500 000$, but if you really want to win the Jenning i would rather have two goalie in for 6 000 000$ each.

I would even overpay in term of asset, to acquire a second elite goalie.

What about Rinne and Lundqvist on the same team ?
Well said.

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12-17-2012, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
As a GM, If winning the Jenning is your ultimate goal, then you are welcome to go for it! Sign two goalies for 3 500 000$, but if you really want to win the Jenning i would rather have two goalie in for 6 000 000$ each.

I would even overpay in term of asset, to acquire a second elite goalie.

What about Rinne and Lundqvist on the same team ?
But would that lead to a Jennings? I think it's hard because the Jennings has so many external factors. Would the fact that they aren't getting as many games hurt them? Would being named backup hurt the psyche of one? Who knows?

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12-17-2012, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
But would that lead to a Jennings? I think it's hard because the Jennings has so many external factors. Would the fact that they aren't getting as many games hurt them? Would being named backup hurt the psyche of one? Who knows?
Or maybe it would drive their competitive spirit to try to outperform the other?

Although I think that his point has nothing to do with that.

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12-17-2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Explain last year? I don't know if that's necessarily true. Having two goalies that are both capable of consistently keeping you in games and going on protracted streaks of stellar performance would be better, to me, than one goalie who has to play every game with the occasional subpar break. Either way, I think, to win the Jennings, it has less to do with the quality of goaltending than the team around the goalie.
One year out of the last how many?

Just because the formula worked last year doesn't mean it's the be all end all way to manage goaltending tandems.

Go through the list of Jennings trophy winners, you'll be hard pressed to find another tandem that split like Halak/Elliott barring injury to the starter.

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12-17-2012, 06:41 PM
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But would that lead to a Jennings? I think it's hard because the Jennings has so many external factors. Would the fact that they aren't getting as many games hurt them? Would being named backup hurt the psyche of one? Who knows?
I wonder if the jenning could be a team award instead of a goaltender award.

It seem to be a correlation between the number of shots against and the quality of them and the number of goals allowed. Also, the number of shoot against are mostly out of goalie control.

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12-17-2012, 06:46 PM
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Holtby/Neuvirth is going to be an interesting one in the future. Caps are "spending" a grand total $1,787,777 on goalies this lock-out of a season.

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12-17-2012, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
One year out of the last how many?

Just because the formula worked last year doesn't mean it's the be all end all way to manage goaltending tandems.

Go through the list of Jennings trophy winners, you'll be hard pressed to find another tandem that split like Halak/Elliott barring injury to the starter.
The scenario that I immediately thought about when I read this thread was Fernandez / Roloson in Minnesota in the early 2000s.

The were both playing fantastic, and splitting time fairly evenly, but that all fell apart because both wanted be starters of course.

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12-17-2012, 07:11 PM
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$9.33M? Luongo and Schneider.

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12-17-2012, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
One year out of the last how many?

Just because the formula worked last year doesn't mean it's the be all end all way to manage goaltending tandems.

Go through the list of Jennings trophy winners, you'll be hard pressed to find another tandem that split like Halak/Elliott barring injury to the starter.
The Jennings has been awarded 30 times. 18 of those have been tandems. Going back through the last 5 tandems, 3 of them started a fairly even amount of games.

11-12: Halak - 46 Elliott - 36
07-08: Osgood - 40 Hasek - 40
06-07: Backstrom - 36 Fernandez - 42


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12-17-2012, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I wonder if the jenning could be a team award instead of a goaltender award.

It seem to be a correlation between the number of shots against and the quality of them and the number of goals allowed. Also, the number of shoot against are mostly out of goalie control.
I agree with this.

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12-17-2012, 09:49 PM
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I think this situation rarely happens, how many teams can find a goalie like Halak on a good contract and then get lucky enough to find a FA like Elliott that comes in playing lights out? It will be interesting to see if both come back and play at the level they were last yr, if they do how long will they both be content with being a tandem instead of the go to guy?

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