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Pittsburgh - Detroit

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Old
12-17-2012, 09:29 PM
  #1
BigBenSF*
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Pittsburgh - Detroit



Brooks Orpik




Johan Franzen


It's obvious that Detroit needs a top 4 defender, and they might need it more than any other team in the game. As guys like Nyquist and Tatar climb up the ranks, Franzen becomes expendable. Detroit adds Orpik, a guy who can bang bodies with Kronwall on the first line. As for Pittsburgh, it's evident that the fans have been asking for a winger for Sid and Franzen may be the best one since Hossa. Morrow, Despres, and possibly Dumoulin will be in the league by next year and that pushes Orpik out of the picture.

Thoughts?

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Old
12-17-2012, 09:31 PM
  #2
P U L L H A R D
 
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Contracts aside, the value is there. Don't know if Pens fans want Franzen from now until the end of time, though.

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Old
12-17-2012, 09:39 PM
  #3
Violent By Design
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No interest in Franzen's contract.

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Old
12-17-2012, 09:39 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
No interest in Franzen's contract.
Likewise.

As a straight swap it's fair value, but the contract length is a deal killer in my eyes.

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Old
12-17-2012, 09:41 PM
  #5
Vankiller Whale
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HF is divided into two groups: Those who have a cap circumvention contract on their team, and those who do not.

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Old
12-17-2012, 09:44 PM
  #6
Nyquist
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If we're trading Franzen I'd want it to be for somebody better than Orpik (not saying in just a straight swap)

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Old
12-17-2012, 09:51 PM
  #7
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I don't see why Detroit gives up their best goal-scoring winger in a straight deal for a 32 year-old defenseman who is good defenively, but absolutely isn't worth a big 30-goal, 55-60 point winger.

Orpik certainly would be an attractive piece, but he alone isn't worth Franzen on player value and team needs. Nyquist or Brunner might - MIGHT - be able to fill Hudler's role. The Wings signed Samuelsson as well, and it looks like he'll be playing third-line; that's not a 50-point season like the 1st/2nd line years he's been playing. And the Wings needed to add a top-six forward on top of last season's roster as it stood; so if you assume last year's roster is fully retained, then the Wings have Dats, Z, Flip, Hudler, and Franzen. After that it's a question mark of "does Cleary recover?","is Nyquist legit? is Brunner legit? is Tatar legit?" etc. Samuelsson effectively replaced Hudler on this list (though he's after Franzen) but Sammy is getting up there in years and there's no guarantee he will keep on keeping on. So Detroit's top-six would be Dats, Z, Flip, Sammy, and two of Nyquist/Brunner/Tatar. Can't say I'm thrilled at the sound of it.

Especially if they push through that retirement cap hit thing (meaning that any extra years on Franzen's contract after retirement would still hit Detroit).

Pittsburgh absolutely needs to add to make this viable.

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Old
12-17-2012, 10:09 PM
  #8
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Being a fan of neither team i think this is almost a perfect trade. Franzen on the wing with either Sid or Gino could put him up to 40 goals in 4-5 yrs of the 8 left on his contract and Orpik definitely fills a big need for the wings. Franzen i think could reach higher potential but Orpik seems like good value for him.

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Old
12-17-2012, 10:12 PM
  #9
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Not to hate on Orpik, but if he's the best we can get for Franzen I would much rather just go with what we have.

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Old
12-17-2012, 10:17 PM
  #10
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
Not to hate on Orpik, but if he's the best we can get for Franzen I would much rather just go with what we have.
No offense, please do.

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Old
12-17-2012, 10:33 PM
  #11
Black Label
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As has already been said, Franzen's contract is a no-go.

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Old
12-17-2012, 11:01 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Black Label View Post
As has already been said, Franzen's contract is a no-go.
Really there is a chance if he went into early retirement it would count on the Wings and he is a 30 goal type guy at that number. I don't understand the fear on his contract it isn't like his cap number will be a complete deal breaker when he is older. Not to mention he really doesn't have as much milage on his body that people think. He isn't always healthy but that long stay in Europe means he didn't tax his body as much in his earlier years.

3.95 million isn't the same as eating some of these 6 or 7 million cap figures at the end of the deal.

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Old
12-17-2012, 11:09 PM
  #13
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I don't think people understand that Franzen's contract is actually really good. As a Hawks fan I love this deal because Detroit gets way easier to beat.

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Old
12-18-2012, 02:56 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I don't see why Detroit gives up their best goal-scoring winger in a straight deal for a 32 year-old defenseman who is good defenively, but absolutely isn't worth a big 30-goal, 55-60 point winger.
^basically this

Franzen may be inconsistent, but he is the Wings top goal scorer. If we have someone that can replace him, then sure, I'll be happy with that deal, but our top six currently consists of Dats, Z, Flip, Sammy, and possibly Bertuzzi. Of those 5 players, only Z and Flip scored over 20 goals last season. Nyquist and Brunner aren't proven enough yet for us to be confident enough to move ahead without Franzen.

I think the only scenario right now for us to move Franzen would be if he was part of a package for a #1D.

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Old
12-18-2012, 09:26 AM
  #15
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Meh. Orpik is getting old and wasn't as stellar last season.

Franzen is the only big body and pure shooter in our top6.

And PIT fans don't seem to be too happy about Franzen's contract though it really isn't that bad.

Would go for a younger guy instead.

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Old
12-18-2012, 10:41 AM
  #16
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Not interested in Franzen.

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Old
12-18-2012, 04:16 PM
  #17
Kimmo Therapy
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Hell I'd do it for sure. Orpik isn't the same and he's no longer needed in Pittsburgh in my opinion. Deryk Engelland brings everything that Orpik brings on a much cheaper contract. I'd swap Orpik for Franzen. It'd be a good chance to give our younger guys the ice time that they will soon deserve on D. I think the mule would be a good fit in our lineup.

Also seems like great value for both sides.

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Old
12-18-2012, 04:27 PM
  #18
The Nose
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Wings say no pretty easily.

Filppula - Datsyuk - Samuelsson
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Brunner

That's pretty ugly if you ask me.

What about Quincey for Orpik? Just off the top of my head, don't think the Penguins would do it but who knows.

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Old
12-18-2012, 04:44 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by anklebender View Post
Hell I'd do it for sure. Orpik isn't the same and he's no longer needed in Pittsburgh in my opinion. Deryk Engelland brings everything that Orpik brings on a much cheaper contract. I'd swap Orpik for Franzen. It'd be a good chance to give our younger guys the ice time that they will soon deserve on D. I think the mule would be a good fit in our lineup.

Also seems like great value for both sides.
So you say that he isn't the same and Engelland brings everything he does, then you say it's great value for both sides? If Orpik isn't the same player (I agree) now how does he still have the value of Franzen?

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Old
12-18-2012, 04:46 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Wings say no pretty easily.

Filppula - Datsyuk - Samuelsson
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Brunner

That's pretty ugly if you ask me.

What about Quincey for Orpik? Just off the top of my head, don't think the Penguins would do it but who knows.
Agreed. Maybe if Brunner and Nyquist have great rookie years he would be somewhat replaceable and then we can trade him for somebody like Orpik (hopefully better though).

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Old
12-18-2012, 06:47 PM
  #21
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Wings say no pretty easily.

Filppula - Datsyuk - Samuelsson
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Brunner

That's pretty ugly if you ask me.


What about Quincey for Orpik? Just off the top of my head, don't think the Penguins would do it but who knows.
Looks prettier than their current defense.

I'd do the deal from a Pittsburgh perspective.

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Old
12-18-2012, 09:09 PM
  #22
The Nose
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Looks prettier than their current defense.

I'd do the deal from a Pittsburgh perspective.
Orpik isn't going to make the defense look much prettier. If we're going to trade for a defenseman, my guess is it will be at least a #2 dman. But I don't see the Wings getting involved in any big trades other than shipping a few bottom sixers for picks.

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Old
12-18-2012, 09:40 PM
  #23
showtime8
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Outside perspective: value is really close.

A lot of people aren't going to be floored by Orpik's numbers, but he brings a lot more to a lineup. Tough to give up a guy like Franzen though from Detroits end. Detroit slightly loses in this deal.

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:19 AM
  #24
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I love how everybody hates Franzen's contract. $4M a year for a 30 goal scorer is pretty damn good value these days.

Then again maybe spending that money on Paul Martin is a better idea...

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:34 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
I love how everybody hates Franzen's contract. $4M a year for a 30 goal scorer is pretty damn good value these days.

Then again maybe spending that money on Paul Martin is a better idea...
Well people are worried/don't like the contract because of the length....not the 4M cap hit. There is no guarantee Franzen's game will be able to translate when he is on the last year of the contract. I mean just because he's big and Swedish does not make him Holmstrom who could still be really serviceable at his old age.

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