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Round 2, Vote 7 (HOH Top Goaltenders)

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Old
12-17-2012, 08:18 PM
  #101
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I really like Curtis Joseph'S candidature at this point.

Not MUCH recognition, but the guy was basically a Top-10 goalie, on an EXTREMELY consistent basis, year in year out.

And that's worth a lot in a 21 to 30 teams league.

One does not lead the NHL in career losses without being a damn good goalie
You guys are doing a good job of convincing me that Joseph should rank over Beezer, but I'm going to need more to put him on the same level as Barrasso (who I think is a very solid candidate for this round).

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12-17-2012, 08:25 PM
  #102
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Wait... WHAT?!
Referring only to the passage from the book.

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12-17-2012, 08:26 PM
  #103
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I would say Cujo was consistently a top-6 goalie for 10 straight seasons. The only one in which he wasn't, 1996, I'd say he was still "regarded" as one - along with Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour and at that particular moment, Guy Hebert. (or maybe Puppa or Osgood)

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12-17-2012, 08:29 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
And yet he was virtually statistically inseparable at the top of the NHL stats lists after leaving the OCHL from Benedict, Vezina, and Thompson who have already garnered significant voting support.
The problem with this statement, and it's a very big one, is that it is using a completely useless stat to make a case.

The correllation between GAA and actual perception as a player pretty much doesn't exist for players in that era - see Roy Worters and George Hainsworth.

Connell's voting record is pretty poor for a player available now. Lehman's isn't. Simple as that.

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12-17-2012, 08:33 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
The problem with this statement, and it's a very big one, is that it is using a completely useless stat to make a case.

The correllation between GAA and actual perception as a player pretty much doesn't exist for players in that era - see Roy Worters and George Hainsworth.

Connell's voting record is pretty poor for a player available now. Lehman's isn't. Simple as that.
Keep in mind too that Connell replaced Benedict on the stacked and defensive-minded Ottawa Senators, so anything said about Benedict's GAAs not necessarily reflecting his own personal play is also true about Connell.

After thinking about Connell's candidacy some more, I'm thinking he can probably join Thomas and Cheevers in my "not yet" pile. The one thing that was making me consider him now was his early HHOF entry, but his illness is an adequate explanation for that.

(Also, if anyone is interested in talking about a player already added. there are 2 choices - the results thread, and the main stickied thread. This thread is not an option. Obviously, you're allowed to talk about a player added already as a comparison to a guy up this round, but not as a subject on his own).


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 12-17-2012 at 08:41 PM.
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Old
12-17-2012, 08:34 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post

- I ranked Lumley low because I'm convinced he was a serious case of catching lightning in a bottle ALL THE WHILE being in a very favorable context to do so AND that I'm pretty convinced he was, for most part of his career, the 5th best goalie in the league. What tipped the balance between Lumley and Vachon is how they did in a non-favorable context.
I would love to see how you substantiate this statement. In 53-54 and 54-55 he was a first AS and finished 5 and 2nd in Hart voting so he was certainly better than 5th best in those seasons. In 45-46 he finished 3rd in AS votes and 4th in Hart voting so again he was definitely better than 5th best in that season. From 46 thru 53 it is hard to determine goalie rankings by AS votes as we don't seem to have them past 2nd or 3rd for those years. I would argue that Lumley was well thought of as a Hawk in 50-51 and 51-52 as Toronto thought enough of him to trade 4 pretty good players to obtain Lumley and it looks like a pretty good move on their part.

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12-17-2012, 08:40 PM
  #107
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Joseph above Beezer, eh? There's a lot of Habs fan in me that kinda laughs out loud at the thought, but I'm going to have to see what everyone comes up with. Does Potvin really have enough aggregate "on average" stuff to pass the Beeze? VanBiesbrouck was "best" in the league in his second season, got better over time, imo, and simply started facing even better competition as some of the famous names from the earliest voting came to the fore. Still managed a 2nd all-star nomination almost a decade later, though, to go with his 1st team from '85/86.

Joseph... a bit of top-10 statistical candy, a lot of mid-length playoff runs making up ground on Vanbiesbrouck's number of short trips between his '86 and '96 campaigns (as probably the best player of the era on the expansion Panthers, mind you), maybe some glowing Canadian narrative? Playing against pretty much the same monster names from the top 10 (over what, more than a decade?), did Potvin really achieve "greater heights"? I'm assuming it's the homer in me that finds it counter-intuitive (becoming one of my fave words in these threads, lol), but then again I did see the entire time for myself.

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12-17-2012, 08:44 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
The problem with this statement, and it's a very big one, is that it is using a completely useless stat to make a case.

The correllation between GAA and actual perception as a player pretty much doesn't exist for players in that era - see Roy Worters and George Hainsworth.

Connell's voting record is pretty poor for a player available now. Lehman's isn't. Simple as that.
Against whom, is obviously my first concern. Under what "conditions", is obviously another. I still think they're reasonable concerns, but I wouldn't expect the majority to agree with me - particularly on the subject of weighing it as one among numerous factors.

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12-17-2012, 08:48 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I'm having a difficult time placing Lumley. I'd appreciate hearing some arguments both for and against him.
One of my toughest ones as well.

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12-17-2012, 09:13 PM
  #110
Rob Scuderi
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Info pulled from goalie spreadsheet floating around. 1953 is the first season included so Lumley loses a number of seasons. Also 1500 minutes was used as the minimum when determining the league ranks.

Harry Lumley
YearTeamGPSave% (League Average)League RankGAALeague RankAll-Star Team Spots
1953TOR70 GP.912% (.916%)5/62.39 GAA3/6 
1954TOR69 GP.923% (.919%)2/61.86 GAA1/61st Team
1955TOR69 GP.929% (.915%)1/71.94 GAA1/71st Team
1956TOR59 GP.905% (.916%)6/62.70 GAA4/6 
1958BOS24 GP.910% (.909%) 2.92 GAA  
1959BOS11 GP.923% (.905%) 2.45 GAA  
1960BOS42 GP.894% (.906%)7/73.50 GAA6/7 
1957 was spent in the AHL

Gump Worsley
YearTeamGPSave% (League Average)League RankGAALeague RankAll-Star Team Spots
1953NYR50 GP.901% (.916%)6/63.06 GAA6/6 
1955NYR65 GP.915% (.915%)4/73.04 GAA6/7 
1956NYR70 GP.920% (.916%)3/62.90 GAA5/6"3rd"
1957NYR68 GP.904% (.910%)5/73.24 GAA7/7 
1958NYR37 GP.929% (.909%)1/72.32 GAA2/7 
1959NYR67 GP.905% (.905%)3/73.07 GAA5/7 
1960NYR39 GP.897% (.906%)T5/73.57 GAA7/7 
1961NYR59 GP.912% (.907%)4/83.33 GAA7/8"3rd"
1962NYR60 GP.912% (.905%)4/62.96 GAA4/6 
1963NYR67 GP.914% (.907%)2/63.30 GAA5/6 
1964MON8 GP.897% (.917%) 2.97 GAA  
1965MON19 GP.906% (.907%) 2.78 GAA  
1966MON51 GP.923% (.904%)2/92.32 GAA1/92nd Team
1967MON18 GP.900% (.907%) 3.18 GAA  
1968MON40 GP.922% (.910%)5/191.98 GAA1/191st Team
1969MON30 GP.920% (.908%)4/162.25 GAA3/16 
1970MIN8 GP.932% (.912%) 2.65 GAA  
1971MIN24 GP.920% (.903%) 2.50 GAA  
1972MIN34 GP.934% (.902%)T1/232.12 GAA3/23 
1973MIN12 GP.906% (.896%) 2.89 GAA  
1974MIN29 GP.901% (.896%)9/213.22 GAA15/21 
1954 spent in minor league (WHL), Spent parts of '58, '60, '64, '65 seasons in AHL; named AHL First All-Star in 1964

Gerry Cheevers
YearTeamGPSave% (League Average)League RankGAALeague RankAll-Star Team Spots
1962BOS2.905 (.905) 3.50  
1966BOS7.859 (.904) 4.94  
1967BOS22.896 (.907) 3.33  
1968BOS47.907 (.910)12/192.8312/19 
1969BOS52.912 (.908)T7/162.80T7/16 
1970BOS41.919 (.912)T5/152.728/15 
1971BOS40.918 (.903)5/222.7310/22 
1972BOS41.920 (.902)4/232.506/23 
1976BOS15.902 (.890) 2.73  
1977BOS45.882 (.891)T20/313.0411/31 
1973-1975 spent in WHA; Cheevers once named Best Goalie ('73), First All-Star ('73), twice Second All-Star ('74-'75)

Eddie Giacomin
YearTeamGPSave% (League Average)League RankGAALeague RankAll-Star Team Spots
1966NYR34 GP.880% (.904%)9/93.70 GAA7/9 
1967NYR68 GP.917% (.907%)3/62.61 GAA4/61st Team
1968NYR66 GP.915% (.910%)6/192.44 GAA5/192nd Team
1969NYR70 GP.912% (.908%)T7/162.55 GAA5/162nd Team
1970NYR70 GP.916% (.912%)8/152.36 GAA4/152nd Team
1971NYR45 GP.922% (.903%)2/222.16 GAA2/221st Team
1972NYR44 GP.900% (.902%)13/232.70 GAA11/23 
1973NYR43 GP.899% (.896%)T13/232.91 GAAT10/23 
1974NYR56 GP.890% (.896%)17/213.07 GAAT9/21 
1975NYR37 GP.870% (.890%)23/253.48 GAA15/25 
1976DET29 GP.890% (.890%)T10/263.45 GAAT15/26 
1977DET33 GP.871% (.891%)T27/313.58 GAA20/31 

Rogie Vachon
YearTeamGPSave% (League Average)League RankGAALeague RankAll-Star Team Spots
1967MON19 GP.915% (.907%) 2.48 GAA  
1968MON39 GP.913% (.910%)T7/192.59 GAAT6/19 
1969MON36 GP.902% (.908%)14/162.87 GAA9/16 
1970MON64 GP.917% (.912%)7/152.63 GAA6/15 
1971MON47 GP.914% (.903%)9/222.65 GAA7/22 
1972LAK28 GP.884 % (.902%)22/234.05 GAA23/23 
1973LAK53 GP.899% (.896%)T13/232.85 GAAT7/23 
1974LAK65 GP.904% (.896%)6/212.80 GAA6/21 
1975LAK54 GP.926% (.890%)1/252.24 GAA2/252nd Team
1976LAK51 GP.891% (.890%)9/263.14 GAA9/26 
1977LAK68 GP.903% (.891%)8/312.71 GAA7/312nd Team
1978LAK70 GP.891% (.889%)12/252.86 GAA11/25 
1979DET50 GP.863% (.883%)28/293.90 GAA25/29 
1980DET59 GP.873% (.882%)24/293.61 GAA19/29 
1981BOS53 GP.863% (.876%)28/313.34 GAAT14/31 
1982BOS38 GP.859% (.873%)31/333.66 GAA10/33 


Last edited by Rob Scuderi: 12-17-2012 at 10:53 PM.
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Old
12-17-2012, 09:16 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by pappyline View Post
I would love to see how you substantiate this statement. In 53-54 and 54-55 he was a first AS and finished 5 and 2nd in Hart voting so he was certainly better than 5th best in those seasons. In 45-46 he finished 3rd in AS votes and 4th in Hart voting so again he was definitely better than 5th best in that season. From 46 thru 53 it is hard to determine goalie rankings by AS votes as we don't seem to have them past 2nd or 3rd for those years. I would argue that Lumley was well thought of as a Hawk in 50-51 and 51-52 as Toronto thought enough of him to trade 4 pretty good players to obtain Lumley and it looks like a pretty good move on their part.
45 to 52.

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12-17-2012, 09:44 PM
  #112
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Here's how I'm looking at things going into this round (players listed next to each other are in alphabetical order). Comments appreciated...

1. Fuhr - small chance of changing my mind here
2/3. Holmes/Worsley - pretty sure they're gonna make my top 4, but not absolute locks
4-7. Barrasso/Lumley/Rayner/Vachon - I see this as the next tier, but I am very unsure of the order within the tier. I'd like to focus most on learning about these guys...Barrasso is the only one I feel like I have a very strong knowledge of.
8-10. Beezer/Giacomin/Joseph - think it's a round too early for any of them
11-13. Cheevers/Connell/Thomas - 2 rounds or more too early for them


Last edited by Hawkey Town 18: 12-17-2012 at 09:49 PM.
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Old
12-17-2012, 10:02 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Here's how I'm looking at things going into this round (players listed next to each other are in alphabetical order). Comments appreciated...

1. Fuhr - small chance of changing my mind here
2/3. Holmes/Worsley - pretty sure they're gonna make my top 4, but not absolute locks
4-7. Barrasso/Lumley/Rayner/Vachon - I see this as the next tier, but I am very unsure of the order within the tier. I'd like to focus most on learning about these guys...Barrasso is the only one I feel like I have a very strong knowledge of.
8-10. Beezer/Giacomin/Joseph - think it's a round too early for any of them
11-13. Cheevers/Connell/Thomas - 2 rounds or more too early for them
For what its worth, Vachon & Joseph most certainly stole more games for their teams than anyone else in this group.

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12-17-2012, 10:04 PM
  #114
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Would anyone be interested in doing a Lumley vs Rayner comparison?

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12-17-2012, 10:19 PM
  #115
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For what its worth, Vachon & Joseph most certainly stole more games for their teams than anyone else in this group.
I'll add Chuck Rayner and, to a lesser extent, Alec Connel to that list.

People tend to forget that the Sens were on the decline when Connel joined, and that he played with some really average squads later on in his career. For odd reasons, 32-33 seems to be an EXCELLENT season for Connel, I mean, if one gives any importance to the defensive squad of a team.

And I think it's quite obvious for Rayner.

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12-17-2012, 10:46 PM
  #116
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Alec Connell

Under appreciated, very effective during the playoffs:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...conneal01.html

Excellent leading the Maroons to the 1935 SC. Also was a team captain in Ottawa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Connell

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12-17-2012, 11:08 PM
  #117
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I would argue that Lumley was well thought of as a Hawk in 50-51 and 51-52 as Toronto thought enough of him to trade 4 pretty good players to obtain Lumley and it looks like a pretty good move on their part.
Ya, Al Rollins & Gus Mortson who were both workhorses for Chicago for several seasons thereafter, while Cal Gardner I believe stuck around for one season, and Hannigan, well, he never did play for the Hawks, either a career minor leaguer or Senior player. Lumley I have no memory of whatsoever, before my time, but based on what Ive read, pieced together, he appeared ascendant in Detroit early but was upstaged by Sawchuk, and from there began a journey, a sojourn of sorts, playing for 5 of the 06 teams during his 16 or 17yr career. Stylistically, no idea what to make of him, however, he simply mustve benefited from Toronto's defensive game.... highly thought of by Smythe, member of the HHOF.


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12-17-2012, 11:22 PM
  #118
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Rayner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Would anyone be interested in doing a Lumley vs Rayner comparison?
It's a little tough because Lumley is the one pre-1950 guy who nobody ended up profiling for for some reason. So info on him is limited unless someone wants to dig.

One thing that impresses me a lot about Chuck Rayner is that he consistently got recognition from somewhere:
  • 1942: The only goalie other than Frank Brimsek and Turk Broda to get All Star votes (at the age of 22)
  • Lost 1943, 1944, and 1945 (ages 23-25) to World War 2.
  • 1946: No leaguewide recognition but voted NY Rangers MVP
  • 1947: 4th in All Star voting behind Durnan, Brimsek, and Broda. 4th in Hart voting; voted NY Rangers MVP
  • 1948: injured
  • 1949: 7th in Hart voting; 2nd Team All Star (behind Durnan over Broda), voted NY Rangers co-MVP
  • 1950: Won the Hart Trophy; 2nd Team All Star (behind Durnan over Broda)
  • 1951: 2nd Team All Star (behind Sawchuk over Rollins)

In every healthy year he played from 1942-1951, Rayner finished top 3 in league All Star voting or was named the MVP of his (weak) team. Rayner also played in the NHL All Star Game on merit 4 straight years from 1949-1952. He won the Hart Trophy in 1950 (but was 2nd Team All Star that season).

This is how Rayner's career ended due to injury at the age of 32:

Quote:
During the 1951-52 season, ‘Bonnie Prince Charlie,’ as he had been tagged by the press while a rookie, suffered a serious knee injury, and was never quite the same afterwards. He played just 20 games the next season, but watched while Gump Worsley emerged as the Rangers goaltender. Worsley eventually won the Calder Trophy as the NHL’s rookie of the year. Those 20 games were the final contests in Rayner’s fine NHL career. "I would have loved to be on a Stanley Cup team, but I have no complaints. I feel the Rangers treated me right and I don’t have anything to complain about," smiled Rayner.
http://www.hhof.com/htmlSpotlight/sp...ep197302.shtml

Not only did Rayner win the Hart in 1950, but he played well enough to be awarded the Retro Smythe in a losing cause (against Lumley's stacked Red Wings Team):

Quote:
Even more impressive was the announcement that Chuck Rayner was the Hart Trophy recipient as the NHL’s most valuable player in 1949-50. Chuck posted a 2.62 goals-against average, helping New York win 28 games while losing 30 and tying 11. The Rangers snuck into the playoffs that season, and to the astonishment of hockey fans everywhere, faced the Red Wings in the Stanley Cup finals, although ultimately losing the ultimate hockey award to Detroit. The New York Daily News boasted about Charlie Rayner, stating ‘He is to the Blueshirts what DiMag (Joe DiMaggio) is to the Yanks.’
Apparently Bower and Worters both considered Rayner a mentor? Glenn Hall also had some pretty hefty praise for Rayner:

“Glenn Hall ranks Rayner second, behind Sawchuk, in his assessment of historic talent... Rayner was a star, if not in the record books, then certainly among his peers...” -A Breed Apart


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 12-18-2012 at 12:29 AM.
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12-17-2012, 11:54 PM
  #119
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It's a little tough because Lumley is the one pre-1950 guy who nobody ended up profiling for for some reason. So info on him is limited unless someone wants to dig.
Toss me a shovel and point me in the right direction. I have had too much time on my hands

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12-18-2012, 12:02 AM
  #120
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Lumley vs Rayner

Briefly to compare, here's Lumley:

1st off an easy comp: Rayner played in the ASG on merit in 1949, 1950, 1951, and 1952. Lumley did in 1954 and 1955.

Now on to Lumley:

Detroit

1944: played some games at 17 years old due to the War
1945: first full season during the War. Recieved 2 votes for the All Star team; finished behind Durnan, Karakas, and McCool in McCool's only full season
1946: 3rd in All Star voting behind Durnan and Brimsek (who played 2/3 of the season). Competition was still weak, as Broda among others barely played. Lumley was also 4th in Hart voting, however
1947: Finished behind Durnan, Brimsek, Broda, and Rayner in All Star voting.
1948: 4th in AS voting behind Broda, Brimsek, and Durnan. Rayner got no votes.
1949: no votes (Rayner was 2nd Team AS)
1950: no votes (Rayner was 2nd Team AS)

Chicago
1951: Not top 3 (Rayner was 2nd Team AS)
1952: Not top 2 (Rayner was in AS Game on Merit, Lumley wasn't)

Toronto
1953: we only have top 2 and it doesn't include Lumley
1954: 1st Team All Star; 5th in Hart voting (2nd among goalies)
1955: 1st Team All Star; 2nd in Hart voting
1956: Not top 4

Boston
1958: Not top 2
1959: Not top 2
1960: Not top 3

Lumley vs Rayner by the awards voting
  • Through 1946: Rayner's 1942 is probably pretty close to Lumley's 1946. Heading into 1947, they had similar careers on paper, BUT this includes 3 missed possible prime years to Rayner. Advantage Rayner, depending on how you credit the missed war years.
  • 1947-1948: They seem pretty similar, both solid but not standouts. Even
  • 1949-1951: Rayner was much better, while Lumley spent 2 of the years on a much better team. Big advantage Rayner
  • 1952: Rayner was in the ASG on merit, Lumley wasn't. Slight advantage Rayner
  • 1953: Rayner loses his starting job due to injury. Lumley keeps his job. Advantage Lumley by default.
    ____________
  • 1954-1955: Lumley is a 1st Team All Star both seasons
  • 1956: Lumley is an unimpressive starter
  • 1957: neither plays
  • 1958-1960: Lumley is a fringe starter


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 12-18-2012 at 12:37 AM.
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12-18-2012, 12:05 AM
  #121
TheDevilMadeMe
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Toss me a shovel and point me in the right direction. I have had too much time on my hands
Search google archives for Harry Lumley - anytime during his career is good and career retrospectives are also nice. I'm ESPECIALLY interested in knowing how he was perceived in the two seasons he was a 1st Teamer, since the case for Lumley over Rayner relies heavily on those two seasons.


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12-18-2012, 01:07 AM
  #122
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Harry Lumley

11/11/1926 – 9/13/1998
Height: 6’0”
Weight: 195 lb (88 kg)
Hand: Left

Played for:
Detroit Red Wings (1943-50)
Chicago Black Hawks (1950-52)
Toronto Maple Leafs (1952-56)
Buffalo Bison {AHL} (1956-58)
Boston Bruins (1957-60)
Providence Reds {AHL} (1958-59)
Winnipeg Warriors {WHL} (1960-61)

Statistics:
YearLeagueTeamGPWTGASOGAA
1943-44AHLIndianapolis Capitals52191514702.84
1943-44NHLNew York Rangers/Detroit Red Wings3001304.33
1944-45AHLIndianapolis Capitals211154622.14
1944-45NHLDetroit Red Wings3724311913.22
1945-46NHLDetroit Red Wings50201015923.18
1946-47NHLDetroit Red Wings52221015933.06
1947-48NHLDetroit Red Wings60301214772.46
1948-49NHLDetroit Red Wings6034714562.42
1949-50NHLDetroit Red Wings63331414872.35
1950-51NHLChicago Black Hawks64121024633.90
1951-52NHLChicago Black Haws7017924123.46
1952-53NHLToronto Maple Leafs702713167102.39
1953-54NHLToronto Maple Leafs693213128131.86
1954-55NHLToronto Maple Leafs69232213481.94
1955-56NHLToronto Maple Leafs59211015732.67
1956-57AHLBuffalo Bisons6325226404.19
1957-58AHLBuffalo Bisons17716313.67
1957-58NHLBoston Bruins241137032.92
1958-59AHLProvidence Reds5827220843.59
1958-59NHLBoston Bruins11812712.45
1959-60NHLBoston Bruins4216514623.48
1960-61EPHLKingston Frontenacs210703.50
1960-61WHLWinnipeg Warriors6117421302.49
         
TotalNHLDetroit Red Wings, et al8033301422,206712.76
TotalAHLIndianapolis Capitals, et al211892572863.45
TotalALLDetroit Red Wings, et al1,0774371843,154772.93

Playoffs:
YearLeagueTeamGPWGASOGAATeam he lost to
1943-44AHLIndianapolis Capitals511803.60Buffalo Bison
1944-45NHLDetroit Red Wings1473122.14Toronto Maple Leafs
1945-46NHLDetroit Red Wings511613.10Boston Bruins
1947-48NHLDetroit Red Wings1043003.00Toronto Maple Leafs
1948-49NHLDetroit Red Wings1142602.15Toronto Maple Leafs
1949-50NHLDetroit Red Wings1482831.85Stanley Cup Champions
1953-54NHLToronto Maple Leafs511502.80Detroit Red Wings
1954-55NHLToronto Maple Leafs401403.50Detroit Red Wings
1955-56NHLToronto Maple Leafs511312.57Detroit Red Wings
1957-58NHLBoston Bruins10505.00New York Rangers
1958-59NHLBoston Bruins732002.75Toronto Maple Leafs
         
TotalNHLDetroit Red Wings, et al762919872.491x Stanley Cup Champion
TotalALLIndianapolis Capitals, et al813021672.671x Stanley Cup Champion

*Injured during the 1946-47 playoffs
Transaction History:
1950: Traded along with Jack Stewart, Al Dewsbury, Pete Babando, and Don Morrison from the Detroit Red Wings to the Chicago Black Hawks in exchange for Metro Prystai, Gaye Stewart, Bob Goldham, and Jim Henry
1952: Traded from the Chicago Black Hawks to the Toronto Maple Leafs in exchange for Al Rollins, Gus Mortson, Cal Gardner, and Ray Hannigan

Awards:
1945: 4th in All Star voting
1946: 3rd in All Star voting; 4th in Hart voting
1947: 5th in All Star voting; close second in Vezina
1948: 4th in All Star voting
1950: Stanley Cup Champion
1951: Played on the All Star team
1954: 1st Team All Star; 5th in Hart voting (2nd goalie); Vezina Trophy winner
1955: 1st Team All Star; 2nd in Hart voting; Extremely close second in Vezina (better GAA than Sawchuk, but team gave up one more goal)
1980: Inducted into the Hall of Fame

Newspaper Articles:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmonton Journal, December 10, 1945
Harry Lumley, ace goaltender of Detroit Red Wings is continuing to lead the race among National Hockey League goalies, league statistics show today. Lumley, with 28 goals against in 13 games has an average of 2.154, and seems to be headed straight to the Vezina trophy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Montreal Gazette, March 31, 1947
Harry Lumley, Detroit Red Wing goalie, will undergo a serious groin operation Monday...He was the star in a victory over New York Rangers 10 days ago which clinched a playoff berth
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ottawa Citizen, January 1, 1948
The crowd was treated to a sensational performance by Lumley, who kicked out 31 shots from all angles as he ran a red-hot string to seven straight scoreless periods
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludington Daily News, January 9, 1948
the Canadiens fought the Wings to a standstill in Montreal Thursday night and were held to a tie only by the brilliant work of Harry Lumley, Detroit goalie
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Calgary Herald, December 2, 1949
The big goalie racked up his fourth - and second successive - shutout of the campaign...Lumley,...,turned in a performance that was a far cry from that last weekend when he allowed 13 goals as the Wings lost two games
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Gazette, April 10, 1950
Detroit Red Wings, backed by faultless netminding by apple-cheeked Harry Lumley, trampled Toronto Maple Leafs 4-0 Saturday night before 14,274 fans and tie up their best-of-seven Stanley Cup semi-final series 3-3...Lumley blocked 21 shots as he scored his first shutout of the series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saskatoon Star-Phoenix, April 17, 1950
What little back-slapping went on in the Detroit hockey dressing room Saturday night all fell on the wide shoulders of Harry Lumley...Lumley even had a hostile Toronto crowd cheering for him in the dying moments of the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Milwaukee Journal, April 17, 1950
...and an apple-cheeked goalie named Harry Lumley make the Detroit Red Wings almost prohibitive favorites to win the National Hockey League's Stanley Cup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmonton Journal, July 14, 1950
In Lumley the Hawks obtain one of the best goalies in the business.
It seems that Lumley had basically nothing to work with on the Black Hawks:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Calgary Herald, February 23, 1951
It was also the first game in two weeks for Harry Lumley, one of hockey's best goaltenders, whose fate most of this season has been to play behind a defence sadly weakened by injuries to such top performers as Jack Stewart and Bill Gadsby
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Calgary Hearld, January 11, 1952
The goaltending of Harry Lumley of the Chicago Black Hawks was the bright feature of the last NHL meeting between Hawks and Toronto Maple Leafs. Chicago was beaten 2-1 but time and again Lumley turned back efforts, taking 37 shots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Windsor Daily Star, March 13, 1954
If Harry Lumley of Toronto Maple Leafs and Terry Sawchuk of Detroit Red Wings finish in a deadlock for goal-tending honors the National Hockey League may be out an extra $1,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Edmonton Journal, September 28, 1954
This season's annual battle will be notable for the fact that facing each other, from opposite ends of the rink, will be two of the greatest net-minders in hockey history. They are Terry Sawchuk of Red Wings and Harry Lumley of the Toronto Leafs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Windsor Daily Star, October 8, 1954
While it must be admitted that the Toronto standard-bearers did not, as a team, look too good against the all-veteran Wings - and would have been beat much more decisively had it not been for the brilliant goal-tending of their Vezina Trophy winner, Harry Lumley - they still showed enough for their supporters not to lose heart
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Leader Post, March 11, 1955
Both Lumley and goalie Jacques Plante of the Canadiens performed brilliantly in halting all scoring attempts. Lumley dived into a blistering shot by Jackie Leclair in the last period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Montreal Gazette, January 20, 1958
Harry Lumley exhibits the form which enabled him to blank the league leading Canadiens...The 31-year-old Lumley, who was purchased recently by the Bruins from Buffalo, came through with a good display of netminding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Leader-Post, March 25, 1959
"You couldn't get the puck by the big guy tonight even if you had a gun," said Punch Imlach, Toronto general manager and coach. "No goalie in hockey could have done a better job."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa Citizen, December 30, 1959
Two National Hockey League goaltenders in a quest of job-security fought in a bitter duel Tuesday night. Harry Lumley won as Boston Bruins defeated the Rangers 4-3 in New York...Lumley was superb but earned himself a 10-minute misconduct penalty and automatic $25 fine at the end of the game for arguing with referee Dalton McArthur
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangor Daily News, September 14, 1998
He ranks ninth in career shutouts and is also in the top 10 in career wins
My take:
It seems to me that Lumley was considered one of the better goalies of his era, which was an unusual one. It was somewhat sandwiched in between eras. He was well established by the time Plante, Hall, and Sawchuk entered the league, and was also one of the best when Brimsek, Broda, and Durnan retired. Even when he was declining with the Bruins, it seemed as though he was able to put together streaks where he simply couldn't be scored on. This was true throughout his career; there were many mentions to shutout streaks throughout his career, and when he died in 1998, he was still 9th in career shutouts. He was brought up as a 17-year-old, and performed decently. He improved basically wherever he went, even if it's just one year to the next. I think if he wasn't on the lowly Black Hawks in between the Red Wings and Maple Leafs he would be remembered a bit more favorably, as that seemed to be his prime, seeing as he won the Stanley Cup in the 1949-50 season and the Vezina in the 1953-54 season.

Fun Facts:
Shares a name with an early MLB outfielder
Married in 1952; saw a sharp uptick in performance afterwards


Last edited by bluesfan94: 12-18-2012 at 05:01 PM.
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12-18-2012, 01:35 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Search google archives for Harry Lumley - anytime during his career is good and career retrospectives are also nice. I'm ESPECIALLY interested in knowing how he was perceived in the two seasons he was a 1st Teamer, since the case for Lumley over Rayner relies heavily on those two seasons.
Aye aye. The interesting, and slightly obnoxious, thing about Lumley is that he shares a name with an MLB player.

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12-18-2012, 02:08 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Aye aye. The interesting, and slightly obnoxious, thing about Lumley is that he shares a name with an MLB player.
hate when that happens.

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12-18-2012, 09:11 AM
  #125
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Harry Lumley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ya, Al Rollins & Gus Mortson who were both workhorses for Chicago for several seasons thereafter, while Cal Gardner I believe stuck around for one season, and Hannigan, well, he never did play for the Hawks, either a career minor leaguer or Senior player. Lumley I have no memory of whatsoever, before my time, but based on what Ive read, pieced together, he appeared ascendant in Detroit early but was upstaged by Sawchuk, and from there began a journey, a sojourn of sorts, playing for 5 of the 06 teams during his 16 or 17yr career. Stylistically, no idea what to make of him, however, he simply mustve benefited from Toronto's defensive game.... highly thought of by Smythe, member of the HHOF.
App. 45-50 minutes of action from the 1959 semi-final between Boston and Toronto offers glimpses of an aging Harry Lumley:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc....1.Ky83gf1ACFw

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