HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Notices

Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - Off Season 2012-13 (Part X)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-17-2012, 11:50 PM
  #126
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,594
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Halak posted a .938 sv% at even strength compared to .922 in 2008-09, .933 in 2009-10 and .916 in 2010-11.

Halak has done well under a couple systems, but he surely wasn't crapped on last year.

For those that haven't seen it, crapped on goaltenders:
http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/5/28/whic...ick-on-the-ice
That's all well and good, and for a bulk of those years he was backing
Carey Price and has never started more then 57games in a season. In fact the yet that he played that many games he posted a .910. Very comparable number to Pavs.

sully1410 is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 02:00 AM
  #127
Jets
Resident Sieve
 
Jets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,174
vCash: 170
I think we're kind of building for the Boston approach. No real star forwards, but an exceptional top 9 in terms of upper end talent, as well as a strong backend, and a good but not great goalie. That's sort of how the roster is shaping up and how I think TN plans to go in our market.

Jets is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 02:11 AM
  #128
Holden Caulfield
Moderator
Perennial Skeptic
 
Holden Caulfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets View Post
I think we're kind of building for the Boston approach. No real star forwards, but an exceptional top 9 in terms of upper end talent, as well as a strong backend, and a good but not great goalie. That's sort of how the roster is shaping up and how I think TN plans to go in our market.
Tim Thomas, who set a new record in SVP and won Vezina in 2011 and Tuukka Rask, arguably the best backup in the league, and an elite prospect for a starting role, is good not great? Only teams with even comparable goaltending is Vancouver and Los Angeles, and the argument can be made that New York R have no need of a second goalie. Nobody else outside those 3 comes CLOSE to as good as Boston is in net...

Let's not forget that Boston has a top 5 defenseman as well, as well as a top 5 twoway player in the league...

__________________



Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 12-18-2012 at 02:16 AM.
Holden Caulfield is online now  
Old
12-18-2012, 03:12 AM
  #129
Jets
Resident Sieve
 
Jets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,174
vCash: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Tim Thomas, who set a new record in SVP and won Vezina in 2011 and Tuukka Rask, arguably the best backup in the league, and an elite prospect for a starting role, is good not great? Only teams with even comparable goaltending is Vancouver and Los Angeles, and the argument can be made that New York R have no need of a second goalie. Nobody else outside those 3 comes CLOSE to as good as Boston is in net...

Let's not forget that Boston has a top 5 defenseman as well, as well as a top 5 twoway player in the league...
Maybe its just me, but I wouldn't put Tim Thomas in the top 10 for goalies. Rask is solid though I do really like him.

My point was more of a win as a team approach, rather than the penguins lean on Crosby/Malkin and streaky Fleury.

1. Jon Quick
2. Henrik Lundqvist
3. Pekka Rinne
4. Cam Ward
5. Carey Price
6. Ryan Miller
7. Roberto Luongo
8. Mikka Kiprusoff
9. Marc Andre Fleury
10. Kari Lehtonen
11. Corey Schneider
12. Tim Thomas
13. Nicklas Backstrom
14. Tuuka Rask
15. Marty Brodeur
16. Semyon Varlamov
17. Jaroslav Halak
18. Ondrej Pavelec
19. Mike Smith
20. Ilya Bryzgalov


Last edited by Jets: 12-18-2012 at 03:20 AM. Reason: Added my list
Jets is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 07:04 AM
  #130
almostawake
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets View Post
Maybe its just me, but I wouldn't put Tim Thomas in the top 10 for goalies. Rask is solid though I do really like him.

My point was more of a win as a team approach, rather than the penguins lean on Crosby/Malkin and streaky Fleury.

1. Jon Quick
2. Henrik Lundqvist
3. Pekka Rinne
4. Cam Ward
5. Carey Price
6. Ryan Miller
7. Roberto Luongo
8. Mikka Kiprusoff
9. Marc Andre Fleury
10. Kari Lehtonen
11. Corey Schneider
12. Tim Thomas
13. Nicklas Backstrom
14. Tuuka Rask
15. Marty Brodeur
16. Semyon Varlamov
17. Jaroslav Halak
18. Ondrej Pavelec
19. Mike Smith
20. Ilya Bryzgalov
It's just you. That list is brutal. Tim Thomas is a two time Vezina winner, a Conn Smythe winner and two seasons ago set the NHL record for save percentage.

He may be a poor teammate, a bizarre personality, and his effectiveness drops when he's over used, but the idea that he is not currently one of the 5 best goaltenders in the world is laughable.

During the Bruins cup run he was, undeniably, the most dominant goalie in those playoffs.

almostawake is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 08:16 AM
  #131
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,156
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Advanced stats people generally believe GAA is a team stat and Even Strength SV% is pretty much on the goalie. Studies have shown the "team effect" to be minimal and generally to be an exception rather than a rule.

Over a small sample, the quality of shots may be impactful, but over the course of a season these things are thought to even out. Same goes for lucky bounces (puck going in off defender's rear ends etc.) Obviously this isn't a perfect form of analysis, but ultimately defenders are supposed to prevent shots and scoring chances. If they do that, they are doing their jobs. I really don't think shot quality is big factor and it is really hard to measure.

Looking at last year, awful defensive teams like Edmonton, Minnesota and Columbus had goalies with better numbers than Pav. Save % is largely on the goalie.
That's interesting, thanks. I understand what you are saying, but just have a hard time justifying in my mind that over the course of a season that things even out. In my mind, there are teams that give up multiple high end scoring chances night after night, and there are other teams who play a system that doesn't let that happen.

I will have to defer to the experts though if the thought is that they do.

Huffer is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 09:23 AM
  #132
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
That's interesting, thanks. I understand what you are saying, but just have a hard time justifying in my mind that over the course of a season that things even out. In my mind, there are teams that give up multiple high end scoring chances night after night, and there are other teams who play a system that doesn't let that happen.

I will have to defer to the experts though if the thought is that they do.
Never defer, always question. The number nerds always question and it leads to some very interesting stuff.

For example NHL Numbers did a number of pieces on scoring chances / shot quality...

This article talks about the impact of shot quality over a short sample:
http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/6/28/on-t...-must-continue


This article talks about the impact of scoring chances / shot quality over a season...
http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/6/26/shot...nd-shot-totals




There are a number of interesting articles on shot quality if anyone is interested:



Shot Quality From Hockey Prospectus:
http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...?articleid=540

Why are goalie SV% increasing from NHL Numbers:
http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/10/9/why-...entages-rising

A whole crap load of links on regression, luck and variance from NHL Numbers:
http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/11/14/ref...-variance-luck

A whole crap load of links on shot quality from AIH. mostly via our big boss Gabe:
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/shot-quality


Everybody should read them all... I mean, what else are we gonna do while there is a lockout.

truck is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 09:33 AM
  #133
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Tim Thomas, who set a new record in SVP and won Vezina in 2011 and Tuukka Rask, arguably the best backup in the league, and an elite prospect for a starting role, is good not great? Only teams with even comparable goaltending is Vancouver and Los Angeles, and the argument can be made that New York R have no need of a second goalie. Nobody else outside those 3 comes CLOSE to as good as Boston is in net...

Let's not forget that Boston has a top 5 defenseman as well, as well as a top 5 twoway player in the league...
Yeah, I see the Boston model as:
  • Crazy crazy crazy depth at the forward spots. Three scoring lines, plus Bergeron is amazing.
  • A very solid group of defenders including Chara who is consistently top 5.
  • The best goaltending in the league (they had it when they won) and Rask will keep them in that ball park.

I do like the idea of a deep roster and 3 scoring lines. The Jets want to go that way, but as it sits they don't have a Bergeron, a Chara or a Thomas / Rask. Bogo could become that elite defender, can Scheifele become a high end #1C? Hopefully!!

truck is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 10:20 AM
  #134
scelaton
Registered User
 
scelaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Tim Thomas, who set a new record in SVP and won Vezina in 2011 and Tuukka Rask, arguably the best backup in the league, and an elite prospect for a starting role, is good not great? Only teams with even comparable goaltending is Vancouver and Los Angeles, and the argument can be made that New York R have no need of a second goalie. Nobody else outside those 3 comes CLOSE to as good as Boston is in net...

Let's not forget that Boston has a top 5 defenseman as well, as well as a top 5 twoway player in the league...
Interesting how Boston compiled the above list of stars.
Tim Thomas was signed (I believe) as a UFA
Rask was obtained in trade with the Leafs for a goalie who is going nowhere fast.
Chara was bought as a UFA
Seguin (my fav deal) was obtained by way of trade with the Leafs for their #2 overall pick

Messages:
1) Savvy management does not just sit on draft choices, but is opportunistic with trades and has deep enough pockets to pounce on UFAs
2)It helps to be lucky
3)It pays to do business with the Leafs

scelaton is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 10:30 AM
  #135
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
Interesting how Boston compiled the above list of stars.
Tim Thomas was signed (I believe) as a UFA
Rask was obtained in trade with the Leafs for a goalie who is going nowhere fast.
Chara was bought as a UFA
Seguin (my fav deal) was obtained by way of trade with the Leafs for their #2 overall pick

Messages:
1) Savvy management does not just sit on draft choices, but is opportunistic with trades and has deep enough pockets to pounce on UFAs
2)It helps to be lucky
3)It pays to do business with the Leafs
Yeah. If we want a cup run, TNSE has gotta find a way to Job the Leafs or CBJ.

Hey Howson, I have a bag of pucks... Wanna trade that for Nikita Nikitin? Sure. By all means throw in Tim Erixon, these pucks are brand new. You are getting great value here.


What could we give Burkie? Stuart, Postma and Montoya for Gunnarson, Reimer and Kadri? Draw up the papers!

truck is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 11:00 AM
  #136
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,594
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets View Post
Maybe its just me, but I wouldn't put Tim Thomas in the top 10 for goalies. Rask is solid though I do really like him.

My point was more of a win as a team approach, rather than the penguins lean on Crosby/Malkin and streaky Fleury.

1. Jon Quick
2. Henrik Lundqvist
3. Pekka Rinne
4. Cam Ward
5. Carey Price
6. Ryan Miller
7. Roberto Luongo
8. Mikka Kiprusoff
9. Marc Andre Fleury
10. Kari Lehtonen
11. Corey Schneider
12. Tim Thomas
13. Nicklas Backstrom
14. Tuuka Rask
15. Marty Brodeur
16. Semyon Varlamov
17. Jaroslav Halak
18. Ondrej Pavelec
19. Mike Smith
20. Ilya Bryzgalov
This list is bad and you should feel bad lol. No way is Cam Ward a top five Goalie, or better then Price and Luongo. At best Rinne and Miller are comparable to Lu. MAF as you said is streaky and is in no way a top ten goal tender. Mike Smith and Bryzgalov are by far better then Pavs. Id even put Hiller on this list ahead of Pavs.

My personal top five is

Lundqvist
Quick
Price
Luongo
Rinne

For me, Thomas is heading up the next tier of goalies. TT, Miller, Ward, Schneider, Rask. Not necessarily in that order.

Then you got pretty well everyone else. Its extremely debatable who places anywhere outside of the top ten.

sully1410 is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 01:07 PM
  #137
Hank Chinaski
Mod Supervisor
 
Hank Chinaski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,519
vCash: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
This list is bad and you should feel bad lol. No way is Cam Ward a top five Goalie, or better then Price and Luongo. At best Rinne and Miller are comparable to Lu. MAF as you said is streaky and is in no way a top ten goal tender. Mike Smith and Bryzgalov are by far better then Pavs. Id even put Hiller on this list ahead of Pavs.
I don't know why you're being so dismissive of Ward. You can easily make a case for him being top 5, he's performed superbly with a mediocre Carolina defense corps in front of him. Him and Price should be considered favourites for the Team Canada starter in Sochi.

Anyway, my completely unscientific ranking of goalies would be:

Tier 1
Lundqvist
Quick
Rinne

Tier 2A
Price
Ward
Thomas - (I'd put him here for now)

Tier 2B
Luongo
Miller

Tier 3 - total coincidence these guys are all Finns
Lehtonen
Kiprusoff
Backstrom

Tier 4
Hiller
Fleury
Howard
Halak

Then you've got Schneider and Rask, who probably could be slotted into 3 or higher, but I still haven't really got a sense where they fit in. They need a full season worth of starting.

After that, it's pretty much a toss-up. That's why I have a hard time getting down on Ondrej Pavelec, he's in that middling 17th-24th territory of starting goalies.


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 12-18-2012 at 01:14 PM.
Hank Chinaski is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 01:30 PM
  #138
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,594
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
I don't know why you're being so dismissive of Ward. You can easily make a case for him being top 5, he's performed superbly with a mediocre Carolina defense corps in front of him. Him and Price should be considered favourites for the Team Canada starter in Sochi.

Anyway, my completely unscientific ranking of goalies would be:

Tier 1
Lundqvist
Quick
Rinne

Tier 2A
Price
Ward
Thomas - (I'd put him here for now)

Tier 2B
Luongo
Miller

Tier 3 - total coincidence these guys are all Finns
Lehtonen
Kiprusoff
Backstrom

Tier 4
Hiller
Fleury
Howard
Halak

Then you've got Schneider and Rask, who probably could be slotted into 3 or higher, but I still haven't really got a sense where they fit in. They need a full season worth of starting.

After that, it's pretty much a toss-up. That's why I have a hard time getting down on Ondrej Pavelec, he's in that middling 17th-24th territory of starting goalies.
Rinne and Luongo have posted similar stats, except Rinne has a very defensive minded team in front of him. This upcoming season will speak volumes as to Rinne's actual ability. Lu also should be above Ward as Ward has only posted better stats then him once. Inferior team, I get it. But his numbers have hovered around .915, his highest being .923. Ward has posted in and around .915-.916 in a run and gun style, similar to Vancouver, three times. The other seasons were a flash in the pan .923 and then a .904 and a disimal .897. the fact that Ward was terrible for team Canada at the world cup of hockey speaks volumes. Is he top ten, absolutely. Top five, not in this life time.

Can we make a case for him for Sochi...well yea. It's not like Canada is flush with goalies ATM. Lu would probably start again, but he'll be like 36/37 so while he'll prolly be there, I think Price is Canada's goalie going forward. Ward will prolly slot in at 3.

I'm not even really being dismissive of him. It's not like I said, Ward ****ing sucks, he's just not top five, IMO. Being 6,7,or 8 is still nothing to sneeze at.


Last edited by sully1410: 12-18-2012 at 01:37 PM.
sully1410 is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 01:48 PM
  #139
Hank Chinaski
Mod Supervisor
 
Hank Chinaski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,519
vCash: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Rinne and Luongo have posted similar stats, except Rinne has a very defensive minded team in front of him. This upcoming season will speak volumes as to Rinne's actual ability. Lu also should be above Ward as Ward has only posted better stats then him once. Inferior team, I get it. But his numbers have hovered around .915, his highest being .923. Ward has posted in and around .915-.916 in a run and gun style, similar to Vancouver, three times. The other seasons were a flash in the pan .923 and then a .904 and a disimal .897. the fact that Ward was terrible for team Canada at the world cup of hockey speaks volumes. Is he top ten, absolutely. Top five, not in this life time.
Those .897 and .904 numbers were at the beginning of his career. I realize he wasn't on his game at the WHC, but I can give goalies the benefit of the doubt in that case (large ice surface, end of a long season, etc).

Hank Chinaski is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 01:50 PM
  #140
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
I don't know why you're being so dismissive of Ward. You can easily make a case for him being top 5, he's performed superbly with a mediocre Carolina defense corps in front of him. Him and Price should be considered favourites for the Team Canada starter in Sochi.

Anyway, my completely unscientific ranking of goalies would be:

Tier 1
Lundqvist
Quick
Rinne

Tier 2A
Price
Ward
Thomas - (I'd put him here for now)

Tier 2B
Luongo
Miller

Tier 3 - total coincidence these guys are all Finns
Lehtonen
Kiprusoff
Backstrom

Tier 4
Hiller
Fleury
Howard
Halak

Then you've got Schneider and Rask, who probably could be slotted into 3 or higher, but I still haven't really got a sense where they fit in. They need a full season worth of starting.

After that, it's pretty much a toss-up. That's why I have a hard time getting down on Ondrej Pavelec, he's in that middling 17th-24th territory of starting goalies.
In that 17th to 24th group I'm guessing you'd have: Varlamov, Dubnyk, Bryzgalov, Crawford, Anderson, Niemi, Theodore and Pav. If Pavi is 17th to 24th, that is below average at best, bad at worst. Nobody wants to have the 17th best goalie.

That does seem like a fair range though.

In 2010-12 Pav was 18th in total SV% and 11th among starters at 5 on 5. Pretty good!

In 2011-12 Pav was 23rd in total SV% and 22nd among starters at 5 on 5. Pretty bad!!

Hopefully this trends back upwards.

EDIT

Where is Vokoun? He has been a beast for a long long time.

truck is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 02:10 PM
  #141
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Rinne and Luongo have posted similar stats, except Rinne has a very defensive minded team in front of him. This upcoming season will speak volumes as to Rinne's actual ability. Lu also should be above Ward as Ward has only posted better stats then him once. Inferior team, I get it. But his numbers have hovered around .915, his highest being .923. Ward has posted in and around .915-.916 in a run and gun style, similar to Vancouver, three times. The other seasons were a flash in the pan .923 and then a .904 and a disimal .897. the fact that Ward was terrible for team Canada at the world cup of hockey speaks volumes. Is he top ten, absolutely. Top five, not in this life time.

Can we make a case for him for Sochi...well yea. It's not like Canada is flush with goalies ATM. Lu would probably start again, but he'll be like 36/37 so while he'll prolly be there, I think Price is Canada's goalie going forward. Ward will prolly slot in at 3.

I'm not even really being dismissive of him. It's not like I said, Ward ****ing sucks, he's just not top five, IMO. Being 6,7,or 8 is still nothing to sneeze at.
I like Cam, but I have long thought him to be overrated after that early playoff run.

I'd say he is a bottom end of the top 10 goalie, but not really in the top 5 convo.

If you want to look at post lockout numbers:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...y=games_played

Lu is the only Canadian in the top 10.



For a better read on right now, here are the top goalies over the last 4 years. Minimum 80 GP
http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...y=games_played

Lu and ward make the top 10.



Pavi is #37


Last edited by truck: 12-18-2012 at 02:17 PM.
truck is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 02:21 PM
  #142
Hank Chinaski
Mod Supervisor
 
Hank Chinaski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,519
vCash: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
In that 17th to 24th group I'm guessing you'd have: Varlamov, Dubnyk, Bryzgalov, Crawford, Anderson, Niemi, Theodore and Pav. If Pavi is 17th to 24th, that is below average at best, bad at worst. Nobody wants to have the 17th best goalie.

That does seem like a fair range though.

In 2010-12 Pav was 18th in total SV% and 11th among starters at 5 on 5. Pretty good!

In 2011-12 Pav was 23rd in total SV% and 22nd among starters at 5 on 5. Pretty bad!!

Hopefully this trends back upwards.

EDIT

Where is Vokoun? He has been a beast for a long long time.
Replace Dubnyk and Theodore with Vokoun* and Smith, and yeah, that sounds about right. Like I said though, it starts to get a bit interchangable at that point. You can make cases for Dubnyk and Theo in those spots, same with Nabokov and Elliott.

*re: your edit, yeah I kinda forgot about him. I had this sense that he declined a bit last year, but doing a quick glance at his stats, I see it wasn't as pronounced as I though. So yeah, like I said, hardly scientific.

While I agree that ballpark where Pavs is in suggests he's an average to poor starter, you still see outstanding performances from players in that range. Smith and Elliott are perfect examples.

Question that's been nagging me about the aforementioned two netminders: how does the whole theory about shot quality being an overrated factor account for the massive bump both experienced moving to new teams? Sorry if you or garret have talked about this before, but I'm genuinely curious.

Hank Chinaski is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 02:53 PM
  #143
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Replace Dubnyk and Theodore with Vokoun* and Smith, and yeah, that sounds about right. Like I said though, it starts to get a bit interchangable at that point. You can make cases for Dubnyk and Theo in those spots, same with Nabokov and Elliott.

*re: your edit, yeah I kinda forgot about him. I had this sense that he declined a bit last year, but doing a quick glance at his stats, I see it wasn't as pronounced as I though. So yeah, like I said, hardly scientific.

While I agree that ballpark where Pavs is in suggests he's an average to poor starter, you still see outstanding performances from players in that range. Smith and Elliott are perfect examples.

Question that's been nagging me about the aforementioned two netminders: how does the whole theory about shot quality being an overrated factor account for the massive bump both experienced moving to new teams? Sorry if you or garret have talked about this before, but I'm genuinely curious.
Some interesting work on coaching here:
http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.ca/
The Mike Smith and Sutter ones are worth a read.

A neat piece about trades:
http://vhockey.blogspot.ca/2009/07/s...y-fantasy.html


Ultimately, I think you will find many goalies that performed similarly on multiple teams than you will find goalies who had a drastic improvement of let down. ...and Kipper has proven a big swing can happen when you stay with the same team.

truck is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 06:01 PM
  #144
33
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,881
vCash: 50
Hey Jets fans! I'm the Ducks GM in a GM league. I was kicking the tires on a deal of Ryan Getzlaf and Sheldon Souray for Burmistrov, Bogosian and a 2 nd, how highly are Burmistrov and Bogo valued? Would I be the one winning the deal? (Getzlaf is un-signed)

33 is offline  
Old
12-18-2012, 06:17 PM
  #145
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,594
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Hey Jets fans! I'm the Ducks GM in a GM league. I was kicking the tires on a deal of Ryan Getzlaf and Sheldon Souray for Burmistrov, Bogosian and a 2 nd, how highly are Burmistrov and Bogo valued? Would I be the one winning the deal? (Getzlaf is un-signed)
Burmi is highly skilled, but hasn't broken through offensively yet, but is great defensively. Bogo is going to be a stud. has a great two way game and really came into his own last year. And don't get me started on 2nd. He's really broken through in AHL and looks to be a real catch.

If Getzlaf is unsigned and Souray has those concussion issues...yes you win this deal! however, I would be hesitant if theres a chance if you could resign Getzlaf...however thats pretty good value for him. Burmi is a good center in the making and Bogo is going to be outstanding soon.

sully1410 is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 01:51 PM
  #146
Daddy Longlegs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 251
vCash: 500
Would anyone else be on board with trading Scheifele now, while his perceived value is quite high? I know there are a lot of Scheifele fans here, but I just don't believe that he will be a very effective NHL player. I could very well be wrong, but my gut tells me he won't. For that reason I'd trade him soon for either a early first round pick in 2013 plus, or in a package deal for a young highly touted forward. Like Matt Duchene for example.

Take it easy on me boys. I'm only saying how I feel. Believe me when I say, I hope I'm wrong about him. But I just don't think I am.

Daddy Longlegs is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 02:00 PM
  #147
Gump Hasek
Spleen Merchant
 
Gump Hasek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,733
vCash: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy Longlegs View Post
Would anyone else be on board with trading Scheifele now, while his perceived value is quite high? I know there are a lot of Scheifele fans here, but I just don't believe that he will be a very effective NHL player. I could very well be wrong, but my gut tells me he won't. For that reason I'd trade him soon for either a early first round pick in 2013 plus, or in a package deal for a young highly touted forward. Like Matt Duchene for example.

Take it easy on me boys. I'm only saying how I feel. Believe me when I say, I hope I'm wrong about him. But I just don't think I am.
Yet, the organization that drafted him probably feels differently about him than do you apparently. Here is what the GM had to say about him in the summer; the comments about Scheifele begin at roughly the 50 second mark...

http://video.jets.nhl.com/videocente...ed-share-video

He has since said other quite glowing words about him in print as well. I'm guessing that they plan to let his future eventually play itself out here and guess you won't be getting your wish anytime soon.

Gump Hasek is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 02:12 PM
  #148
puck stoppa
Registered User
 
puck stoppa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,541
vCash: 500
What tier is Dipietro in? I can't believe no one has mentioned him he is a hot commodity as he's signed thru 2029 so a team can have him signed thru the next 4 CBA's.

puck stoppa is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 02:26 PM
  #149
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,594
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy Longlegs View Post
Would anyone else be on board with trading Scheifele now, while his perceived value is quite high? I know there are a lot of Scheifele fans here, but I just don't believe that he will be a very effective NHL player. I could very well be wrong, but my gut tells me he won't. For that reason I'd trade him soon for either a early first round pick in 2013 plus, or in a package deal for a young highly touted forward. Like Matt Duchene for example.

Take it easy on me boys. I'm only saying how I feel. Believe me when I say, I hope I'm wrong about him. But I just don't think I am.
Yes we all know how you feel about Matt Duchene.

sully1410 is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 02:53 PM
  #150
Paradise
Individual thinker
 
Paradise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Waiverpeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,721
vCash: 500
How would people feel about a trading like this?

Giordano
Baertschi

for

Kane
Postma

Paradise is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:38 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.