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Old
12-17-2012, 07:23 PM
  #26
glenbuis
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I think the games premier playoff performer is a stretch (defenceman). I don't think he's outplayed Chara and Doughty now has he.

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12-17-2012, 07:26 PM
  #27
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If you look at his points per game in this years playoffs, i think it calculates at 5games and 2pts = .4pts per game.
Holy sample size Batman!

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12-17-2012, 07:41 PM
  #28
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The trio of Thornton, Marleau and Boyle all have no movement clauses but if you could obtain valuable pieces for all three to compliment Couture, Pavelski, Burns, Vlasic etc. the sharks would be closer to the cup in 2 yrs ( ok 3-4 ) then thet are now or then.


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12-17-2012, 08:00 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
The trio of Thornton, Marleau and Boyle all have no movement clauses but if you could obtain valuable pieces for all three to compliment Couture, Pavelski, Burns, Vlasic etc. the sharks would be closer to the cup in 2 yrs then they are now or then.
There is no way we are going to get anyone for Thornton that will make us better in 2 years. 5-6 years sure, but not 2.

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12-17-2012, 08:55 PM
  #30
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Correct me if I'm wrong since I don't know much about how the CBA works, but I don't think they can just lower then salary cap to 60 million without lowering cap hits along with it. Or if they proposed it, the NHLPA definitely wouldn't accept it. A number of players would be unemployed with a 10 million reduction in salary cap. Unless you make the salary cap 60 million and the salary floor 55+ million, which some owners wouldn't agree to.

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12-17-2012, 09:11 PM
  #31
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There is no way we are going to get anyone for Thornton that will make us better in 2 years. 5-6 years sure, but not 2.
The key is to sell off everyone over 30 and then get out your cupbrella, because it's gonna be raining Stanleys!

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12-17-2012, 09:24 PM
  #32
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Fair enough. But it seems lkie the Sharks haven't been able to get it done and if they can't in the next 3-4yrs, these core players will age more. Would you prefer to stick with the current version or add what should be anywhere's from 4-5 other young core guys to mesh with Couture, Burns, Vlasic etc.

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12-17-2012, 09:27 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Fair enough. But it seems lkie the Sharks haven't been able to get it done and if they can't in the next 3-4yrs, these core players will age more. Would you prefer to stick with the current version or add what should be anywhere's from 4-5 other young core guys to mesh with Couture, Burns, Vlasic etc.
Until you can name examples, the argument is all for naught. There is no point in speaking hypotheticals unless you can give some specifics. First, you have to ask Thornton and Marleau to waive their NMC, which DW won't do. Then you have to find teams that they are willing to go to. When you do that, you have to find players on said teams that are worth trading Thornton and Marleau for. Not to mention their value is lower with a NMC.

It's simply unrealistic to trade those players, so talking about it is pretty useless. Boyle on the otherhand has a limited NTC, so it's more feasible to trade him.

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12-17-2012, 09:49 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Fair enough. But it seems lkie the Sharks haven't been able to get it done and if they can't in the next 3-4yrs, these core players will age more. Would you prefer to stick with the current version or add what should be anywhere's from 4-5 other young core guys to mesh with Couture, Burns, Vlasic etc.
Good professional teams aren't so fickle. The Sharks are a quality organization. They're gonna try to find ways to have their young guys complement and mesh with their established veterans and try to win that way.

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12-17-2012, 10:50 PM
  #35
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I think if you were to take the 5 best players from any team in the nhl, you would not find another team that has three of their 5 - 33 or older. Would there be some shark fans that would say to a slight degree the window is closing ?

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12-17-2012, 11:06 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Would there be some shark fans that would say to a slight degree the window is closing ?
Of course the window is closing. The problem is that you are under the assumption that we could trade Marleau and Thornton and be good for the next 5+ years. I also trust that the organization would be able to find ways to supplement the core down the road without having to rebuild; at least I'm willing to gamble the next couple of years of contention on it.

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Old
12-17-2012, 11:27 PM
  #37
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Lets use the time frame of 3-4 yrs. If the window is indeed closing and they don't get it done, (it doesn't look like their getting closer), these two approaches would lead to two different teams. One being mediocre and one contending for a while.

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12-17-2012, 11:35 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Lets use the time frame of 3-4 yrs. If the window is indeed closing and they don't get it done, (it doesn't look like their getting closer), these two approaches would lead to two different teams. One being mediocre and one contending for a while.
1. The Sharks are only a season removed from 2 WCF appearances. The majority of the blame for the 1st round exit last season is on the coaches, not the players.
2. I already elaborated how the Sharks won't be a mediocre team in a few years. Thornton and Marleau will be 2nd liners at worst. Pavelski will be in his prime. Couture won't even be in his prime yet. Their d-core will be more than solid.
3. You haven't proven anything. Like I said initially, you're speaking hypotheticals without giving any specifics. Who are they trading Thornton and Marleau for that will make them "contending for a while".

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Old
12-18-2012, 08:27 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Rangers are screwed with cap if it drops to 70m
clueless post

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=NYR

Rangers would have 7+ million if the cap was at 70.

If the cap dropped to 60 million, they would have no problem getting back to that number as well.

Screwed? Far from it.

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12-18-2012, 08:33 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
I don't know much about the Rangers' cap situation, but I'm thinking the point would be to win the Stanley Cup.
Boyle doesn't put the Rangers over the top to win it all.

MDZ with another year under his belt will be plenty good enough on the PP to justify not going after Boyle to the tune of an overpayment of this size.

Additionally, adding Nash's scoring ability to that of Gaborik's, the PP is not going to be lacking the kind of shooters we have needed to make the PP a part of that game that teams needed to be concerned with.

MDZ and Brad Richards can man the points, Nash - Callahan - Gaborik at forward, you have a solid 1st pairing that will play the first 1:00 to 1:20 of any and every PP.

Boyle (at the asking price) is not the solution.

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Old
12-18-2012, 09:53 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Rangers are screwed with cap if it drops to 70m
Wrong. Great post though.

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Old
12-18-2012, 09:53 AM
  #42
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I don't think your gauranteed to have the three for 3 or 4 more years tho. They are signed till 2014 i think. And are you serious when you say the majority of the blame is on the coaches and not the players. Seems like the same players have not got the job done for years now. Cant find the right coach i guess.


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12-18-2012, 11:37 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Boyle doesn't put the Rangers over the top to win it all.
I don't think it's absurd to suggest that adding a player of Boyle's caliber makes the Rangers a better team. The Rangers have shown a propensity to add big name players, so speculation that the Rangers could have interest in adding someone like Boyle isn't exactly crazy either.

I haven't studied the Rangers' cap situation, so I can't speak to whether it would be a plausible move (judging by the consensus in this thread, it wouldn't), but Boyle would make the Rangers a better team this year. Better teams have a better chance to win a Stanley Cup.

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12-18-2012, 02:29 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
I don't think your gauranteed to have the three for 3 or 4 more years tho. They are signed till 2014 i think. And are you serious when you say the majority of the blame is on the coaches and not the players. Seems like the same players have not got the job done for years now. Cant find the right coach i guess.
It was bad PK strategies by the coaches. The terrible penalty kill was the reason we lost the in the 1st round last year. Tmac needs better strategies.

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12-18-2012, 04:59 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
I don't think it's absurd to suggest that adding a player of Boyle's caliber makes the Rangers a better team. The Rangers have shown a propensity to add big name players, so speculation that the Rangers could have interest in adding someone like Boyle isn't exactly crazy either.

I haven't studied the Rangers' cap situation, so I can't speak to whether it would be a plausible move (judging by the consensus in this thread, it wouldn't), but Boyle would make the Rangers a better team this year. Better teams have a better chance to win a Stanley Cup.
This I wouldn't argue with.

Does Boyle make them a somewhat better team? Yes he can.

The propensity to add big name players have not been via the trade route aside from the recent Nash acquisition.

Aside from that, the big name guys they have acquired have been via Free Agency and after the Nash trade, the Rangers need to keep all the young and cheap NHL Talent they can get their hands on.

Hagelin, Boyle and Stralman individually can be moved, although I would have a real hard time moving Hagelin. Defensively responsible forwards with offensive ability and top 3 NHL Speed) are hard to come by.

Trading youth like this for an over the hill (still effective) offensive defenceman is something the pre-2005 Rangers made all the time.

In a capped world, it's not a smart play.

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12-18-2012, 05:47 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
I don't think your gauranteed to have the three for 3 or 4 more years tho. They are signed till 2014 i think. And are you serious when you say the majority of the blame is on the coaches and not the players. Seems like the same players have not got the job done for years now. Cant find the right coach i guess.
Yes, our PK was so bad, good PK players like Winnik were going "what the **** kind of ****** pk system are you guys trying to run?".

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12-18-2012, 06:14 PM
  #47
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You may find that there are better penalty killers other than Winnik. Maybe someone like Helm and Tatar for Boyle.

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12-18-2012, 06:17 PM
  #48
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You may find that there are better penalty killers other than Winnik. Maybe someone like Helm and Tatar for Boyle.
You're not listening; the Problem wasn't personnel.

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12-18-2012, 06:21 PM
  #49
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You may find that there are better penalty killers other than Winnik. Maybe someone like Helm and Tatar for Boyle.
The. Problem. With. The. Penalty kill. Was. Not. The. Players.

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Old
12-18-2012, 06:27 PM
  #50
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Boyle doesn't really fit a glaring need.

The PP would be fine with 2 pairings made up of Stralman, Del Zotto, McDonagh, and Girardi, especially with Del Zotto and McDonagh hopefully developing their offense in coming years.

I'd like to go 4 D-men so we can get Richards off the point and back at center because I'm sick of our 4th line center getting PP time.

On paper the Rangers don't really have a glaring need. We're pretty much set. Now things don't always translate to the ice but I'd like to see how it goes with the current installment before looking into another big move.

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