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Lockout V: Take the Long Way Home

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Old
12-18-2012, 03:27 AM
  #176
Ernie
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Even if the disclaimer of interest tactic doesn't hold up in court, I think that it will still send a powerful signal to the NHL.

Despite failing at every turn, they're still trying to sideline Fehr. A massive backing from the union membership should be an indication to the NHL that if they want a deal to get done this season, they need to go through Fehr. And if they try to cancel the season, full decertification is just around the corner. In addition, the league could be on the hook for significant damages under that scenario.

Even if the disclaimer goes through and the NHL's lawsuit fails on all counts, it's not like there's going to be an injunction to immediately return to play.

So yes, it's just posturing still at this point. But it still puts the pressure on the NHL regardless.

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12-18-2012, 05:19 AM
  #177
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If the players decertify couldn't the owners just ask the players that didn't want to decertify to create a new union and accept the deal?

Anyone who didn't want to be in the union wouldn't be be stuck in one and could just go play in Europe, most if not all would come crawling back though.

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12-18-2012, 08:10 AM
  #178
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I just don't understand. Maybe someone can explain to me why this is still going on? The players got their "make whole" money, a 50/50 revenue split is fair and was adopted recently by the NFL and NBA two leagues that are wildly more successful than the NHL, 5 year max contracts with an option for 7 if you re-sign with your team is fair and good for the sport, and a 10 year CBA is a must at this point for the league. You can not grow the league if they lock out every 6 years. What are the sticking points? Is it just me or are the players holding this up? I mean either way they are all going to be millionaires by playing hockey. Is the collective group of players really willing to lose a whole years pay; which most will never recoup, so that star players like Sidney Crosby can get max deals?????

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12-18-2012, 08:34 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
I just don't understand. Maybe someone can explain to me why this is still going on?
Because Fehr has convinced the masses that they have still not seen the NHL's best offer. Hence they are going to push this to the wall.

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12-18-2012, 08:37 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Because Fehr has convinced the masses that they have still not seen the NHL's best offer. Hence they are going to push this to the wall.
Haha, Donald Fehr let me introduce you to Jeremy Jacobs.

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12-18-2012, 09:53 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by BigWheeler View Post
Hopefully the owners hang tight and don't cave.

Let the players BEG for their jobs back. But not for 50-50, tell them after the damage they've done to the league with their lockout, that now you need minimum 55%-60% in order to recoup your losses and potential losses since there's no WAY the league will make $3B again for a long time.
I think they would go 2 or 3 seasons before starting to consider "begging" to come back. Of all athletes, I think hockey players are easily the most likely to have little problem adjusting to slightly more modest lives. After 2 lost seasons, don't you think the NHL will be begging them to come back? The frachise values are hundreds of millions of dollars, not to mention all of the tax advantages for these guys since they have other ventures. That's all gone if there is no more NHL.


Last edited by Killion: 12-18-2012 at 11:28 AM. Reason: qtd del...
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12-18-2012, 09:57 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Because Fehr has convinced the masses that they have still not seen the NHL's best offer. Hence they are going to push this to the wall.
The best offer would have come before Sept 15 had the PA wanted to actually negotiate. They could have had everything the NHL has offered (and still willing to give) and then some (some escrow protection as things are stepped down or for a temporary decrease in revenue during the CBA term etc). And done it all while not costing the players hundreds of millions they will never get back.

Yet here we are and Fehr is still asking only for upward linkage and various schemes to have money going to the players outside the system.

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12-18-2012, 09:58 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Of all athletes, I think hockey players are easily the most likely to have little problem adjusting to slightly more modest lives.
slightly more modest, lol.

If the last CBA is any indicator, the players will within two years be making even more than today, within three years have raises that have blown away the countries average wage increase.

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12-18-2012, 10:05 AM
  #184
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slightly more modest, lol.

If the last CBA is any indicator, the players will within two years be making even more than today, within three years have raises that have blown away the countries average wage increase.
I'm talking about living off the earnings they already have. They all have plenty of money and are going to survive comfortably for one or two seasons if need be. If need be, they could always get a job too.

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12-18-2012, 10:31 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I'm talking about living off the earnings they already have. They all have plenty of money and are going to survive comfortably for one or two seasons if need be. If need be, they could always get a job too.
So much for "I just wanna play".

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12-18-2012, 10:36 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Because Fehr has convinced the masses that they have still not seen the NHL's best offer. Hence they are going to push this to the wall.
I am sorry but I just cant phathom how a "better deal" could be coming from the NHL.

No deal will ever make up the money they have lost and they are not getting better contracting rights then they had last CBA.

Fehr has FAILED his constituents. Big time.

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12-18-2012, 10:37 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by BigWheeler View Post
Hopefully the owners hang tight and don't cave.

Let the players BEG for their jobs back. But not for 50-50, tell them after the damage they've done to the league with their lockout, that now you need minimum 55%-60% in order to recoup your losses and potential losses since there's no WAY the league will make $3B again for a long time.
Oh I'm sorry...it's a players imposed lockout? Or is it an owner imposed lockout? Because last I checked the legacy, inheritance,market manipulating, tax cheat, miserly, barely know anything about hockey, make $100 million a year in my other ventures but will lock out the NHL because I don't make enough from my "toy" owners who are locking out the league

These owners only deserve one thing. MOD

Jacobs company makes over 2.5 billion A YEAR. And he's being a petty ******* here quibbling over what amounts to be pennies. These NHL players grew up poor, most of them...work their ***** off in a brutal sport where you're 1 injury away from having no career and no life...you're washed up by 37-38 and likely lead a painful life in the aftermath due to nagging injuries...only to have a bunch of Mr. Burns misers who will make their billions whether the league plays or not turn the screws to you just to be vengeful. MOD


Last edited by Killion: 12-18-2012 at 11:29 AM. Reason: qtd del...
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12-18-2012, 11:05 AM
  #188
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Oh I'm sorry...it's a players imposed lockout?
essentially, yes.

The owners are (have been) ready to start the season, the players aren't.

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12-18-2012, 11:13 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Even if the disclaimer of interest tactic doesn't hold up in court, I think that it will still send a powerful signal to the NHL.

Despite failing at every turn, they're still trying to sideline Fehr. A massive backing from the union membership should be an indication to the NHL that if they want a deal to get done this season, they need to go through Fehr. And if they try to cancel the season, full decertification is just around the corner. In addition, the league could be on the hook for significant damages under that scenario.

Even if the disclaimer goes through and the NHL's lawsuit fails on all counts, it's not like there's going to be an injunction to immediately return to play.

So yes, it's just posturing still at this point. But it still puts the pressure on the NHL regardless.
I disagree. I don't think it worries the NHL in the least bit. There's more questions for the players than the owners.

What could possibly happen to our current contracts?
This will cost next season also, how much do we gain by 2 season's lost?
Who pays for all these legal fees for us to sue? The NHLPA can't just go taking out lines of credit anymore. The players will pay.

Players going to risk 2 years salary? Even if by some chance they won their antitrust suits it would just fold the league. 2 years salary * 3?
You'd fold 95% of the league? is that their end goal?
Heck if the NHL becomes responsible for this after teams fold you'll fold the entire NHL haha.

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Old
12-18-2012, 11:16 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
essentially, yes.

The owners are (have been) ready to start the season, the players aren't.
Unless there is something I am missing this is on the players at this point. The 50/50 split is what it is and it's not going to change, if they players think they are getting more or that they deserve more they are sadly mistaken. The players got their "make whole" money for contracts already signed. So now it comes down to CBA and contract length and the fact is a 10 year CBA is a must and 5 year max contracts with a 7 year option for players resigning with their teams is fair. The players need to sign the deal already.

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12-18-2012, 11:26 AM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
essentially, yes.

The owners are (have been) ready to start the season, the players aren't.
The owners were ready to start negotiations a year ago, the players weren't. Because the players therefore forced the Season to start without a CBA, the owners therefore said, 'not happening'. Now the owners have made a fair number of concessions on their original CBA expectations, and the players have continued to refuse to accept. So one could argue that now it's the players who are refusing to start the Season.

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12-18-2012, 11:26 AM
  #192
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I am sorry but I just cant phathom how a "better deal" could be coming from the NHL.

No deal will ever make up the money they have lost and they are not getting better contracting rights then they had last CBA.

Fehr has FAILED his constituents. Big time.
At this point, no, a better deal will not come.

IMO, some time back in the summer, Fehr told the players his game plan. And that plan was to hold out for as long as possible and push this to the cliff, and then the owners would cave on the last day to still have some kind of season.

This still might come to pass ( the owners caving on the last day to still have a 48 game season ) but, it looks like Fehr might have misread the owners .

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12-18-2012, 11:26 AM
  #193
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These NHL players grew up poor, most of them...
Seriously? You don't know the meaning of poor. Sending your kid to hockey camp is expensive. Buying equipment for your kid is expensive. Renting ice-time at a rink is expensive. Ice hockey is a sport for first-world and industrialized countries only.

Because of the cost. Soccer is popular around the world because even kids in third-world armpits can play a semblance of it using a home-made ball in a patch of open field. Basketball is popular with inner-city youths in the US because it requires nothing but a playground with a hoop and a ball.

I'm not going to say that NHL'ers were born with silver spoons in their mouths, but to say they grew up poor? Uh, no.

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12-18-2012, 11:28 AM
  #194
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My only question at this point is does Fehr have it in him to wave the white flag and tell the players "sorry but this is the best it's going to get, my promise of unrealistic financial windfalls at the owners expense was a pipe dream." Or is it going to take the players revolting against the NHLPA and its leadership for this deal to finally get done?

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12-18-2012, 11:33 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Because Fehr has convinced the masses that they have still not seen the NHL's best offer. Hence they are going to push this to the wall.
We'll see, sooner or later, if he's right.

I'm thinking he is.

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12-18-2012, 11:35 AM
  #196
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We'll see, sooner or later, if he's right.

I'm thinking he is.
He is playing a dangerous game of chicken with the players financial futures on the line. Seems crazy to me and I have no idea how the players are staying unified on this.

Lockout or no lockout the NHL owners will be filthy rich.

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12-18-2012, 11:35 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
My only question at this point is does Fehr have it in him to wave the white flag and tell the players "sorry but this is the best it's going to get, my promise of unrealistic financial windfalls at the owners expense was a pipe dream." Or is it going to take the players revolting against the NHLPA and its leadership for this deal to finally get done?
The dramatic tension would be riveting, if this weren't playing out so... god....... damned....


slowly.

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12-18-2012, 11:36 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
My only question at this point is does Fehr have it in him to wave the white flag and tell the players "sorry but this is the best it's going to get, my promise of unrealistic financial windfalls at the owners expense was a pipe dream." Or is it going to take the players revolting against the NHLPA and its leadership for this deal to finally get done?
For one, there was never going to be "windfalls" for the players. The fight was to keep what they already had or to lose minimally. Now as for Fehr, I truly don't believe that the guy cares about hockey, he only cares about his reputation of being the guy who can win for sports unions. He realistically has two alternatives: One is to think that he can still win what he set out to win, meaning that he doesn't respect that the owners won't concede further; or two, that to save face he tells that players that it appears they've got all their going to get. A third option wouldn't be good for Fehr in the long run, and that's that he continues to push on, and in the end the players (everyone) loses much much more. Personally, I think option 1 and option 3 are the same. The owners wouldn't be doing themselves any goodat all to concede even further.

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12-18-2012, 11:40 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
My only question at this point is does Fehr have it in him to wave the white flag and tell the players "sorry but this is the best it's going to get, my promise of unrealistic financial windfalls at the owners expense was a pipe dream." Or is it going to take the players revolting against the NHLPA and its leadership for this deal to finally get done?
This will probably end like the 2004/5 lockout. Over the summer with the NHLPA going behind Fehrs back and settling.

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12-18-2012, 11:42 AM
  #200
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He is playing a dangerous game of chicken with the players financial futures on the line. Seems crazy to me and I have no idea how the players are staying unified on this.

Lockout or no lockout the NHL owners will be filthy rich.
Right, but if the lockout persists, some of those owners' rather large investments will be damaged to the point of insurmountable loss, potentially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
For one, there was never going to be "windfalls" for the players. The fight was to keep what they already had or to lose minimally. Now as for Fehr, I truly don't believe that the guy cares about hockey, he only cares about his reputation of being the guy who can win for sports unions. He realistically has two alternatives: One is to think that he can still win what he set out to win, meaning that he doesn't respect that the owners won't concede further; or two, that to save face he tells that players that it appears they've got all their going to get. A third option wouldn't be good for Fehr in the long run, and that's that he continues to push on, and in the end the players (everyone) loses much much more. Personally, I think option 1 and option 3 are the same. The owners wouldn't be doing themselves any favors to concede even further.
People keep saying Fehr is in this for his ego; isn't the more likely scenario one of him just actually doing his job?

Ego or not, "saving face" or not, he was brought in by the PA to get them the best deal possible. Besides, if the NHL refuses to negotiate with him, doesn't that seem like more of an "ego" win than anything by proving he's so tough nobody wants to take him on?

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