HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Edler + Schneider

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-18-2012, 10:27 AM
  #101
mstad101
Registered User
 
mstad101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
What if the Leafs would offer Morgan Rielly, Tyler Bozak, and James Reimer? Would you consider that?

Or the Oilers offered: Jordan Eberle +, + ? Would you consider that?

The Canucks now have Garrison to replace Edler. I actually see Edler being traded; he is now a redundant piece, who carries significant value.
Garrison was brought in to augment Edler's game. Garrison is. Top flight luck moving Dman. He's best known for having a good shot and playing steady D. If Garrison is replacing anyone it's Salo.

Edler is our only true offensive catalyst from the back end. Bieksa can put up decent points but not one other Dman on our team can control the PP as well as Edler. Nor can any of our Dmen hold a jock strap to Eddie's puck carrying skills.

The only way we can afford to trade Eddie is through acquiring a Gardiner type back. Someone who can lead the offence from the back end but be cost controlled

mstad101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 10:37 AM
  #102
JuniorNelson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: E.Vancouver
Country: Australia-Aboriginal
Posts: 4,735
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I don't get these threads. We simply cannot trade Edler. He's irreplaceable. I realize we have issues scoring in the playoffs, but trading our most dynamic defenseman isn't the answer. Our PP would not work too great without Edler back there.
Edler chose not to sign here.

As far as Edler and Luongo in a package, I think it's a great value for some teams. Philadelphia, for example would be a sure contender. Any team in win now mode would benefit! That's the thing, though, the Canucks are allgedly in win now mode, too.

Edler and Luongo must return a key piece the Canucks do not have to make it worth it. That would be a power forward. Edler might return Abdelkader or Latendresse but Edler/Luongo would have to be a Lucic or Getzlaf (Kovalchuk/Ovechkin?) type return. I'd settle for a few others, of course, but it would need to be a name player.

JuniorNelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 12:01 PM
  #103
guyzeur
Registered User
 
guyzeur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,260
vCash: 50
Sens have:

Forwards
Zbad

Defensemans
Wiercioch/Claesson/Mikael Wikstrand/Cody Ceci (not ready for another 2 years)

Goalies
Bishop
Anderson

1st proposal: Edler

Bishop, so you have a backup to Luongo/Schneider
Zbad
And one of Wiercioch/Wikstrand/Claesson

Then you can trade either Luongo/Schneider in a separate trade

1B proposal: Edler
Ceci
Zbad

2nd proposal: Edler + Luongo
Zbad
One of Wiercioch/Wikstrand/Claesson
Anderson (2M cheaper and 2 years younger)

3rd proposal: Edler + Schneider
Not really interested since we have Lehner waiting.


You're best value is to make 2 trades IMO


Last edited by guyzeur: 12-18-2012 at 12:27 PM.
guyzeur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 12:07 PM
  #104
blankall
Registered User
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I don't get these threads. We simply cannot trade Edler. He's irreplaceable. I realize we have issues scoring in the playoffs, but trading our most dynamic defenseman isn't the answer. Our PP would not work too great without Edler back there.
This thread is just asking for a flame war. Edler is beyond valuable to the Canucks. He's also an upcomming UFA, so teams won't offer full value for him.

blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 12:21 PM
  #105
Cogburn
Registered User
 
Cogburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,744
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
Simmonds isn't worth Edlers jock strap
I'd be listening, I'd love to hear what the + is. We have plenty of tweeners, but Simmonds does have an element of physicality I think we could use. Simmonds+1st I don't think cuts it though, unless Philidelphia is planning to nose-dive, a late first doesn't help us all that much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I was responding to a poster that said that he would trade edler straight up for kessel an I strongly beg to differ, I would expect another piece back for both Alex and Cory.
I'd be wanting Kessel+Gardiner for both. Schneider is nearly a non-starter anyway, and Edler is on par with Phaneuf for the calibre of player we're talking about. We'd have to tweak a little bit, but those are the two pieces I'd want for our them. Kessel > Edler (I'm assuming Toronto would want negotiating rights) and Schneider > Gardiner (I remember a few trades being thrown around centred around that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
Sens have:

Forwards
Zbad

Defensemans
Wiercioch/Claesson/Mikael Wikstrand/Cody Ceci

Goalies
Bishop
Anderson

1st proposal: Edler

Bishop, so you have a backup to Luongo/Schneider
Zbad
And one of Wiercioch/Wikstrand/Claesson

Then you can trade either Luongo/Schneider in a separate trade

1B proposal: Edler
Ceci
Zbad

2nd proposal: Edler + Luongo
Zbad
One of Wiercioch/Wikstrand/Claesson
Anderson (2M cheaper and 2 years younger)

3rd proposal: Edler + Schneider
Not really interested since we have Lehner waiting.


You're best value is to make 2 trades IMO
1A: We have a top prospect ready to be our back up in Lack, so while I like Bishop, I don't know that he'd be needed.

1B: Ceci and Zbad would be a great return if we were rebuilding, but we're looking to compete now.

2: Same general complaint, but I'd consider it more if the cap does drop, as we clear 8.58 and take 2 back. I think the value is still tilted in Ottawa's side though.

Unless I am woefully out of the loop with Ottawa's prospects (it's possible I am), that we take a small increase, from Ceci to one of the other defenders, and Anderson, for the addition of Luongo. That just doesn't seem worth it to me either.

3: Yeah, I'd kind of want Spezza back, and that will go over very well with both fan bases So let's just say not a fit for both of us there.

Cogburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 12:45 PM
  #106
guyzeur
Registered User
 
guyzeur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,260
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I'd be listening, I'd love to hear what the + is. We have plenty of tweeners, but Simmonds does have an element of physicality I think we could use. Simmonds+1st I don't think cuts it though, unless Philidelphia is planning to nose-dive, a late first doesn't help us all that much.



I'd be wanting Kessel+Gardiner for both. Schneider is nearly a non-starter anyway, and Edler is on par with Phaneuf for the calibre of player we're talking about. We'd have to tweak a little bit, but those are the two pieces I'd want for our them. Kessel > Edler (I'm assuming Toronto would want negotiating rights) and Schneider > Gardiner (I remember a few trades being thrown around centred around that).



1A: We have a top prospect ready to be our back up in Lack, so while I like Bishop, I don't know that he'd be needed.

1B: Ceci and Zbad would be a great return if we were rebuilding, but we're looking to compete now.

2: Same general complaint, but I'd consider it more if the cap does drop, as we clear 8.58 and take 2 back. I think the value is still tilted in Ottawa's side though.

Unless I am woefully out of the loop with Ottawa's prospects (it's possible I am), that we take a small increase, from Ceci to one of the other defenders, and Anderson, for the addition of Luongo. That just doesn't seem worth it to me either.

3: Yeah, I'd kind of want Spezza back, and that will go over very well with both fan bases So let's just say not a fit for both of us there.
Greedy Canucks fans, you would have Kessler play on the 3rd line?

guyzeur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 01:16 PM
  #107
ginner classic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kitsilano
Posts: 6,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Ryder + Halak + 2nd?
We chuckle over that, but with the benefit of hindsight, not a bad package.

Certainly better than Raymond, Ballard and a 3rd.

ginner classic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 01:41 PM
  #108
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
This thread is just asking for a flame war. Edler is beyond valuable to the Canucks. He's also an upcomming UFA, so teams won't offer full value for him.
Just like SJ with Brent Burns right?

StringerBell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 01:46 PM
  #109
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,150
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Just like SJ with Brent Burns right?
There isn't really a comparison. Brent Burns was traded at the draft, so they had a full season if him. For me personally,I don't think there's going to be a season...so why bother trading for him? Seasons half gone, so is Edler's value. Had he been resigned, it would have been huge.

sully1410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 01:47 PM
  #110
blankall
Registered User
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Just like SJ with Brent Burns right?
No not really. Brent Burns is signed to a relatively long contract. His value is relatively certain.

blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 02:00 PM
  #111
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
No not really. Brent Burns is signed to a relatively long contract. His value is relatively certain.
When he was traded to SJ he was heading into his last season of RFA, just like Edler is, and he still got a great return. Edler probably isn't worth as much now due to the lockout, but if he were to be traded before the season starts I'd wager there would still be some nice pieces coming back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
There isn't really a comparison. Brent Burns was traded at the draft, so they had a full season if him. For me personally,I don't think there's going to be a season...so why bother trading for him? Seasons half gone, so is Edler's value. Had he been resigned, it would have been huge.
Is it really worth discussing trading for someone in the event of a lost season, when a CBA is required to make trades? Just seems illogical to me.

StringerBell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 02:21 PM
  #112
Cogburn
Registered User
 
Cogburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,744
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
Greedy Canucks fans, you would have Kessler play on the 3rd line?
Or with Kesler playing wing He could use a stellar playmaker playing with him, and Keslers "best" season (since it was a part season, and it wasn't his statistical best) came with Sundin in my opinion. I don't know if it would be appropriate to compare Sundin and Spezza, but Spezza a heck of a lot better then Raymond.

As for "greedy"...yeah, I guess that fits too

Cogburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 02:25 PM
  #113
skywarp75
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,053
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
Garrison was brought in to augment Edler's game. Garrison is. Top flight luck moving Dman. He's best known for having a good shot and playing steady D. If Garrison is replacing anyone it's Salo.

Edler is our only true offensive catalyst from the back end. Bieksa can put up decent points but not one other Dman on our team can control the PP as well as Edler. Nor can any of our Dmen hold a jock strap to Eddie's puck carrying skills.

The only way we can afford to trade Eddie is through acquiring a Gardiner type back. Someone who can lead the offence from the back end but be cost controlled
i duno what yer talking about, as Garrison is a left side D who only plays right on the PP. And Edler has amazing breakout passes, but is certainly NOT a puck carrier as you say. Bieksa actually carries it up ice far more than Edler. I dont know what the plan is for right side, as Bieksa and Tanev are our only real options. Unless of course Garrison can make the switch, but none of our other left side D have been able to be effective on the right.

skywarp75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 03:58 PM
  #114
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,343
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I highly doubt Vancouver would move him at the deadline regardless...they are a lock to at least make the playoffs and will need him once there. They'll roll the dice and try to resign him for sure. If not, his rights become worth a 4th rd pick probably?

However...

If he was signed, we're looking at the Brent Burns Trade at a bare minimum. As an impending UFA, he returned a top six fwd, albeit a low ranking one by all counts, a B prospect and a late first.

Your probably looking at the frame work of that trade...except better. A forward that is a solid second liner, not one that struggles there, an A prospect, not blue chip by any means, but a really good one and a 1st rd...and depending on where that is probably a 2nd as well. You could do a top four defensemen as well.

Thats just for Edler.

As for Schneider...probably a top line fwd, or something similar to the edler package.

From the jets, fair value(not saying i would do it...but for the sake of value and because it is the team i am the most familiar with)

E.Kane, Burmistrov, Klingberg/Kosmachuk, 1st, 2nd.

Once again...not saying id do it...but i think thats pretty fair value.
The only way the Jets can even think about a deal like this is if:

A) There are extensions for Edler and Schneider already in place
B) There are separate deals in place for Pavelec and possibly Buff to replace what we are losing in Kane, Burmi, as well as the prospect and pick.

No way would the Jets be dealing away young players like Kane and Burmistrov on rentals. And in no way does it make sense to make an already weak top 6 group even weaker to add a goalie to play with the goalie we just signed long term.

The value of this trade could possibly be debated (terrible for the Jets without extensions to Edler and Schneider, possibly acceptable with extensions), but the hockey angle to this proposal makes absolutely no sense to the Jets IMO.

Huffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 04:32 PM
  #115
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,601
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
The only way the Jets can even think about a deal like this is if:

A) There are extensions for Edler and Schneider already in place
B) There are separate deals in place for Pavelec and possibly Buff to replace what we are losing in Kane, Burmi, as well as the prospect and pick.

No way would the Jets be dealing away young players like Kane and Burmistrov on rentals. And in no way does it make sense to make an already weak top 6 group even weaker to add a goalie to play with the goalie we just signed long term.

The value of this trade could possibly be debated (terrible for the Jets without extensions to Edler and Schneider, possibly acceptable with extensions), but the hockey angle to this proposal makes absolutely no sense to the Jets IMO.
Schneider was extended for 3 years. Also, I think he was just gauging value, not that it makes sense for the Jets at this time.

Vankiller Whale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 04:54 PM
  #116
n00bxQb
Registered User
 
n00bxQb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I highly doubt Vancouver would move him at the deadline regardless...they are a lock to at least make the playoffs and will need him once there. They'll roll the dice and try to resign him for sure. If not, his rights become worth a 4th rd pick probably?

However...

If he was signed, we're looking at the Brent Burns Trade at a bare minimum. As an impending UFA, he returned a top six fwd, albeit a low ranking one by all counts, a B prospect and a late first.

Your probably looking at the frame work of that trade...except better. A forward that is a solid second liner, not one that struggles there, an A prospect, not blue chip by any means, but a really good one and a 1st rd...and depending on where that is probably a 2nd as well. You could do a top four defensemen as well.

Thats just for Edler.

As for Schneider...probably a top line fwd, or something similar to the edler package.

From the jets, fair value(not saying i would do it...but for the sake of value and because it is the team i am the most familiar with)

E.Kane, Burmistrov, Klingberg/Kosmachuk, 1st, 2nd.

Once again...not saying id do it...but i think thats pretty fair value.
Hey, according to certain Minnesota fans, Setoguchi is so good that they wouldn't have room in their system for Lupul. How can you say Seto struggles as a 2nd liner?


Last edited by n00bxQb: 12-18-2012 at 05:09 PM.
n00bxQb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 05:36 PM
  #117
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,150
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
The only way the Jets can even think about a deal like this is if:

A) There are extensions for Edler and Schneider already in place
B) There are separate deals in place for Pavelec and possibly Buff to replace what we are losing in Kane, Burmi, as well as the prospect and pick.

No way would the Jets be dealing away young players like Kane and Burmistrov on rentals. And in no way does it make sense to make an already weak top 6 group even weaker to add a goalie to play with the goalie we just signed long term.

The value of this trade could possibly be debated (terrible for the Jets without extensions to Edler and Schneider, possibly acceptable with extensions), but the hockey angle to this proposal makes absolutely no sense to the Jets IMO.
Hey...I never said it did. In fact I said i wouldn't do it. I wrote it out purely from a value perspective.

sully1410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 06:35 PM
  #118
blankall
Registered User
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
When he was traded to SJ he was heading into his last season of RFA, just like Edler is, and he still got a great return. Edler probably isn't worth as much now due to the lockout, but if he were to be traded before the season starts I'd wager there would still be some nice pieces coming back.
Well Burns still had one full season left. At this point, you are not getting a full season of Edler.

Both players have had injury woes: Burns with his concussion and Edler with his back. Edler has, however, just been cleared to play yesterday:

http://www.northumberlandtoday.com/2...red-locked-out

Burns played an 80 game season and proved that he was healthy before being traded. Edler does not have that opportunity and this is not his first back issue, so there will be some speculation his injuries may be more chronic.

It was:

Burns and a high 2nd; for
Setoguchi, Coyle, and a late 1st.

Setoguchi after a brilliant 2008/2009 season struggled through 2009/2010 and 2010/2011. Coyle had a good but not great year in the NCAA before being traded, but he's a big centre.

Edler as a rental, has less value than the above...in short it's worth it for the Canucks to hang onto him and try to re-sign him.

blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 07:49 PM
  #119
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,343
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Schneider was extended for 3 years. Also, I think he was just gauging value, not that it makes sense for the Jets at this time.
So only 2 years after the lockout though right? While he's not a soon to be UFA, a guy with 2 years left seems like a short term deal when the guys going the other way are 20 years old and have many years of team control ahead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Hey...I never said it did. In fact I said i wouldn't do it. I wrote it out purely from a value perspective.
I hear ya, while I don't think it's good value unless Edler and Schneider stay in Winnipeg long term, my post was to comment from the hockey perspective, where I don't think it makes any sense (and I think you agree).

Huffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 10:31 PM
  #120
Cogburn
Registered User
 
Cogburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,744
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
So only 2 years after the lockout though right? While he's not a soon to be UFA, a guy with 2 years left seems like a short term deal when the guys going the other way are 20 years old and have many years of team control ahead.
Not that I want to force the guy down your throat...but 2 years, potentially plus if the NHLPA disbands, is plenty of time to negotiate an extension, especially since we can't resign him for another year anyway. 1-3 years is too short, any longer is too long, no one seems happy with anyones contract it seems

Cogburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 11:14 PM
  #121
PG Canuck
Moderator
 
PG Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince George, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,555
vCash: 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I really wouldn't be interested in doing this unless we were getting a return around something like Kessel/Kane.
I'd ask for Gillis' head if he pursued Phil Kessel with Schneider AND Edler.

PG Canuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 11:15 PM
  #122
PG Canuck
Moderator
 
PG Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince George, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,555
vCash: 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
What if the Leafs would offer Morgan Rielly, Tyler Bozak, and James Reimer? Would you consider that?

Or the Oilers offered: Jordan Eberle +, + ? Would you consider that?

The Canucks now have Garrison to replace Edler. I actually see Edler being traded; he is now a redundant piece, who carries significant value.
Edler is redundant?????

PG Canuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 08:11 AM
  #123
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,343
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Not that I want to force the guy down your throat...but 2 years, potentially plus if the NHLPA disbands, is plenty of time to negotiate an extension, especially since we can't resign him for another year anyway. 1-3 years is too short, any longer is too long, no one seems happy with anyones contract it seems
I hear what you're saying, it's not like 2 years is nothing, just that it seems short compared to how many years the guys going other way are under team control.

Huffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 09:45 AM
  #124
LPH
[hello] :)
 
LPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Granduland
Country: United States
Posts: 40,587
vCash: 50
I want a top line player

not a package of players

LPH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 09:59 AM
  #125
Luck 6
\\_______
 
Luck 6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 7,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I want a top line player

not a package of players
A young player who looks like they will be a top line player in the near future is attractive too. Someone in the mold of Evander Kane, for example. I don't imagine he'd be available as Winnipeg have a need for 1st line talents, but someone in that class of player.

With that said, I still stand strong in my position that Edler is not available for an upgrade at forward. Without Edler, our defense is as follows:

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Garrison-Ballard
Alberts-Tanev

That isn't a Stanley Cup winning blueline. If Hamhuis, Garrison, or Bieksa got injured in the playoffs we'd essentially be in shambles. Heck, even if Ballard went down we'd be in trouble. With Edler...

Edler-Garrison
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Ballard-Tanev

That's a stable blueline. Ballard-Tanev and Hamhuis-Bieksa have proven chemistry. Having Ballard and Tanev on our bottom pairing is a treat, as either of those guys can step into our top 4 with ease. We need that, injuries WILL happen over a long playoff run.

Luck 6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.