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Old
12-18-2012, 01:48 PM
  #1
Gm0ney
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Decertification/Contracts Void

If it should somehow come to pass that the NHLPA disclaims interest or decertifies and further that the courts rule that contracts negotiated under the old CBA are voided, making every player is an unrestricted free agent, what happens to the players on the Jets?

I'm inclined to believe quite a few players will stick with their teams, but some will be lured away by better offers, some will be dumped if the team can upgrade, some will just want to play somewhere else...

So who stays with the Jets?

Who goes?

What prospects get poached?

Who does the team target to bring in?

Or is this kind of wild speculation too open ended in the unfathomable world of league-wide unrestricted free agency?

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12-18-2012, 01:56 PM
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DespoticNewt
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It would be exactly like delivering a 7 layer cake to a Jenny Craig Weight Watchers meeting - a feeding frenzy born of absolute chaos. I'm not going to entertain speculation because this position seems as likely to succeed as pissing away a snowman.

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12-18-2012, 02:00 PM
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videofarmer
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I imagine there would be 6 really good teams. I think the Jets would end up in the middle of the pack and would keep about half of the roster. But who can say? That's just a wild hunch that will probably not be tested. A part of me does have a morbid curiosity to see what would happen if teams started picking sticks out of the pile, but I think it would ultimately be bad for the NHL.

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12-18-2012, 02:12 PM
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Jet
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IF DoI goes through and IF contracts are voided, I believe the NHL has a plan.

Now, I have NO facts or sources to back this. I do believe however that the NHL will amalgamate. They will give every owner a share of the league based on revenue percentage. In this way, they have complete control over 'staffing' the league.

Goodbye guaranteed contracts. Goodbye players bargaining power. The league will probably assign players who's rights are currently held by a team to that team. Those who are legitimate free agents will probably be free to sign with whomever under salary caps set by the league.

There is no way at all I can see this ending well for the players.

Most likely? The players will back down, knowing they don't have a case

Second most likely? The judge will tell them to f off, knowing full well this is not a legitimate DoI but rather a tactic.

The ONLY way this works out well for the players is if the NHL buckles (not happening) or if they are successful with DoI and the NHL somehow fails at amalgamating, or the players successfully sue the league.

I put the chances of this ending well for the players at about 2%. They put their hopes in the hands of a madman and have already paid an enormous cost.

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12-18-2012, 02:34 PM
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If that happened I could honestly see TNSE as being quite strong. They would pay to get some elite talent I'm sure. I'd think theyd probably top 10 in salary paid easily.

Edit: I'd imagine they would probably make a great offer to Toews

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12-18-2012, 02:44 PM
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Maybe if all contracts are void then the teams may hold a draft?

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12-18-2012, 03:18 PM
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JetsHomer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldo View Post
Maybe if all contracts are void then the teams may hold a draft?
Nope. If this scenario its cause courts ruled in favour of the players. No cba so players would never agree to a draft.

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12-18-2012, 03:56 PM
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sully1410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DespoticNewt;56649761[B
]It would be exactly like delivering a 7 layer cake to a Jenny Craig Weight Watchers meeting - a feeding frenzy born of absolute chaos[/B]. I'm not going to entertain speculation because this position seems as likely to succeed as pissing away a snowman.
Been to a lot of those have you?

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12-18-2012, 04:10 PM
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I'm pretty sure the owners and the cadre of high-fallutin legal beagles they have on staff have had lengthy discussions/planning seesions examining every possible eventuality here. I'd be willing to bet they have contingency plans in place for pretty much every conceivable outcome.

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12-18-2012, 04:55 PM
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Gm0ney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
IF DoI goes through and IF contracts are voided, I believe the NHL has a plan.

Now, I have NO facts or sources to back this. I do believe however that the NHL will amalgamate. They will give every owner a share of the league based on revenue percentage. In this way, they have complete control over 'staffing' the league.

Goodbye guaranteed contracts. Goodbye players bargaining power. The league will probably assign players who's rights are currently held by a team to that team. Those who are legitimate free agents will probably be free to sign with whomever under salary caps set by the league.

There is no way at all I can see this ending well for the players.

Most likely? The players will back down, knowing they don't have a case

Second most likely? The judge will tell them to f off, knowing full well this is not a legitimate DoI but rather a tactic.

The ONLY way this works out well for the players is if the NHL buckles (not happening) or if they are successful with DoI and the NHL somehow fails at amalgamating, or the players successfully sue the league.

I put the chances of this ending well for the players at about 2%. They put their hopes in the hands of a madman and have already paid an enormous cost.
Reorganizing as a single entity would be interesting - not sure if it's feasible or legal (isn't there some example of a league that tried this?). I think you'd have to give every owner an equal share in the partnership then divide revenues by some formula each year to approximate each "unit's" contribution. Alternately, you could set the cap so low that even the Islanders and Coyotes would make a profit, but I think that would put the NHL below the KHL cap.

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Old
12-18-2012, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
IF DoI goes through and IF contracts are voided, I believe the NHL has a plan.

Now, I have NO facts or sources to back this. I do believe however that the NHL will amalgamate. They will give every owner a share of the league based on revenue percentage. In this way, they have complete control over 'staffing' the league.

Goodbye guaranteed contracts. Goodbye players bargaining power. The league will probably assign players who's rights are currently held by a team to that team. Those who are legitimate free agents will probably be free to sign with whomever under salary caps set by the league.

There is no way at all I can see this ending well for the players.

Most likely? The players will back down, knowing they don't have a case

Second most likely? The judge will tell them to f off, knowing full well this is not a legitimate DoI but rather a tactic.

The ONLY way this works out well for the players is if the NHL buckles (not happening) or if they are successful with DoI and the NHL somehow fails at amalgamating, or the players successfully sue the league.

I put the chances of this ending well for the players at about 2%. They put their hopes in the hands of a madman and have already paid an enormous cost.
90% of the things you suggest in your post are against US and canadian collusion law and couldn't happen

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12-18-2012, 05:31 PM
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sully1410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
90% of the things you suggest in your post are against US and canadian collusion law and couldn't happen
I was going to say, but i wasnt sure. I think its illegal for owners of opposing products, or in this case, teams to band together and control the market. Even if there is no union. Thats what anti-trust legislation is...i thought anyways.

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Old
12-18-2012, 10:43 PM
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It would be nice to see Hainsey and Antro playing for what they are worth which is about 30% of what they get now.

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
It would be nice to see Hainsey and Antro playing for what they are worth which is about 30% of what they get now.
I'd say Antro is worth 2 mil.

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Old
12-19-2012, 04:18 PM
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Jet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
90% of the things you suggest in your post are against US and canadian collusion law and couldn't happen
Not if they amalgamate. How exactly do you think that Burger King or any other franchised business has standardized employee benefits and renumeration? If you are one company you aren't 'colluding' with anyone. You are one business.

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Old
12-19-2012, 04:37 PM
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Evander doesn't seem to mind if his contract becomes null and void.

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12-19-2012, 04:43 PM
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JetsHomer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
Not if they amalgamate. How exactly do you think that Burger King or any other franchised business has standardized employee benefits and renumeration? If you are one company you aren't 'colluding' with anyone. You are one business.
Burger King doesn't have a monopoly on the market. Nhl does in theirs. It would be like if all the big food franchises conspired to keep take away employee benefits. That would be illegal.

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Old
12-19-2012, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
Burger King doesn't have a monopoly on the market. Nhl does in theirs. It would be like if all the big food franchises conspired to keep take away employee benefits. That would be illegal.
Major League soccer exists as a single business entity so it is doable. Where they might get into trouble is that they have existed as a joint venture so they may have trouble convincing the courts to allow them to change their business makeup. Personally I doubt it comes even remotly close to this I still feel that both sides will sign an agreement in the next 2-3 weeks.

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Old
12-19-2012, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
Burger King doesn't have a monopoly on the market. Nhl does in theirs. It would be like if all the big food franchises conspired to keep take away employee benefits. That would be illegal.
The KHL says hi.

As also explained above MLS does it. I can't say for sure if it would be allowed but I don't think it's quite as cut and dried as you make it out to be.

At the end of the day, no way the PA is successful with DoI anyways, so it's a moot point.

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12-20-2012, 12:28 AM
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If that were the case, I wonder how widely Chipman/Thomson would be willing to open their wallets.

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12-20-2012, 09:30 AM
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Gm0ney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
The KHL says hi.

As also explained above MLS does it. I can't say for sure if it would be allowed but I don't think it's quite as cut and dried as you make it out to be.

At the end of the day, no way the PA is successful with DoI anyways, so it's a moot point.
The MLS was set up that way from the beginning. I think it would be trickier to take an existing group of single competing entities and reorganize them as a single unit.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:17 AM
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The Player agents wouldn't allow their players to be "alotted" to teams like cattle.

The owners don't want to deal outside of a CBA with player agents. They really don't

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Old
12-20-2012, 01:13 PM
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So, doesn't look like I am the only one that believes amalgamation, or centralization is a possibility, or even perhaps an NHL endgame. This post was taken from the Oilers board:

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
If you are referring to the voiding of contracts...it is specifically stated in the SPC that every player signed.
Yes it is specifically stated that without a CBA it has no value, and any successor CBA will change the terms of the SPC andvalue of the contract.

About 4 months ago i hinted at all of this being a possible end game but no one believed me. the conversation came from teams continuing to sign players and some fans thinking the players were right in their sense of entitlement to what they signed. My point was that not signing players would look like collusion... and that the SPC clearly states those contracts are of a certain share value for the PA revenue portion. That is all they are share size of the PA portion. They arent entitled to any specific cash value.
Remember when everyone was asking if Bettman and the league would throw out the Dipietro contract because it was the first that went beyond the CBA? Bettmans response was that it was a proper contract so it was allowed but would be held to the terms of any future successor CBA and that in signing the contract the player was agreeing to that in exchange for the security of a guarantee of employment in the NHL.

Its been known for a long time. I suspect the reason why Bob Mac and others havent talked about it much is becuase they dont need to and also i dont think the professionals want to kick Bettmans plan.

I have also been very clear since before the lockout that the league has looked into centralizing contracts. Supporting other leagues - transfer funds for NHL players, transfer deals... has greatly helped the NHLs position to centralize their contracts and run as one entity which happens to have different regional branches. Its a unique position to the NHL that they clearly have competition at home and abroad for player services and it would be the NHLs position that it is the BRANDING and ENTERTAINMENT packaging, combined with BUSINESS DECISIONS that seperates it from the competitors and not some idea of market control. The players have happily proven this. Coke doesnt have a monopoly and make more than most countries just because Pepsi sucks. Coke advertises and packages and has its own product which out earns others and can use its market influence to make relationships and ask those partners to not sell cmpeting products. completely legal. Try getting a Coke at KFC. The NHL is the best league but not because it is a monopoly...its because they are the COKE of their industry. Guilty of nothing. Companies are free to try to compete and do.

In the early spring of 2004- as word got out Bettman was going to formally file for legal right to allow replacement players- the League got an offer for the purchase of the league. Under the 300M dollar purchase the league would be re-organized to be centrally controlled and contracted. the franchises or branches would still be individually owned but the league headquarters would do all contracts and negotiations and determine who plays where. There would be an end to the draft (something that has always made it impossible to centralize the business) and RFA/UFA.
Bettman, as was his duty, informed the BOG and owners of the offer but advised them against it. Everything the league and frnachises had been short term and long term building towards would be erased or in jeopardy. Also Bettman had a very strong belief that fans, who already blamed him for missed goals, off sides, and hole in nets.. pretty much making him out to be in control of the games, would start calling games as fixed by him and head office officials. For the good of the game and the franchises the cost certainty of centralizing wasnot very attractive. Also the NHL did not have as many world wide competitors. Now the situations have changed.

Did the NHL want this? I said 4 months ago that this is something Bettman and the NHL never wanted but if it comes to it they will get cost certainty in a big way. the nhl will control all contracts because it will legally be the business with franchises as only branches of the main NHL arm. Franchise values qwill skyrocket.
The NHL will make unilateral business decisions regarding labor costs, allignment, expansion, exhibition, relocation and a host of other topics. No union to have to deal with.
But the NHL as we know it would no longer exist.

IVE TALKED ABOUT THIS SINCE AUGUST. The league is definitely not surprised or worried. They gave their best offer as well. Dont expect the NHL to feel pushed in a corner...they have been prepared all along (not all summer ...ALL ALONG...the SPC made in 05 shows how prepared they are)

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Old
12-20-2012, 04:27 PM
  #24
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Decertify and contract voids will kill the League

If Decertify, the players will file anti-trust suit
- No more Salary Caps
- No more Revenue Sharing
- Non-profitable teams will fold or relocate
- Eventually Winnipeg will lose its team again years down the road due to rising salaries
- Back to the 80s and 90s we go

Contract Voided:
- Every NHL player up for grabs
- Feeding Frenzy
- TrueNorth would have to spend
- Players being sold to the highest bidder

As you all can see these 2 things will hurt our Franchise and even kill it in due time.

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01-02-2013, 04:11 PM
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I've been around a few negotiations in my time, on both sides of the table. What I can almost assure you is, if the player's union dissolves, the NHL as we know it today will cease to exist. What you will see is a complete rewrite of how the league will operate under the board of director's conditions.

There will be no "feeding frenzy" or "mad chaos" as a couple of people suggested here in regards to player signings. You will see a board united as one, in righting a crooked ship. The players will be 100% screwed and begging for a job under any condition. Once the players become unprotected by a union, they are doomed.

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