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Regarding the Tim Thomas trade rumors..

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Old
12-17-2012, 11:01 AM
  #126
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Ask any of the Devil's fans and they will admit that a big reason why they lost was that the Kings had a big edge in goal. They got to the finals despite Brodeur not because of him. He wasn't close to the same goalie that won them so many cups.

Again what would you choose? A 50% chance of getting to the final with a 10% chance to win, or a 35% chance of getting to the final with a 20% chance to win.
Getting to the final with a chance to win. 20 times out of 10.

Any time you've gotten to the Final, even if you get swept, you've had a great year.

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12-17-2012, 11:06 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
I dunno KOB, not sure I'd even sign him on a shortened season.

I usually hate throwing people into the fire, but since Tuuka has a pretty good track record I think we've reached the point where he needs to either sink or swim as the starter.

I also think Tuuka is a tremendous goalie and we've been spoiled the last number of years with arguably the best duo in the NHL. Other teams would be ecstatic starting Rask while we're largely reluctant about it
It's about putting the best team on the ice you can. Thomas and Rask is just a better goalie tandem than Rask and Khudobin. Period, end of sentence. There's no way around that admission and once you admit that there becomes no point in making any strictly hockey-related argument in favor of walking away from Thomas if he was willing to come back.

I've said for years that I want to wait for Rask to beat Thomas out fairly for the starting goaltender's job before handing it to him. I stand by that. If Thomas is as ooooooooooooold as some of you think, it should be a matter of a couple weeks and then we have a young stud who's made the job his own, like Thomas did, rather one that's been handed the job Luongo-style. I think that is how you get the best Tuukka you can get.

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12-17-2012, 10:27 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by BrainOfJ View Post
JMiller...I have to say...I really respect you looking past the politics and rooting for Thomas. I know you definitely don't agree with his viewpoints..it's good to see someone with perspective
Absolutely, you have to respect that. Some are totally incapable of this.

Not that I ever read JMiller's posts, anyway.

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12-17-2012, 10:36 PM
  #129
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i would have sold my soul for a stanley cup...i really don't care about a goalies view points...as long as he isn't hurting anybody.

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12-17-2012, 11:22 PM
  #130
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Has there been any more rumors of a possible trade lately or is this carry over from the summer discussion? Just wanted to know in case I missed something.

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12-17-2012, 11:26 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
Has there been any more rumors of a possible trade lately or is this carry over from the summer discussion? Just wanted to know in case I missed something.
Nah. The OP asked, and a discussion erupted out of it.

God I wish I could sit down and watch a hockey game and not think of anything else for a while.

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12-17-2012, 11:27 PM
  #132
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Lets see if he comes out of his bunker on Saturday.

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12-18-2012, 10:43 AM
  #133
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"Smart money" has lost on Tim Thomas his whole career and he beat Father Time when he became the oldest goalie to win the cup and the oldest player to win the Con Smyth. You can invent whatever % you want- but here in the real world Thomas has been Boston's best goaltender and has shown no signs of decline on the ice.
What Thomas has been able to do these last few years is incredible. But if you are looking for signs of decline, just look at last season. He wasn't as consistent as he had been the previous season. Yes, it was still a damn good season, but it wasn't 2010-11. Given where he is in his career, it is much more likely that he will continue to decline as opposed to regaining the form of 2010-11.

What Thomas provided for this fan base is incalculable, and I don't trivialize the deserved loyalty that many here have for him. Many would want him as the starter regardless of how he plays - he has earned the trust of the fanbase. If however you look at it from an analytical perspective, the inevitable decline is near or already in progress. He still may be good enough wherever the season starts. But good enough usually doesn't win Stanley. Ask a Devil's fan.

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12-18-2012, 11:27 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
What Thomas has been able to do these last few years is incredible. But if you are looking for signs of decline, just look at last season. He wasn't as consistent as he had been the previous season. Yes, it was still a damn good season, but it wasn't 2010-11.
Compared pretty nicely with what he did in 07-08. If Tuukka gave us a .920 SV% next year I'd call that a good performance. If that's a down year for Timmy at least 21 teams would take it.

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12-18-2012, 11:41 AM
  #135
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What Thomas has been able to do these last few years is incredible. But if you are looking for signs of decline, just look at last season. He wasn't as consistent as he had been the previous season. Yes, it was still a damn good season, but it wasn't 2010-11. Given where he is in his career, it is much more likely that he will continue to decline as opposed to regaining the form of 2010-11.

What Thomas provided for this fan base is incalculable, and I don't trivialize the deserved loyalty that many here have for him. Many would want him as the starter regardless of how he plays - he has earned the trust of the fanbase. If however you look at it from an analytical perspective, the inevitable decline is near or already in progress. He still may be good enough wherever the season starts. But good enough usually doesn't win Stanley. Ask a Devil's fan.
No goalie in NHL history would have been able to duplicate 2010-2011,it was a once in a lifetime performance.

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12-18-2012, 11:48 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
What Thomas has been able to do these last few years is incredible. But if you are looking for signs of decline, just look at last season. He wasn't as consistent as he had been the previous season. Yes, it was still a damn good season, but it wasn't 2010-11. Given where he is in his career, it is much more likely that he will continue to decline as opposed to regaining the form of 2010-11.

What Thomas provided for this fan base is incalculable, and I don't trivialize the deserved loyalty that many here have for him. Many would want him as the starter regardless of how he plays - he has earned the trust of the fanbase. If however you look at it from an analytical perspective, the inevitable decline is near or already in progress. He still may be good enough wherever the season starts. But good enough usually doesn't win Stanley. Ask a Devil's fan.
Remember, when Thomas was "inconsistent" last year it was while Rask was injured and unavailable. If we took your advice they would have been going into the post season last year with Turco in goal.

As always, the best player should get the ice.


Last edited by JMiller: 12-18-2012 at 11:58 AM.
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12-18-2012, 01:35 PM
  #137
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It wasn't the team in front of Thomas that was inconsistent? A bit part of that was a lack of effort in front of him...along with some coming down to earth to still be among the NHL's elite.

I have yet to see you answer though ...do you think we are better off with Rask-Khudobin or Thomas-Rask?

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12-18-2012, 01:50 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by BrainOfJ View Post
It wasn't the team in front of Thomas that was inconsistent? A bit part of that was a lack of effort in front of him...along with some coming down to earth to still be among the NHL's elite.

I have yet to see you answer though ...do you think we are better off with Rask-Khudobin or Thomas-Rask?
I'd take Thomas-Rask for sure.

Too bad we don't have that option.

Actually, we don't have the other option either....

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12-18-2012, 03:02 PM
  #139
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No goalie in NHL history would have been able to duplicate 2010-2011,it was a once in a lifetime performance.
Pretty much. New dead puck era or not, any time you set records in regular season save percentage, and win a Conn Smythe for a record setting three-game-7 playoff run, expecting anyone to duplicate that is just silly.

That said, Thomas came close to that level before, when he won the Vezina in 09. I wouldn't be shocked if he had at least 4 more years as an NHL regular starting goaltender in him if he decides he wants to get back on the ice and play.

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12-18-2012, 03:04 PM
  #140
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I'd take Thomas-Rask for sure.

Too bad we don't have that option.
If we don't have that option, I'd say it's good odds we took it away from ourselves.

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12-18-2012, 03:14 PM
  #141
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If we don't have that option, I'd say it's good odds we took it away from ourselves.
We? whatchyoo mean "We,"....Dojji?

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12-18-2012, 03:54 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by BrainOfJ View Post
It wasn't the team in front of Thomas that was inconsistent? A bit part of that was a lack of effort in front of him...along with some coming down to earth to still be among the NHL's elite.

I have yet to see you answer though ...do you think we are better off with Rask-Khudobin or Thomas-Rask?
What are you talking about?

From the last couple of years I've seen with the Thomas-Rask tandem, the team never really shows up for Rask, however, they more often than not show up for Thomas every game he is starting.

I'm fine with a Rask-Khudobin tandem, both are capable of getting their jobs done and have shown they can get it done well.

Thomas era is over, time to move on with the future franchise goalie with Rask. Rask has the capability of being elite, yes he has his faults, just like every other goalie. He is a great young goalie, as long as he stays healthy and can step it up just like the rest of the team come playoff time, Rask should and WILL do fine as our #1 goalie.

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12-18-2012, 05:12 PM
  #143
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What are you talking about?

From the last couple of years I've seen with the Thomas-Rask tandem, the team never really shows up for Rask, however, they more often than not show up for Thomas every game he is starting.

I'm fine with a Rask-Khudobin tandem, both are capable of getting their jobs done and have shown they can get it done well.

Thomas era is over, time to move on with the future franchise goalie with Rask. Rask has the capability of being elite, yes he has his faults, just like every other goalie. He is a great young goalie, as long as he stays healthy and can step it up just like the rest of the team come playoff time, Rask should and WILL do fine as our #1 goalie.
I'm talking about last year...responding to you saying that Thomas fell off(a fall off many goalies would kill for)..the team was awful last year outside of a 2 month stretch...and then Rask went down and Thomas was asked to seriously extend himself at the end of the year.

You're making your argument sound like even if Thomas was available...you wouldn't want him...which is just flat out dumb. If your argument is really just "well the Thomas era is over" than why are you bringing all of these fake stanley cup %'s and hypothetical drop offs to the table?

Khudobin hasnt shown a thing passed game 81 between two playoff bound teams playing their scrubs. No doubt he looked good in that game...but I would muuuuuuuch rather have Rask-Thomas...especially with Rask's lack of durability through his career so far. I don't doubt the Bruins would too.

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12-18-2012, 06:03 PM
  #144
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I'm talking about last year...responding to you saying that Thomas fell off(a fall off many goalies would kill for)..the team was awful last year outside of a 2 month stretch...and then Rask went down and Thomas was asked to seriously extend himself at the end of the year.

You're making your argument sound like even if Thomas was available...you wouldn't want him...which is just flat out dumb. If your argument is really just "well the Thomas era is over" than why are you bringing all of these fake stanley cup %'s and hypothetical drop offs to the table?

Khudobin hasnt shown a thing passed game 81 between two playoff bound teams playing their scrubs. No doubt he looked good in that game...but I would muuuuuuuch rather have Rask-Thomas...especially with Rask's lack of durability through his career so far. I don't doubt the Bruins would too.
1) I wasn't the one who said that Thomas has fallen off.

2) If Thomas doesn't want to play for the Bruins, how could I root for someone who is more worried about taking time off than competing and completing his contract like every other player does?

3) I think everyone would prefer to roll with a Thomas-Rask tandem as it would be the best chance of us winning in the year or two that Thomas has left (that's if he is even healthy and can keep performing at a high level despite him being 40 pretty soon). But Rask to me has more than enough talent and capability of taking the team over.

4) You're *****ing about the team not playing in front of Thomas? I'll one up you on that regard, how about when the whole team fell flat on their faces back in 2010 against the Flyers? Rask has shown he can hang with the best goalies in the game, at such a young age too. Everybody calls Rask out on that series, yet we had half the team we did in 2010 than in 2011.

No doubt Thomas is a great goalie, I'm not disputing that at all. I just would rather go in a different direction in goal, Rask is great and has all the tools to be successful. With the Bruins defensive system, he should do just fine just like Thomas has been doing.

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12-18-2012, 07:05 PM
  #145
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We? whatchyoo mean "We,"....Dojji?
I mean "we." As in, the town itself. The media mostly, but also the fan community. We turned our backs on TT before he turned his back on us. And I think most of us realize that deep down.

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12-18-2012, 07:44 PM
  #146
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1) I wasn't the one who said that Thomas has fallen off.
My mistake...you responded so I assumed it was just through the flow of the convo.

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2) If Thomas doesn't want to play for the Bruins, how could I root for someone who is more worried about taking time off than competing and completing his contract like every other player does?
Because there are bigger things in life. I have no problem with someone putting their family over their job. It may be a bit close to me cause I just lost a family member...but this game, this team. It means nothing. Who are you to judge him for that? If he wanted to come back...I would welcome him with open arms because it makes us a better hockey team...but I will not hold it against the guy who has spent the better part of his life away from his loved ones trying to make it.

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3) I think everyone would prefer to roll with a Thomas-Rask tandem as it would be the best chance of us winning in the year or two that Thomas has left (that's if he is even healthy and can keep performing at a high level despite him being 40 pretty soon). But Rask to me has more than enough talent and capability of taking the team over.
Then why are you arguing against Thomas being on the team? What is this nonsense about 20% Chance, smart money, all goalies above 40, etc.?

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4) You're *****ing about the team not playing in front of Thomas? I'll one up you on that regard, how about when the whole team fell flat on their faces back in 2010 against the Flyers? Rask has shown he can hang with the best goalies in the game, at such a young age too. Everybody calls Rask out on that series, yet we had half the team we did in 2010 than in 2011.
And even with twice the team Rask had(your words)...it took the greatest goalie performance in recent if not all playoff history and 3 game 7's to win it all. I don't see us as better off without thomas...nor was Rask good in games 4 to 7 either. It is one thing to have the team not show up...there was a solid mix of both.

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No doubt Thomas is a great goalie, I'm not disputing that at all. I just would rather go in a different direction in goal, Rask is great and has all the tools to be successful. With the Bruins defensive system, he should do just fine just like Thomas has been doing.
I think it'll be a big ol case of "you dont know what youve got until its gone"...as Thomas has been heavily heavily depended on in his time here. I hope I am wrong.

And I hope Rask can finally stay healthy...cause Khudobin-Svedberg/Hutch/whoever is brutal.

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12-19-2012, 09:03 AM
  #147
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What Thomas has been able to do these last few years is incredible. But if you are looking for signs of decline, just look at last season. He wasn't as consistent as he had been the previous season. Yes, it was still a damn good season, but it wasn't 2010-11. Given where he is in his career, it is much more likely that he will continue to decline as opposed to regaining the form of 2010-11.

What Thomas provided for this fan base is incalculable, and I don't trivialize the deserved loyalty that many here have for him. Many would want him as the starter regardless of how he plays - he has earned the trust of the fanbase. If however you look at it from an analytical perspective, the inevitable decline is near or already in progress. He still may be good enough wherever the season starts. But good enough usually doesn't win Stanley. Ask a Devil's fan.
While nobody can disagree that he let in softies from time to time, show me a goalie who doesn`t let those in. The truth was/is, Timmy set that bar of expectations so high that it will be some time before another goalie accomplished what he did. The ENTIRE team last year had long stretches where they struggled in all 3 zones and as we have all seen, eventually, a goalie can`t continue to bail out the team all the time.

In the Cup year, even during that insane winning/point streak they had, Timmy literally stole points when the team didn`t deserve any, last year, he stole a few too, but couldn`t do it as much as in the previous season, not shocking. This team looked bloody tired all season, some could argue disinterested at times, and when that happens, it usually isn`t just one or two players, it seems everyone goes along for that ride.

I have no clue where Timmy finished stat-wise, problem is, in his time in Boston, the guy won far more games than he ever lost in a spoked B uniform, had an unreal playoff run, and provided this fan his first ever Cup celebration after over 30 years of watching Bruin hockey and for THAT, I will always be a Timmy fan. He did what we want from a #1 to do, stop pucks when it counts, no goalie will ever be able to do it consistently and all the time (Brodeur up to last year, looked awful come playoff time in his previous 2-3 visits to the playoffs) but nobody questions his greatness.

Let us also not forget, playing behind Corvo/Zanon and to a lesser degree, Matau(spelling?) will always cause fits for goalies.

Not a massive fan of Timmy`s off ice beliefs however, I don`t look to professional athlete`s to provide me with setting the bar of personal morals/values

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12-19-2012, 09:35 AM
  #148
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I mean "we." As in, the town itself. The media mostly, but also the fan community. We turned our backs on TT before he turned his back on us. And I think most of us realize that deep down.
I don't want to be lumped into that category. The only negative things I've ever said about TT were strictly on-ice related, and those were years ago.

Besides, I think if he wanted to play, he'd be just as happy playing in Boston as anywhere else.

Got no way to prove that of course, and I do agree that the media conducted themselves poorly with regards to TT, but I'm not sure I put much stock in the "He was run out of town" theories.

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12-19-2012, 10:44 AM
  #149
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It's about putting the best team on the ice you can. Thomas and Rask is just a better goalie tandem than Rask and Khudobin. Period, end of sentence. There's no way around that admission and once you admit that there becomes no point in making any strictly hockey-related argument in favor of walking away from Thomas if he was willing to come back.

I've said for years that I want to wait for Rask to beat Thomas out fairly for the starting goaltender's job before handing it to him. I stand by that. If Thomas is as ooooooooooooold as some of you think, it should be a matter of a couple weeks and then we have a young stud who's made the job his own, like Thomas did, rather one that's been handed the job Luongo-style. I think that is how you get the best Tuukka you can get.
Of course there is, how the hell do you know Thomas will be the same goalie after his little hiatus? Plus, Thomas likely wont come back here to be a backup AND for much less than what he was making before, if ANYTHING less.

If we somehow realized Thomas was the same goalie he was before and hasnt packed on 50 pounds in preparation for the end of the world, AND he signed a contract much less than his previous 5 million, I'd consider bringing him back for the short term.

With that said though, if Thomas is still a great goalie hed want a lucrative contract with years, are we willing to give him a multi year deal? Hes going to be a UFA, any team would love Timmy, and more teams interested means big money.

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12-19-2012, 10:48 AM
  #150
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My mistake...you responded so I assumed it was just through the flow of the convo.



Because there are bigger things in life. I have no problem with someone putting their family over their job. It may be a bit close to me cause I just lost a family member...but this game, this team. It means nothing. Who are you to judge him for that? If he wanted to come back...I would welcome him with open arms because it makes us a better hockey team...but I will not hold it against the guy who has spent the better part of his life away from his loved ones trying to make it.



Then why are you arguing against Thomas being on the team? What is this nonsense about 20% Chance, smart money, all goalies above 40, etc.?



And even with twice the team Rask had(your words)...it took the greatest goalie performance in recent if not all playoff history and 3 game 7's to win it all. I don't see us as better off without thomas...nor was Rask good in games 4 to 7 either. It is one thing to have the team not show up...there was a solid mix of both.



I think it'll be a big ol case of "you dont know what youve got until its gone"...as Thomas has been heavily heavily depended on in his time here. I hope I am wrong.

And I hope Rask can finally stay healthy...cause Khudobin-Svedberg/Hutch/whoever is brutal.
It comes down to A. Can TT be the same goalie and B. will his money demands price himself out of Boston? Are we prepared to pay 8+ million on our goalies? Those are the biggest issues to me.

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