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Winnipeg Jets Prospect Thread 2012-13 (Part II)

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Old
12-17-2012, 09:36 PM
  #201
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I just think it was a bad move in general. Using a high 2nd on a guy whose ultimate ceiling was as a 3rd line centre.
Yeah. That is what bugged me.

Perhaps his late season offensive outburst got the Jets brass dreaming of Lucic. I am always wary of late risers.

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12-17-2012, 09:40 PM
  #202
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Come on now guys, I know not everyone thinks he's a bust already but everyone seems quite down on Sutter at the moment. Give it some time.

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12-18-2012, 12:47 AM
  #203
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Didn't guys like Eberle and Giroux play two more seasons in junior after being drafted?
Not all draft picks are equal. Late birthdays are technically finishing their 18 year old years when they are drafted...versus regular picks like Eberle and Giroux and Scheifele are finishing their 17 year old year when drafted. So it's not necessarily surprising when a 19 year old fails to make the NHL team, and spends two more years in junior. But with late birthdays like Sutter, the second year after they are drafted is their 20 year old year, so it IS quite concerning when they fail to make the AHL. They can be assigned to the AHL in their second year after being drafted, unlike "normal" picks. This year is Sutter's 19 year old year and should be looked upon it as such (same as Scheifele's year this year). Imagine if Scheifele got sent back to junior next year...

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12-18-2012, 07:14 PM
  #204
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WHL



Saskatoon Blades 1 - Swift Current Broncos 3
Last Updated: Final

Lukas Sutter: 0-0-0 -2 9PIM
1 - SAS L. Sutter, 9:06 - Roughing, 2 min
1 - SAS L. Sutter, 13:35 - Roughing, 2 min (PP)
1 - SAS L. Sutter, 13:35 - Major-Fighting, 5 min



Adam Lowry: 2-0-2 +2 2PIM
2. S.C A. Lowry, (22) (R. Scarlett, D. Dale), 11:18
3. S.C A. Lowry, (23) (C. Cave, D. Heatherington), 14:07
3 - S.C A. Lowry, 3:44 - Holding, 2 min (PP)



Tri-City Americans 2 - Seattle Thunderbirds 1
Last Updated: End 2nd

Zach Yuen: 0-0-0 +2 0PIM

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12-18-2012, 07:40 PM
  #205
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fwiw, Sutter's played a real solid shut down role for the Blades over the past 3-4 weeks. He's strong on faceoffs and is always agitating the guys he is assigned to shut down. Sucks that we wasted a 2nd rounder on him, true. I hope Jets brass were just dealing with a post-Stanley stiffy over the size of the Kings and decided to draft that way for one year, learning from their mistakes. Jets definitely got Brett Sutter instead of Brandon.

One thing, though. Lots of posters on here and other parts of HF were pretty high on Sutter pre-draft. The esteemed Renegade Stylings even came on this board saying how lucky we were to get him and said Sutter went early, but just barely. Unless all these HF regulars are full of crap (which actually wouldn't surprise me as there lots of folks on HF who talk with authority but really know no more than the casual viewer) you gotta think there is some skill and potential hidden beneath all those PIMs and horrible +/-. Then again, he's been fallen in the depth chart behind a 16 year old center for 2nd line duty during a Mem Cup run so no tangible reason to believe he is any sort of playmaker/scorer.

Maybe he can skate up the ice and clear room for Yuen to skate pretty to the net in a couple of years.

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12-18-2012, 07:57 PM
  #206
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Sutter just trashed someone in a fight. As much trouble as he's having generating offense, he's having LITTLE trouble with the fisticuffs.

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12-18-2012, 08:02 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Not all draft picks are equal. Late birthdays are technically finishing their 18 year old years when they are drafted...versus regular picks like Eberle and Giroux and Scheifele are finishing their 17 year old year when drafted. So it's not necessarily surprising when a 19 year old fails to make the NHL team, and spends two more years in junior. But with late birthdays like Sutter, the second year after they are drafted is their 20 year old year, so it IS quite concerning when they fail to make the AHL. They can be assigned to the AHL in their second year after being drafted, unlike "normal" picks. This year is Sutter's 19 year old year and should be looked upon it as such (same as Scheifele's year this year). Imagine if Scheifele got sent back to junior next year...
Ahh, gotcha. I hear with what you are saying in regards to the late birthday thing. I guess I don't know if that's more important than the actual amount of games played and practices attended by players playing the same amount of seasons in the CHL.

So I guess I'm just thinking that a late birthday could be more physically ready after their second year after being drafted (20 year old year), but in terms of games played and CHL development they would be in the same place as other guys regardless of age.

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12-18-2012, 08:16 PM
  #208
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Ugh. Lowry just got rocked - clean shoulder to shoulder hit. He had just recieved a pass, and was in a bit of a vulnerable position. Hope he's OK.

Currently Swift Current leads the Blades 1-0 in the 2nd.

EDIT: Haha! And just as I was worried about the hit he took, he was out on the PK and ended up on a breakaway. Didn't convert, but it was close. Gump, you're right: his skating is looking WAY better.

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12-18-2012, 08:27 PM
  #209
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Lowry with a nice dirty goal off a rebound to make it 2-0 in the 2nd. That's at least a goal in every game for the last 7 games for him.

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12-18-2012, 08:31 PM
  #210
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Sutter with a nice drive to the net - goal was waved off. Doing a video replay of it now...

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12-18-2012, 08:52 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Sutter just trashed someone in a fight. As much trouble as he's having generating offense, he's having LITTLE trouble with the fisticuffs.
Hopefully that makes it to our prospect highlights.

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12-18-2012, 09:14 PM
  #212
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Ahh, gotcha. I hear with what you are saying in regards to the late birthday thing. I guess I don't know if that's more important than the actual amount of games played and practices attended by players playing the same amount of seasons in the CHL.

So I guess I'm just thinking that a late birthday could be more physically ready after their second year after being drafted (20 year old year), but in terms of games played and CHL development they would be in the same place as other guys regardless of age.
WHL uses birth year, not draft year. So in every respect, guys like Sutter are 19 year olds. They have had the exact same amount of time eligible to be in the WHL as a Scheifele at 19. They should be just as physically developed by the end of their 19 year old year as a regular age draftee who finishes their 19 year old year. The stupid NHL makes things confusing by making certain birthdays wait a year for being drafted, but in any other respect, Sutter is like an 11 draftee. IMO, he should be treated as such.

Remember though, I am not saying Sutter has to step into NHL. But he needs to be ready to play AHL or even ECHL, just like ANY other 20 year old. If you cannot even crack an AHL/ECHL roster (especially a talent poor St. John's lineup) at 20, you are done as an NHL prospect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin's Ghost View Post
fwiw, Sutter's played a real solid shut down role for the Blades over the past 3-4 weeks. He's strong on faceoffs and is always agitating the guys he is assigned to shut down. Sucks that we wasted a 2nd rounder on him, true. I hope Jets brass were just dealing with a post-Stanley stiffy over the size of the Kings and decided to draft that way for one year, learning from their mistakes. Jets definitely got Brett Sutter instead of Brandon.

One thing, though. Lots of posters on here and other parts of HF were pretty high on Sutter pre-draft. The esteemed Renegade Stylings even came on this board saying how lucky we were to get him and said Sutter went early, but just barely. Unless all these HF regulars are full of crap (which actually wouldn't surprise me as there lots of folks on HF who talk with authority but really know no more than the casual viewer) you gotta think there is some skill and potential hidden beneath all those PIMs and horrible +/-. Then again, he's been fallen in the depth chart behind a 16 year old center for 2nd line duty during a Mem Cup run so no tangible reason to believe he is any sort of playmaker/scorer.

Maybe he can skate up the ice and clear room for Yuen to skate pretty to the net in a couple of years.
I liked Sutter pre-draft. Definately had him mid-second round. I definitely had him ranked right around where he went. My rankings are posted here for all to see and laugh at anyways. But the fact is, when you are 19, even if you project as a grinder 3rd line C, you gotta be able to dominate the CHL. It is mighty mighty concerning how badly he is playing. I have not watched too much Blades, but it is concerning. However the crux of my argument has been based on IF Sutter fails to make pro hockey next year, which is a long way off. That's all I have been saying, it's still early with Sutter.

Also, I know I have been often accused of "speaking with authority" and "shutting down other opinions" etc on these boards, but all I am doing is stating my opinions based on my viewings/research/history with these players. Just because I don't say "IMO" after every sentence does not make that less so. So think of me as arrogant or whatever, but i am just stating my opinion. And it's all there if anyone wants to dig it up, good and bad. So whatever listen or don't I don't mind, but I'm on here to get others perspectives on things and share my own.

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12-18-2012, 09:24 PM
  #213
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Lowry with another one, making it 3-1 Broncos with the 3rd period heading to a close. 2G for him tonight so far.

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12-18-2012, 09:53 PM
  #214
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Lowry with another one, making it 3-1 Broncos with the 3rd period heading to a close. 2G for him tonight so far.
Mother of god, how many hatties has this kid got so far?

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12-18-2012, 09:58 PM
  #215
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Mother of god, how many hatties has this kid got so far?
He WILLS that puck in the net. Get in there! He's got at least 3 hatricks this year. Finished this game with 2G, and kept his goal scoring streak alive - now stands at 7 games. I think he's on the longest current point streak right now.

Its interesting watching him - definitely not as outright skilled as Sceifele, but other aspects of his game are as impressive or more so. Nice pick, for sure.

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12-18-2012, 10:01 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I liked Sutter pre-draft. Definately had him mid-second round. I definitely had him ranked right around where he went. My rankings are posted here for all to see and laugh at anyways. But the fact is, when you are 19, even if you project as a grinder 3rd line C, you gotta be able to dominate the CHL. It is mighty mighty concerning how badly he is playing. I have not watched too much Blades, but it is concerning. However the crux of my argument has been based on IF Sutter fails to make pro hockey next year, which is a long way off. That's all I have been saying, it's still early with Sutter.

Also, I know I have been often accused of "speaking with authority" and "shutting down other opinions" etc on these boards, but all I am doing is stating my opinions based on my viewings/research/history with these players. Just because I don't say "IMO" after every sentence does not make that less so. So think of me as arrogant or whatever, but i am just stating my opinion. And it's all there if anyone wants to dig it up, good and bad. So whatever listen or don't I don't mind, but I'm on here to get others perspectives on things and share my own.
Whoa now. I'm not referencing you in my post. Nor anyone else on HF Jets for that matter. I can see how it looks though with my post following yours. I've got nothing but love for Jets fans. I was taking a shot at some of the "scouts" on the main boards.

Your point on Sutter should be dominating in the WHL is duly noted. I see him as a workable cog in the Blades machine and I'm good with that because I'm cheering for the Blades. Putting on my rosy Jets lenses for a second and I'm not so stoked about Sutter. In fact, if the Jets do sign him and he goes pro then I could see him go the ECHL route for the first year which is obviously not want you want with a 2nd rounder.

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12-18-2012, 10:38 PM
  #217
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He WILLS that puck in the net. Get in there! He's got at least 3 hatricks this year. Finished this game with 2G, and kept his goal scoring streak alive - now stands at 7 games. I think he's on the longest current point streak right now.

Its interesting watching him - definitely not as outright skilled as Sceifele, but other aspects of his game are as impressive or more so. Nice pick, for sure.
Yeah. After tonight's 2 goal game Lowry is on a 7 game goal (12G) scoring streak and a 12 game point streak (20P). Pretty impressive stuff.

The kid had 12G and 16P in this December to remember.

The 3rd round appears to be a good one for the Jets.

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12-18-2012, 10:54 PM
  #218
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fwiw, Sutter's played a real solid shut down role for the Blades over the past 3-4 weeks. He's strong on faceoffs and is always agitating the guys he is assigned to shut down. Sucks that we wasted a 2nd rounder on him, true. I hope Jets brass were just dealing with a post-Stanley stiffy over the size of the Kings and decided to draft that way for one year, learning from their mistakes. Jets definitely got Brett Sutter instead of Brandon.

One thing, though. Lots of posters on here and other parts of HF were pretty high on Sutter pre-draft. The esteemed Renegade Stylings even came on this board saying how lucky we were to get him and said Sutter went early, but just barely. Unless all these HF regulars are full of crap (which actually wouldn't surprise me as there lots of folks on HF who talk with authority but really know no more than the casual viewer) you gotta think there is some skill and potential hidden beneath all those PIMs and horrible +/-. Then again, he's been fallen in the depth chart behind a 16 year old center for 2nd line duty during a Mem Cup run so no tangible reason to believe he is any sort of playmaker/scorer.

Maybe he can skate up the ice and clear room for Yuen to skate pretty to the net in a couple of years.
I hope the Jets fell in love with Sutter dreaming of (or better yet projectioning) Lucic like power forward upside rather than via a reactionary stiffy.

Either way, the pick isn't looking great.

I really didn't like the pick on draft day (and got crapped on for being vocal) because I didn't see much upside in him. The enthusiasm of others evened my keel, but the fact that his scoring has vanished is really disappointing to me.

Hopefully he can figure things out.

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12-18-2012, 11:27 PM
  #219
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Yeah. After tonight's 2 goal game Lowry is on a 7 game goal (12G) scoring streak and a 12 game point streak (20P). Pretty impressive stuff.

The kid had 12G and 16P in this December to remember.

The 3rd round appears to be a good one for the Jets.
And the 2nd has been the team's nightmare.

Hopefully with two picks in each we can rectify the problem.

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12-19-2012, 03:01 AM
  #220
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Found the Sutter fight vid:



Last edited by Sweech: 12-19-2012 at 03:34 AM.
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12-19-2012, 03:18 AM
  #221
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Found the Sutter fight vid:

isn't showing on mine... but I fixed it in the quote

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12-19-2012, 03:35 AM
  #222
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isn't showing on mine... but I fixed it in the quote
Thanks man, I always tend to muck that up.

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12-19-2012, 07:07 AM
  #223
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He WILLS that puck in the net. Get in there! He's got at least 3 hatricks this year. Finished this game with 2G, and kept his goal scoring streak alive - now stands at 7 games. I think he's on the longest current point streak right now.

Its interesting watching him - definitely not as outright skilled as Sceifele, but other aspects of his game are as impressive or more so. Nice pick, for sure.
Current scoring streaks in the WHL (I thought Lowry had more assists in this time period, but who am I to question the WHL):

PosnGPPlayerTeamFromToGoalsAssistsPoints
17Adam LowrySwift Current Broncos05-Dec-12present12214
27Matej StranskySaskatoon Blades05-Dec-1215-Dec-1210616
37Brendan LeipsicPortland Winterhawks28-Oct-1210-Nov-128816
46Mitch HolmbergSpokane Chiefs22-Sep-1210-Oct-129413
56Roberts LipsbergsSeattle Thunderbirds27-Nov-1207-Dec-129211

EDIT: I swear the WHL site is wrong - looking back through the game by game stats, Lowry has posted this over the last 12 games:

12GP 13G 7A 20PTS


Last edited by YWGinYYZ: 12-19-2012 at 07:34 AM.
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12-19-2012, 08:30 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
WHL uses birth year, not draft year. So in every respect, guys like Sutter are 19 year olds. They have had the exact same amount of time eligible to be in the WHL as a Scheifele at 19. They should be just as physically developed by the end of their 19 year old year as a regular age draftee who finishes their 19 year old year. The stupid NHL makes things confusing by making certain birthdays wait a year for being drafted, but in any other respect, Sutter is like an 11 draftee. IMO, he should be treated as such.

Remember though, I am not saying Sutter has to step into NHL. But he needs to be ready to play AHL or even ECHL, just like ANY other 20 year old. If you cannot even crack an AHL/ECHL roster (especially a talent poor St. John's lineup) at 20, you are done as an NHL prospect.
Makes sense. I re-looked at Eberle as a reference and noticed that he played two years after being drafted, but those were just his 3rd and 4th CHL seasons.

So they (Sutter and Eberle) both started in the CHL at 16, and even though this will just be Sutter's 1st year after being drafted, it's his 4th year in junior as he was drafted at 19 and Eberle at 18.

I was originally incorrect in thinking that guys like Eberle and Giroux that played two years after being drafted would get more games and practices as overall they would have the same amount of years in the CHL.

Correct?

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12-20-2012, 10:53 PM
  #225
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Scheifele is good in this haha


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