HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Sj-nyr

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-18-2012, 06:10 PM
  #51
CBJenga
Registered User
 
CBJenga's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,364
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Yes, our PK was so bad, good PK players like Winnik were going "what the **** kind of ****** pk system are you guys trying to run?".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
You're not listening; the Problem wasn't personnel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
The. Problem. With. The. Penalty kill. Was. Not. The. Players.


You guys, don't bother. This is the poster that said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Seems like an awful lot to give up for a defenseman that has 1-2 years left at best because he has slowed noticeably in the last 2yrs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Ithink he's slowed. I mean he never exactly had a stellar playoffs and he is 37ish isn't he?
And that the 5 game playoffs where he had 2 points was evidence of decline.

CBJenga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 06:53 PM
  #52
CanadienShark
Registered User
 
CanadienShark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,608
vCash: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJenga View Post
You guys, don't bother. This is the poster that said:





And that the 5 game playoffs where he had 2 points was evidence of decline.
A 5 game stretch is a sign of decline??

Especially after a solid season, which he started on a broken foot.

CanadienShark is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 08:52 PM
  #53
WTFetus
Moderator
Most popular
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 11,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
I don't think your gauranteed to have the three for 3 or 4 more years tho. They are signed till 2014 i think. And are you serious when you say the majority of the blame is on the coaches and not the players. Seems like the same players have not got the job done for years now. Cant find the right coach i guess.
Re-signing Thornton and Marleau won't be a problem at all. I already said the Sharks don't need Boyle. I also like how you still don't mention who you're trading Thornton and Marleau for that will make the team contenders for the next decade.
And I should really stop though. It's obvious that you don't watch the Sharks at all. Your posts are really no different than the "lool Thornton is a choker" posts.

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 09:39 PM
  #54
glenbuis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
The two pts in 5 games isn't a big factor in my suggesting a coming decline in Boyle. It is more to do with the fact that he is gonna be the better part of 38 the next time we see meaningful hockey. This is arguably a time when we see decline in hockey players. That and say injuries and a drop in production. As for not watching the Sharks, ever since Thornton went there in 05 you kinda wished that Thornton would have gotten one cup. Still do. But watching them for 7 yrs being a serious contender, i think you must ( and someone already did ) agree the window is closing. It is a fact that the sharks are the only team with a majority of their core is 33 and over. The only two other teams near by are Calgary and Tampa but their not that close. I feel that the sharks would be well served by at the very least getting some return now for Boyle and Marleau and keep Thornton.

glenbuis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 09:47 PM
  #55
WTFetus
Moderator
Most popular
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 11,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
The two pts in 5 games isn't a big factor in my suggesting a coming decline in Boyle. It is more to do with the fact that he is gonna be the better part of 38 the next time we see meaningful hockey. This is arguably a time when we see decline in hockey players. That and say injuries and a drop in production. As for not watching the Sharks, ever since Thornton went there in 05 you kinda wished that Thornton would have gotten one cup. Still do. But watching them for 7 yrs being a serious contender, i think you must ( and someone already did ) agree the window is closing. It is a fact that the sharks are the only team with a majority of their core is 33 and over. The only two other teams near by are Calgary and Tampa but their not that close. I feel that the sharks would be well served by at the very least getting some return now for Boyle and Marleau and keep Thornton.
I hardly consider Boyle a "core" player now. The D is set with or without him. That leaves Thornton and Marleau the only players over 33, and Thornton and Marleau's playstyles are the types that don't diminish in a year or two. They'll be top-line players for the next couple of years, and great 2nd liners for the years afterwards.
And really, your "7 year" post just further emphasizes that you don't watch the Sharks at all. They weren't really true "Cup contenders" until 08-09 to 10-11. The first year, they chocked to Anaheim but their team wasn't built to go far (no depth). The two after, they got to the WCF in both years.

Seriously, you're just pulling stuff out of thin air. I ask you again, who are they going to trade Marleau for that will make them "contenders" for years. He has a NMC, DW isn't going to ask him to waive it, he gets to choose which team he wants to go on, and that team has to have the said player that will supposedly make the team contenders for years. Your argument has absolutely no substance. It's not that big of a surprise though. Looking at your previous points, it doesn't look like any of your arguments have substance.

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 09:51 PM
  #56
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,387
vCash: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
The two pts in 5 games isn't a big factor in my suggesting a coming decline in Boyle. It is more to do with the fact that he is gonna be the better part of 38 the next time we see meaningful hockey. This is arguably a time when we see decline in hockey players. That and say injuries and a drop in production. As for not watching the Sharks, ever since Thornton went there in 05 you kinda wished that Thornton would have gotten one cup. Still do. But watching them for 7 yrs being a serious contender, i think you must ( and someone already did ) agree the window is closing. It is a fact that the sharks are the only team with a majority of their core is 33 and over. The only two other teams near by are Calgary and Tampa but their not that close. I feel that the sharks would be well served by at the very least getting some return now for Boyle and Marleau and keep Thornton.
1) Nobody's arguing that the Sharks window is closing. We're arguing about this past season. Calm down.

2) Since when is 38 specifically the time when we see decline in hockey players? Boyle is certainly leaving his days as an elite #1 defenseman, but he's absolutely top-2 and he doesn't need to be #1 anymore, now that Burns has earned the job.

3) We'd take you more seriously if you knew anything about the Sharks. If you did, you'd know that Marleau is retiring a Shark unless he chooses not to, which he won't.

4) Marleau, Thornton, and Boyle do not constitue the majority of our core. Burns and Vlasic are more "core" than Boyle is at this point, and then you have Pavelski and Couture.

5) 33 is an awfully arbitrary age to cut off. What about the Canucks? Their entire core besides Kesler (28) and Edler (26) is over 30. The Sedins, Burrows, Bieksa, Hamhuis, and Luongo. Kesler and Edler are their Pavelski and Burns (presuming they can re-sign Edler), but they don't have a Couture or a Vlasic who are under 25. In fact, the Canucks are a much older team than the Sharks. They don't have a single significant player 25 or under on their roster.

TheJuxtaposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 10:32 PM
  #57
glenbuis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
I didn't know we were arguing. I thought it was just kind of a debate. Don't worry, Ill relax. I'm calm. I won't pull anything out of the air. I mistakingly thought that a bit of the core of your team is getting up there a bit. My apologies. Now let's discuss this in a civil manner.


Last edited by slocal: 12-19-2012 at 02:00 AM. Reason: don't insult
glenbuis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 10:34 PM
  #58
Dusk Soldier
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,247
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillermiller89 View Post
If the cap drops to $60 million, the Sharks will need to move a player or two
And the rangers won't?

Dusk Soldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 11:06 PM
  #59
glenbuis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
Way back in this thread i was told by bigwillie, Boyle is now the games premier playoff performing defenceman, but now he is not part of the top 5 core. I thought he would be in sj's top 5. ( funnything - go figure that the games premier playoff performing defenceman wouldn't crack ur top 5 ) Add to this that it is possible that all 3 could be lured away for NOTHING after next year. Consider if you would what assets, if they were willing to move, could you get for Boyle and Marleau.

glenbuis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 11:15 PM
  #60
Arrch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NorCal
Country: United States
Posts: 4,331
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Way back in this thread i was told by bigwillie, Boyle is now the games premier playoff performing defenceman, but now he is not part of the top 5 core. I thought he would be in sj's top 5. ( funnything - go figure that the games premier playoff performing defenceman wouldn't crack ur top 5 )
A team's core doesn't necessarily consist of their best players. Your core is who you build around; you don't build around older players.

Quote:
Add to this that it is possible that all 3 could be lured away for NOTHING after next year. Consider if you would what assets, if they were willing to move, could you get for Boyle and Marleau.
You're right. They could leave for absolutely nothing. But until I see a proposal that makes sense, your argument has no substance. If the best we can get is MacArthur + 3rd for Marleau, do you really think we should take that kind of return on the off-chance that Marleau, who is fimrly rooted in San Jose, decides to bail?

Arrch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 11:18 PM
  #61
WTFetus
Moderator
Most popular
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 11,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Way back in this thread i was told by bigwillie, Boyle is now the games premier playoff performing defenceman, but now he is not part of the top 5 core. I thought he would be in sj's top 5. ( funnything - go figure that the games premier playoff performing defenceman wouldn't crack ur top 5 ) Add to this that it is possible that all 3 could be lured away for NOTHING after next year. Consider if you would what assets, if they were willing to move, could you get for Boyle and Marleau.
There is a difference between a good player and a core player. Look at players like Semin and Wideman. They were 2nd and 3rd on the team in scoring, but I doubt many Capitals' fans considered them "core". Core players are those you build around. With Burns, Vlasic, and Demers along with the fact that Boyle is 35+, I don't consider him core anymore.

As for the assets. Like I've been saying earlier, I'd trade Boyle for a speedy 2nd liner or a 3rd liner+. It's simply unreasonable to trade Marleau because of his NMC. It's also unnecessary to trade Marleau since the return you'll get back for him will make the team worse. This goes back to how your original argument is so flawed. You continue to speak hypotheticals without going into specifics.

Really, you're only proving that you know absolutely nothing about the team. I can pretty much guarantee you that Marleau and Thornton won't leave willingly. If the team wants to re-sign them, they'll stay. It's the same reason as to why Doan re-signed with Phoenix. Their roots are here, they don't want to go anywhere else.

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 11:53 PM
  #62
glenbuis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
Imagine this A team's core doesn't necessarily consist of their best players . Im probalbly wrong i guess to, if i think that there are a few shark fans out there who were not totally impressed by Marleau's performance last year. I guess rather than saying the core well go with the 5 best players on your team. They are still up there in age. But you know what, they are all set and nice and comfy there and wouldn't leave. As an outsider, I am starting to doubt whether the three we have spoke of can lead this team to the cup and how it is a shame that you could not cash in on some of the remaining valu.

glenbuis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 11:58 PM
  #63
Machinehead
★★★★
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: United States
Posts: 34,113
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Imagine this A team's core doesn't necessarily consist of their best players.
There's some truth to that. If you were to ask me to name the Rangers core Ryan Callahan is the 2nd player I'd name after Henrik Lundqvist, but I could probably name 6 Rangers more talented than Ryan Callahan.

Machinehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 12:08 AM
  #64
glenbuis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
One of you has said that you would trade Boyle for a speedy 2nd liner or a third liner plus. Lets say it was kreider and brian boyle say for Dan boyle and a third. Then if u asked marleau to waive and you got a player or two of similar quality in return, (I gotta b careful mentioning names because people get sensitive in these threads when you don't respect their players enough), so maybe one of yous could suggest what marleau's valu would be as a trade example. Would the future of the Sharks be brighter with or without these additions.

glenbuis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 12:11 AM
  #65
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,387
vCash: 567
Marleau has an NMC and will not waive. I don't understand how you can't get this through your head.

TheJuxtaposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 12:19 AM
  #66
glenbuis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
If i was talking rangers core, it would be Richards, Callahan, Nash, Stall/Macdonagh and Lundquist. The age of this group is a bit younger and the need for a retrofit so to speak not as alarming.

glenbuis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 12:29 AM
  #67
glenbuis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
Well again i will repeat if you could get him to waive it but since you cant, thats to bad. When his contract ends and he is no longer at 6.9 million per and you have the oppurtunity to sign a different free agent for that money, you might be able to find one that will contribute more and be younger. But then he (marleau) will have to uproot or be not as comfy so thats no good.


Last edited by glenbuis: 12-19-2012 at 12:42 AM.
glenbuis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 02:21 AM
  #68
Mafoofoo
:facepalm:
 
Mafoofoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 12,969
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
If i was talking rangers core, it would be Richards(32), Callahan(27), Nash(28), Staal(25)/Macdonagh(23) and Lundquist(30). The age of this group is a bit younger and the need for a retrofit so to speak not as alarming.
Sharks core: Thornton(33), Marleau(33), Couture (23), Vlasic(25), Burns(27), Pavelski(28).

Wow that core is soooooooooo old and most def needs to be remade. Especially compared to the core you listed. Come on buddy give me a break.

Mafoofoo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 02:24 AM
  #69
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,387
vCash: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Well again i will repeat if you could get him to waive it but since you cant, thats to bad. When his contract ends and he is no longer at 6.9 million per and you have the oppurtunity to sign a different free agent for that money, you might be able to find one that will contribute more and be younger. But then he (marleau) will have to uproot or be not as comfy so thats no good.
Bud, when was the last time the San Jose Sharks signed an impact UFA younger than 33?

That's right, NEVER.

TheJuxtaposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 07:23 AM
  #70
glenbuis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
This issue seems to be a somewhat sensitive issue. Ill retreat and wish yous the best. Id just hate to see them be like a Calgary 2.0

glenbuis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 08:23 AM
  #71
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 32,139
vCash: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
This issue seems to be a somewhat sensitive issue. Ill retreat and wish yous the best. Id just hate to see them be like a Calgary 2.0
With the youth they have on their roster and how good they are, they don't have to worry about that.

Pinkfloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 01:41 PM
  #72
magic school bus
***********
 
magic school bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,703
vCash: 1965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
There's some truth to that. If you were to ask me to name the Rangers core Ryan Callahan is the 2nd player I'd name after Henrik Lundqvist, but I could probably name 6 Rangers more talented than Ryan Callahan.
Exactly. The same way you might say Stepan or Krieder is a bigger part of the future plans of NYR than a guy like Gaborik (who is obviously the better player now).

magic school bus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 08:54 PM
  #73
glenbuis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
okay


Last edited by glenbuis: 12-19-2012 at 10:37 PM.
glenbuis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 09:51 PM
  #74
Gunnin54
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 308
vCash: 500
Sorry to all the sharks fans that want marleau out but I'm one of the fans who wants to see him and joe retire with us

Gunnin54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-20-2012, 06:32 AM
  #75
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
This I wouldn't argue with.

Does Boyle make them a somewhat better team? Yes he can.

The propensity to add big name players have not been via the trade route aside from the recent Nash acquisition.

Aside from that, the big name guys they have acquired have been via Free Agency and after the Nash trade, the Rangers need to keep all the young and cheap NHL Talent they can get their hands on.

Hagelin, Boyle and Stralman individually can be moved, although I would have a real hard time moving Hagelin. Defensively responsible forwards with offensive ability and top 3 NHL Speed) are hard to come by.

Trading youth like this for an over the hill (still effective) offensive defenceman is something the pre-2005 Rangers made all the time.

In a capped world, it's not a smart play.
Concur 2x.
Boyle is a luxury we can't afford for depth,
Hagelin not around long enough to show us his best yet; he has potential and shouldn't be moved unless there is major upgrade in the big picture, not a nice add on for now.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.