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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part X: Is There Any Hope? Edition

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Old
12-19-2012, 08:41 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
I would want them to win it. What do I care if a Western conference team is good? Would you prefer that Pitt takes another #1? Or that the Devils team that is out of prospects and with a lot of UFAs be able to rebuild itself with a superstar drafted first overall? Would it be good if the Isles got another #1 to add to their already very strong young core (their forwards were already good and this year they drafted another 7 defensemen)? Do you want the #1 to go to Philthy? Boston? Washington?

But the biggest reason I'd want CBJ to win it is that we'll get the #1 overall pick in every subsequent round. I'd much rather get a #31 in the second round where we can get a Skjei-like talent than if we get a #59 in the second round where our guy has statistically a 12-13% chance of playing in the NHL.
All good points.

Also going to add, with the cap coming down, and one year remaining on his deal, its also a strong and realistic possibility Gaborik gets dealt at the draft to secure a top-15 pick. Draft is in NJ. Lots of Rangers fans will be present. Including myself. It would be the time to both make a smart hockey decision and make a splash.

The Rangers especially are going to have to keep relying on pumping talent onto the roster from the farm system. The cap coming down. And most of the core needing new contracts. Nash is locked in for a long time so there is a primary scorer.

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12-19-2012, 09:06 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
All good points.

Also going to add, with the cap coming down, and one year remaining on his deal, its also a strong and realistic possibility Gaborik gets dealt at the draft to secure a top-15 pick. Draft is in NJ. Lots of Rangers fans will be present. Including myself. It would be the time to both make a smart hockey decision and make a splash.

The Rangers especially are going to have to keep relying on pumping talent onto the roster from the farm system. The cap coming down. And most of the core needing new contracts. Nash is locked in for a long time so there is a primary scorer.
Yes, Im sure teams will be chomping at the bit to give away a top 15 pick and take on Gaborik's $7M cap hit.

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Old
12-19-2012, 09:09 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yes, Im sure teams will be chomping at the bit to give away a top 15 pick and take on Gaborik's $7M cap hit.
It is a only a one year deal. Sure there will be bidders. There always are. Especially if he has a good year ( cough cough...)

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12-19-2012, 09:11 AM
  #54
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It is a only a one year deal. Sure there will be bidders. There always are. Especially if he has a good year ( cough cough...)
Yes, all the more reason to give away a top 15 pick I suppose?

C'mon, these things just simply do not happen in today's NHL. They'll happen even less when the new CBA comes down.

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12-19-2012, 09:18 AM
  #55
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If there is no season and a contender lands a 15ish pick I could definitely see it.

Gabby was 3rd in the league in goals last year. There will be a market if it comes to it.

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12-19-2012, 09:19 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
I would want them to win it. What do I care if a Western conference team is good? Would you prefer that Pitt takes another #1? Or that the Devils team that is out of prospects and with a lot of UFAs be able to rebuild itself with a superstar drafted first overall? Would it be good if the Isles got another #1 to add to their already very strong young core (their forwards were already good and this year they drafted another 7 defensemen)? Do you want the #1 to go to Philthy? Boston? Washington?

But the biggest reason I'd want CBJ to win it is that we'll get the #1 overall pick in every subsequent round. I'd much rather get a #31 in the second round where we can get a Skjei-like talent than if we get a #59 in the second round where our guy has statistically a 12-13% chance of playing in the NHL.
If CBJ wins the lottery it would not affect our pick, I think you mean if NYR win the lottery. In that case CBJ would have the #1 pick from us, but we would not have the #31, we would have the #60 in the second round. The draft would follow a snake format if the order was determined by lottery. We would get the #1 pick in every odd numbered round and the #30 pick in even numbered rounds.

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12-19-2012, 09:20 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
If there is no season and a contender lands a 15ish pick I could definitely see it.

Gabby was 3rd in the league in goals last year. There will be a market if it comes to it.
Hes also coming off of major shoulder surgery.

Im just amazed how easily some fans think it is to acquire a top draft pick. When has a team willingly traded a top 10-15 pick for a big money player in the cap era?

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12-19-2012, 10:01 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hes also coming off of major shoulder surgery.

Im just amazed how easily some fans think it is to acquire a top draft pick. When has a team willingly traded a top 10-15 pick for a big money player in the cap era?
Rick Nash for AA, BD, and a 1st Round pick > a top 10-15 pick.

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12-19-2012, 10:10 AM
  #59
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*sigh* apparently Evander Kane tweeted this photo last night...


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12-19-2012, 10:18 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hes also coming off of major shoulder surgery.

Im just amazed how easily some fans think it is to acquire a top draft pick. When has a team willingly traded a top 10-15 pick for a big money player in the cap era?
Nashville traded a 1st round pick for Paul Gaustad and a 4th at the deadline last year. It wasn't a 10-15 pick, but Gaustad was a pure rental and nowhere near the offensive player that Gabby is.

Look at how much philly got for Carter and Richards, both on very long term contracts.

It's also possible that we would send something else back the other way too. It doesn't necessarily have to be straight up for Gabby.

Yes, there are a lot of IFs here. There has to be a team that wants him. He has to be healthy. He has to have a good year so his value is high. He has to waive his NTC. All of that (plus the new CBA) was why I was against adding long term salary to our cap. Everyone's response was: we'll just trade Gabby. Easier said than done.

We may end up having to trade Gabby (or worse, having to lose someone we REALLY don't want to lose) without ever getting to have Nash and Gabby play together, making the deal pretty much a loss (we gave up assets so we can swap Gabby for Nash, which is a minor upgrade at best). And there were people claiming we could afford Doan, lol.

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12-19-2012, 10:19 AM
  #61
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*sigh* apparently Evander Kane tweeted this photo last night...

Yeah that certainly helps the players case....

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12-19-2012, 10:23 AM
  #62
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*sigh* apparently Evander Kane tweeted this photo last night...

Who cares?

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12-19-2012, 10:42 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Nashville traded a 1st round pick for Paul Gaustad and a 4th at the deadline last year. It wasn't a 10-15 pick, but Gaustad was a pure rental and nowhere near the offensive player that Gabby is.

Look at how much philly got for Carter and Richards, both on very long term contracts.

It's also possible that we would send something else back the other way too. It doesn't necessarily have to be straight up for Gabby.

Yes, there are a lot of IFs here. There has to be a team that wants him. He has to be healthy. He has to have a good year so his value is high. He has to waive his NTC. All of that (plus the new CBA) was why I was against adding long term salary to our cap. Everyone's response was: we'll just trade Gabby. Easier said than done.

We may end up having to trade Gabby (or worse, having to lose someone we REALLY don't want to lose) without ever getting to have Nash and Gabby play together, making the deal pretty much a loss (we gave up assets so we can swap Gabby for Nash, which is a minor upgrade at best). And there were people claiming we could afford Doan, lol.
Good points.

My issue is that people seem to be under some sort of illusion that we're going to be able to get rid of Gaborik without taking any salary back AND acquiring a top draft pick. Its just not going to happen. I dont think something like that has ever happened in the cap era.

If you want that coveted top tier 1st rounder, you can expect to take some garbage back, which wouldnt help the cap situation all that much.

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12-19-2012, 10:42 AM
  #64
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Who cares?
Personally, I dont.

But its awfully, awfully tone deaf to whats going on right now.

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12-19-2012, 10:48 AM
  #65
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Who cares?
Admittedly there are people reading more into this, and caring more about this than necessary. However, I do understand where they're coming from. Matt Barnaby was up in arms on Twitter this morning about it, and he has some points too.

Quote:
Now we know why Gary Bettman speaks for his owners, fines them, and has full control over the cba negotiations.
https://twitter.com/MattBarnaby3636/...05112533008385

He's not wrong.

The players and the owners are fighting over money, do you really think it's in good taste to tweet a picture of stacks on stacks of cash like it's nothing to you? It put a bad taste in my mouth towards the players this morning, and I haven't picked sides in this brawl since September.

If Jeremy Jacobs, or Dolan, tweeted a picture of themselves swimming in a bathtub full of money, what do you think the Union's reaction on Twitter would have been?

I care because it goes to show you what they're truly fighting for; themselves. The players (some) don't play for the fans anymore, they (some) play for the money.

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12-19-2012, 10:51 AM
  #66
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The NHL wants a $60M cap in 13-14 which is 7 months away if there is a season in 12-13. The NHL has proposed players making above $105,000 counting against the cap starting ASAP. No compliance buyouts. Its less than $60M with the NHL contracts above $105,000 AHL.

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12-19-2012, 10:53 AM
  #67
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There was a conditional pick included in that Nash deal for if the Rangers did not make it to the SC Finals this year I believe. What was that pick?

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12-19-2012, 10:58 AM
  #68
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There was a conditional pick included in that Nash deal for if the Rangers did not make it to the SC Finals this year I believe. What was that pick?
Columbus' 2013 3rd round pick

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12-19-2012, 11:50 AM
  #69
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The NHL wants a $60M cap in 13-14 which is 7 months away if there is a season in 12-13. The NHL has proposed players making above $105,000 counting against the cap starting ASAP. No compliance buyouts. Its less than $60M with the NHL contracts above $105,000 AHL.
Can't see why Bettman is being so strict with these transition issues. Does he know how many of his own owners he is going to be putting in a bad spot just to get under the cap? Funny thing is that Jacobs would be in the worst spot. $57 million committed to 16 players in '13-14. LOL. Good luck with that.

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12-19-2012, 11:50 AM
  #70
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Columbus' 2013 3rd round pick
Which will give us four 3rd round picks this year. Nashville's, Florida's, Columbus', and ours. Gorton spoke earlier this year about the 2013 draft looking like a very strong one and that the additional picks should give us more flexibility in moving around the board. No 5th or 7th round picks this year.

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12-19-2012, 12:00 PM
  #71
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Can't see why Bettman is being so strict with these transition issues. Does he know how many of his own owners he is going to be putting in a bad spot just to get under the cap? Funny thing is that Jacobs would be in the worst spot. $57 million committed to 16 players in '13-14. LOL. Good luck with that.
With no goalie under contract. Rask is a free agent.

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12-19-2012, 12:07 PM
  #72
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I liked the Nash deal and I am not upset that it was finalized but I am a bit worried about where that pick will end up......

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12-19-2012, 12:19 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
If there is no season and a contender lands a 15ish pick I could definitely see it.

Gabby was 3rd in the league in goals last year. There will be a market if it comes to it.

Saying there will be a market for him, is putting it mildly imo. There would be HUGE interest and exceptional offers league-wide.

Most teams in the league can use a high-end forward who's not only capable of scoring goals, but also creating offensive opportunity's. One that isn't a defensive liability either.

I think some people may be underavaluing Gaborik a tad.

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12-19-2012, 12:20 PM
  #74
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The NHL wants a $60M cap in 13-14 which is 7 months away if there is a season in 12-13. The NHL has proposed players making above $105,000 counting against the cap starting ASAP. No compliance buyouts. Its less than $60M with the NHL contracts above $105,000 AHL.

At least 20 out of 30 teams would be in cap hell if this happens. Players will be dumped for nothing. If before, you were the only one trying to deal away one well-paid superstar, now there will suddenly be 30-35 players making over $4 million on the market all together.

There would be only about a half a dozen teams with cap room to purchase $4-8 million players. However, the very reason they are so far under the old cap is that they are not profitable and cannot take on more payroll. The Isles flat-out cannot afford a $60 payroll, no matter what the cap is.

There might be 3-4 well-paid guys moving from one team to another, but the reality is that most teams would be unable to come under the cap no matter what unless there's some kind of a buy-out. Plus, with a massive number of teams trying to get rid of players and only a few teams able to take them, these guys will have little to no value, maybe even negative value.


Everyone sits there talking about being "for players" or "for owners", but how about being for the game? How is it good for the game to have most of the teams in a cap hell, trying to give away top-6 players for free?


Last edited by Beacon: 12-19-2012 at 12:27 PM.
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12-19-2012, 12:32 PM
  #75
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Who cares?
I don't. Not really. But given the circumstances it's a bit of a ****** move from a person that marinates in douchenfreude.

"The word derives from ****** (obnoxious, offensive person) and freude (joy). Literally: "joy of being oneself, ..."

courtesy Ace of Spades.

Edit - Violated my sabbatical from this thread. Could not help myself.

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